AU 100-A DAR 3: The Classical Era [Archive] - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums

nbarclay

November 25, 2005, 03:49

After having traded for Pottery, America shifted some of its attention from expansion to building cottages for gold – especially in Philadelphia, a flood plains city northwest of Washington. On flood plains, even a cottage was enough for America’s Financial bonus to kick in. Later, the city of Washington traded its irrigation for cottages as well.

After researching Alphabet, Lord Nathan’s researchers went on to research Drama, mostly for trading potential but also for the potential to use the culture slider. Next, they went back to pick up Metal Casting in order to build Forges. Boston built the Great Lighthouse, providing additional trade routes for coastal cities and making a large empire a bit more practical than it would have been otherwise (especially as long as the extra cities are coastal). With Metal Casting completed, America turned its efforts to Philosophy and the discovery of Taoism, which was completed in 450 AD. With that discovery, America entered the medieval era. Tech trades have resulted in acquiring Calendar, Mathematics, Iron Working, and Priesthood. America has a slight overall lead in tech values, but some of the AIs have techs that America doesn’t (and are not currently willing to trade them).

Expansion of the American nation continued through the Classical Era, but more sporadically and at a slower pace than before. In the year 450 AD, America settled its thirteenth city. The empire’s size makes it extremely expensive to operate, running at –1 gold per turn at 60% science. But with a GNP almost three times that of the average AI, and with hair over twice as many cities as the nearest known rival, America can afford it, and getting the extra cities started now will make them more valuable later on.

The biggest drawback to my strategy thus far is that I’ve been leaving myself pretty wide open militarily. I have warriors in all my cities to keep them from being unhappy over not having any protection, but the most I’ve ever had in more modern units was two swordsmen and an archer, and one of the swordsmen has since been killed by an axe-wielding barbarian. If one of the AIs decides to get aggressive before I get around to reinforcing my borders, I could find myself in very big trouble.

In regard to my relations with the AIs, the one thing I truly hate about Civ IV is how demanding the AIs are. It’s just plain insane that I spend huge amounts of gold researching state-of-the-art technologies, and then AIs get irritated with me if I’m not willing to hand over the fruits of my enormous investment for free. It’s also highly irritating to be bombarded with demands from AIs to cancel deals with other AIs. I don’t expect to be able to be everyone’s best friend at once, but neither do I like being penalized for trying to remain neutral in regard to the AIs’ mutual dislikes of each other – especially when the AIs aren’t actually at war with each other.

Right now my relations are at a net +1 with the Mongols and Germans, -1 with Egypt, -3 with Spain, and –4 with the Arabs. I have open borders with the first three, but not with the last two.

I’ve had a couple interesting adventures thus far. One came just before I finished researching Drama when a barbarian snuck up from the South and pillaged my only fur camp before I could get any units into position to do anything about it. That caused some anger in at least two of my cities (including the capital) until I finished researching Drama and used the culture slider to quell it. (Getting a new camp built took a bit longer.)

The other adventure came when the Mongols snuck in a city directly adjacent to one of my cities to claim some ivory that was supposed to be mine. For the time being, I managed to snatch away one of the ivories by using chops to help build a quick library and theater in my city and intrude culturally into the Mongol city’s first ring, but I don’t know how long the situation will last.

I’ve also noticed that the resource situation in this game is a bit better than I realized when I set it up. I knew about some of it from deliberately looking in the World Builder to make sure there was at least one early-game happiness resource within a reasonable distance, but I hadn’t realized quite how many resources the human player has within reach – at least insofar as the resources revealed thus far are concerned. Now that I have Calendar and am about to research Monarchy (both of which give me access to previously unusable resources), I should be in pretty good shape to let my cities grow a bit larger.

Egypt is in the lead in the wonder race with four wonders, while Spