Prince Level Challenge...

[AAHZ]

OK here goes... Prince level has ALWAYS given me a hard time. Whether by war or by peace i ALWAYS struggle on Prince level. So I just recently bought Warlords, patched it to 2.08, and started a game... The point is to find out what im doing wrong, if ANYONE else can figure out Prince level (and i know most of you can), and to dig me out of the hole i ALWAYS start in.

I chose Carthage (or the Carts i like to say) because i like their traits of Charismatic and Financial: also 2 areas of the game where i struggle (finance and happyness). Its a marathon game, large fractal map, and Prince level obviously.

Ive so far have 3 cities, copper, and access to the ocean. ive so far met the Zulus and the Greeks. The greeks founded buddhism and Shaka soon joined him. We are all trading... but i have YET to get the darn religion! So i went the library/theatre route for culture for now. my tech isnt that bad, but because i was a perfectionist this time, i didnt over-expand... and that led to the Greeks building a city right near my borders. Shaka is the largest of us 3. We are all friends... FOR NOW.

ANY help ANYONE could give me would be appreciated. I have attached my save game file...
THANKS... PIECE!

[Swiss Pauli]

Had a quick look and here are some comments:

- Marathon speed is not so good for learning. Normal is better because of the relatively quicker speed of research. And because you'll be able to play more games in the same play time...

- Research is confused: with Carthage, Bronzeworking would have been a stronger opening than Hunting. I would have opened with Agri - AH - Bronze, building a workboat first to scout, followed by a worker. Also, you don't need Drama at all; Mysticism is fine for early border pops, especially as it gives +1 happy to CHM civs.

- Military: your units are idling in your cities when they should be out busting fog so that you can send out settlers unescorted. Don't pre-promote units, especially defensive promos like CG; units don't unfortify (any more) when promoted, so you can choose depending on the situation.

- Build order: Granaries are vital buildings because of the efficient growth they give and they should be whipped at the right time to allow pop re-growth soon after completion (see attached save). Hadrumetum didn't need to pop its borders, so a workboat should have been build 1 and probably build 2.

- Expansion: too slow. I've marked some possible cities and you should put units nearby to clear fog and grab them.

- Strategy: you don't seem to have a plan. Check Vel's strategy threads and look up approaches like the Philo slingshot. Aiming at certain medium term goals will help you make better choices in your play.

- Finally: try the opening again (trying to avoid using the knowledge you have from the first attempt) and compare the results.

[AAHZ]

Swiss Pauli,

i took your advise and started that particular game back from the begining. i concentrated on expansion, and all the other advise you gave me... and im actually doing good! i now have 4 cities... have horses, am NOT cut off by the greeks, and my score is respectable! i have attached a screenshot of the NEW games progress. THANKS again, and any further advise from ANYONE would be appreciated ;)

[joncnunn]

One note I'd make is that the value of Hunting as the first tech to reserach is dependent upon the map. The more land there is (on your landmass), the more useful it is as the first tech for exploration.

On religion as any civ that doesn't start with Mystism, with Blake's mod the earlyist practical one is Judism, and often Confucism is a better bet.

[jbp26]

this isnt quite what i meant in the other thread. while posting your save games for critique is a good way to learn, it works a little different in apolyton university. the way its typically done is to post a save from the very first turn. then everybody plays the game from the same start and posts a report of how they did it. its very interesting to see all of the different strategies unfold, and to be able to compare them. also while marathon mode is good its a little slow for comparison purposes. id say epic.

[AAHZ]

ok... sorry jbp26,

i have the autosave from the first turn from this particular game. sorry for "breaking the rules" so to speak... i will post it if you like, but i DO believe i see what i have been doing wrong. ;)

[Dominae]

Just looking at the screenshot from your second game: you could use more Workers.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by AAHZ
ok... sorry jbp26,

i have the autosave from the first turn from this particular game. sorry for "breaking the rules" so to speak... i will post it if you like, but i DO believe i see what i have been doing wrong. ;)

its not breaking the rules. by all means, post the save, i'll play through it. im far from great, but i can usually win on prince. maybe we can learn from each other.

[AAHZ]

jbp26... ok here is begining of that particular game of mine. i will also include a screenshot of my CURRENT progress as well. Again, sorry about the marathon thing :)

[AAHZ]

here is the screenshot...

my workers are idle because ive finished working on every available terrain in my lands. im seriously thinking about wiping out the greeks :evilgrin:

[Swiss Pauli]

More tips: Game 2 Hadrumetum is poorly sited - coast is your friend. I don't know if you intentionally move your city sites from game 1, but they were both perfectly good, so I hope not. Ands you've also failed to put a city on fish/iron site (by the scoreboard on the screenie).

Also, you don't seem to have thought about how you plan to win. Finally, Marathon speed is unbalanced in favour of warmongering. Try Epic if you wan't a more, er, epic feel that normal gives.

PS: No idea what happened to my save.

[AAHZ]

Swiss Pauli,

you have just hit the nail on the head... City placement is a HUGE problem for me, and often is the difference in whether i win or lose a particular game.

Also I will not play Marathon for training purposes anymore (after this game.)

Winning IS the biggest problem of them all for me, as i do NOT seem to have a clear strategy on Prince Level. You see on Noble, i just won by diplomacy or space race every time so i carried this, and other, bad ideas over to Prince level. I AM going to try the warmongering tactic though, just to see if is effective for me. That will be at least the START of a plan... ;)

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by jbp26


its not breaking the rules. by all means, post the save, i'll play through it. im far from great, but i can usually win on prince. maybe we can learn from each other.


it's always the same rule


just how we interpret them...


dont worry about it

[Kataphraktoi]

Originally posted by AAHZ
Swiss Pauli,

you have just hit the nail on the head... City placement is a HUGE problem for me, and often is the difference in whether i win or lose a particular game.

Also I will not play Marathon for training purposes anymore (after this game.)

Winning IS the biggest problem of them all for me, as i do NOT seem to have a clear strategy on Prince Level. You see on Noble, i just won by diplomacy or space race every time so i carried this, and other, bad ideas over to Prince level. I AM going to try the warmongering tactic though, just to see if is effective for me. That will be at least the START of a plan... ;)

Turn on the resource marker for one(bottom right ? button) That marks out your city spots for you(anywhere within two tiles of a food bonus)

[AAHZ]

wow this thread is from March. i had forgotton about it :lol:

thanks for the advice, Kataphraktoi. I have also seriously gotton a lot better at the game since this thread. BtS AI changes a few things as well.

I will post a BtS game, if i feel so compelled, with my all-new strategy that I am in the process of developing.

[Kataphraktoi]

Whoops i didnt look at the date :D