Odds and ends.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Talking to snoopy on irc.

Things we might want other than the 'standard':

Civolopedia entry
leader
adjective
noun
etc.

And team flag...


I got ideas on the latter. This is some famous pirate flags. I'm thinking the upper right one just screams "Mercenary", myself...

[UnOrthOdOx]

Snoopy already worked up an example of it in game:

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=51359_KnifeText.jpg>

[polarnomad]

Definitely am for the flag you are suggesting. Looks super! :)

[polarnomad]

Just a thought after doing some googling in my free time...

Leader: Georg von Frundsberg
Civ description: Todesengel Landsknecht Fähnlein
Short description: Landsknecht Fähnlein
Civ adjective: Landsknecht

http://www.st-max.org/images/Georg_von_Frundsberg_c.jpg
(Georg von Frundsberg)

http://www.st-mike.org/groups/german/
http://st-max.org/todesengel_main.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_von_Frundsberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknechte

What do y'all think?
:cool:

http://www.theweebsite.com/garb/norris/n3_p07a.gif
Landsknecht garb!!! :cute:

[troglodyte]

I also like the flag UnO suggested!

Why is it left-handed?

[rush]

Great .... the arm is just the right size. :)

[polarnomad]

No comments on the suggestion to use the Landsknechts to represent the merc team? :( They were some of most feared mercenaries of the Renaissance...

[troglodyte]

Sorry, P.nomad, Landsknecht's fine by me.

Have you given some thought to a team motto?

[polarnomad]

Not yet. If people in the team like the suggestion for leader etc, then I will definitely put some thought into it. :)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Possible Team motto:

Victory is reserved for those willing to pay it's price - Sun Tzu

Though:
"Landsknechts are as good as the gold you pay them, and last about as long as the beer"

is also quite pleasing. :D

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by troglodyte
I also like the flag UnO suggested!

Why is it left-handed?

Because I am! :doitnow!:

I don't know actually. Hadn't notice. But then it would seem natural to me.

It's Captain Thomas Tew's flag, perhaps he was? He's described as an 'especially violent, wicked, and ill-disposed' person.

[troglodyte]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
'especially violent, wicked, and ill-disposed' person.

Sounds like my last performance review...

Going to be tough to get the motto's around the flag/coat of arms (even if they aren't in Latin)

While' we're all making suggestions, how about "Testiculos tene, mens et cor capiuntur" (Grab their balls, their hearts and minds will follow).

I knew my ten years of Latin wouldn't be wasted...

[inamirrordarkly]

I like that flag. Would it be possible to change our group icon to match?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Doubtful. That's up to Mark G though.

If we can get it down to 15x19 or whatever, we can ask.

[polarnomad]

Originally posted by troglodyte

While' we're all making suggestions, how about "Testiculos tene, mens et cor capiuntur" (Grab their balls, their hearts and minds will follow).

I knew my ten years of Latin wouldn't be wasted...

You make your latin teacher proud! :lol:

[Kloreep]

Flag is great. :b:

The Landsknecht sound good. :b:

For our motto, I like the Sun Tzu quote. Straight to the point.

As far as changing the civgroup icon, I tried resizing the arm/sword flag; but at least with IRFanView, the sword doesn't seem to come out too well.

[polarnomad]

I tried to mess with the image in Gimp and got about the same result as Kloreep. There's just too much visual info that gets lost.

[Nikolai]

Proposed flag is great:b:
Never heard of the Landsknecht before, but if it pleases you:)
And Sun Tzu all the way:b:

[Kloreep]

I tried rotating the sword around and chopping off the arm & hilt, which produces a more distinct result, though it's fairly far afield from the original image:

[troglodyte]

Actually Kloreep's first image looks great on my screen (1600x1200). The fingers are a bit indistinct, but on an image almost the size of a smiley we can overlook it.

I go with the Sun Tzu quote - polarnomad sounds like he can translate that into German if necessary!

By the way, must have been hell to fight in that garb. All those colours, gives new meaning to the phrase "If you're going to fight - clash!"

[polarnomad]

Originally posted by troglodyte
Actually Kloreep's first image looks great on my screen (1600x1200). The fingers are a bit indistinct, but on an image almost the size of a smiley we can overlook it.

Big screen! :unworthy: Must be nice not to have to do so much scrolling about when you fire up CivIV.

Originally posted by troglodyte
I go with the Sun Tzu quote - polarnomad sounds like he can translate that into German if necessary!

Ummm... Well, I spoke German fluently, but I haven't used it properly in about 18 years, so...

*looks sheepishly at his feet

I don't think I'm up to the task. :( (Unless you don't mind mistakes...)

[polarnomad]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Never heard of the Landsknecht before, but if it pleases you:)

It's more important to me that everyone here likes the idea. I'm easy as far what we call ourselves.

BTW we could change the "Todesengel" in "Todesengel Landsknecht Fähnlein" to something that might more appropriately represent our team if someone has a preference. I just thought "Angel of Death" sounded neat when I bumped into the Guild's website that uses the same name.

[troglodyte]

[SIZE=1] Big screen! :unworthy:

Oh, it's just standard ICT technique: ;) Instead of making the system work better they just give you fancier hardware and better interfaces and ergonomics in the hope you won't notice that they didn't address the fundamentals.

Trogs addressing the ceiling: If any of you company guys are watching this, I am not going to wrap myself around that weirdo crounching kneeling stool thingy to use my terminal. I want a desk that I can stretch my legs out under. :doitnow!:

[polarnomad]

ICT?

[troglodyte]

Originally posted by polarnomad
ICT?

Information & Communication Technology (latest buzzword round here)

[Nikolai]

ICT, latest? First time I heard the word was sometime round the end of the last millennium.:p It's quite some time since I heard it last time now, it's gone out of use.;)

[troglodyte]

Hey, I just call them what they want to be called. What are the latest names for those sections?

[Nikolai]

Not sure actually, they haven't used such terms much since the dotcom failure some years ago.:)

[polarnomad]

Don't listen to Nikolai... he's Norwegian! :tongue: ;)

And since we're already so far off topic it hurts, BTW Trogs why does it say "(close enough)" next to your location?

[troglodyte]

So what's the story? I take it we have
1) more or less(?) accepted the Landsknecht civ descriptions (despite the horrible clothing), although some debate about the Todesengel bit remains(?) - no comments against, anyway
2) accepted that particular Sun Tzu motto,
3) accepted the flag,
4) the jury is out on Kloreep's smaller images and we don't know if any change will be accepted anyway.
What is left, and how much time do we have to finish this?

Especially since the Unit Cost thread is where the action is at!

@polarnomad: just said "close enough" to see how long it would take people to notice. Actually, the co. is very decentralised and we work mainly from Botswana, Zambia and South Africa because of the legislation in South Africa that prohibits the provision of military expertise. If you want more info we can pm. But back to the point of the thread, have you had a go at the translation of the Sun Tzu quote? My brother works for the foreign ministry so he can get assistance if I ask really nicely.

[polarnomad]

Haven't had a go at translating the Sun Tzu quote yet, other than I attempted to locate it in an on-line version of The Art of War, but couldn't find it. My idea was if I could find it in the english version it would be easy to extract it from the german version.

I've found quite a few people have quoted that particular sentence, but no one places the source. UnO?

I'll give it a shot if people want it in german, but you could always ask your brother for help if it's not too inconvenient for you. So do we want the motto in german?

[troglodyte]

I am meeting some Germans for drinks this evening - I'll get it from them, then we can decide about the language etc.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I pulled it off a military quotes website. My guess would be one of Sun Tzu's lectures/letters rather than the Art of War.

I'll check my references at home. Sounds like it may be another misquote attributed to Sun Tzu rather than Sun Pin, who typically was more direct in his speaking.

edit:

Supposedly it is from a conversation recorded by Ssu-ma Ch`ien between Sun Tzu and Ho Lu, and included in Ssu-ma Ch`ien's biography on Sun Tzu, which reads much like propoganda, so take it with a grain of salt.

[troglodyte]

Hi Guys - a serious hangover later...

Turns out one of the guys has done a doctorate in chinese military classics (there are seven major ones, apparently) and he says the quote should actually look like this (from his memory)...

Siegreich sind nur jene, die bereit sind, das entsprechende Opfer zu bringen. (Literal translation from Chinese: Only those who are prepared to make the appropriate sacrifice will taste victory).

He also tells me that ther are several ways of looking at the Chinese characters, so we could just pretend...

[polarnomad]

Good you got your friend to translate the quote. I needed the english translation you included to make head or tails of it! :tongue:

Otherwise, sounds great to me.:b:

Aren't hangovers fun?! And the great part is that they only seem to get better with age! ;)

[troglodyte]

Originally posted by polarnomad
Good you got your friend to translate the quote. I needed the english translation you included to make head or tails of it! :tongue:

Aren't hangovers fun?! And the great part is that they only seem to get better with age! ;)

Ah, the benefits of sobriety! You know, I give up alchohol after every night like that. Doesn't last long though...

Yeah, well, I dunno about the translation. It just looks wierd that the German is way longer than the English. Must be the effect of all those talk shows on German television. Bring back Derrik!

On the assumption that we seem to have started, does anything in this thread need further attention?

But just for those who remain interested, I found this wonderful poem by AE Housman the other night:




Epitaph on an army of mercenaries

These, in the days when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.

Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay.


Nice, huh.:cool:

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Kloreep
I tried rotating the sword around and chopping off the arm & hilt, which produces a more distinct result, though it's fairly far afield from the original image:

I'm rather partial to the skull & crossbones. At least for the civgroup icon.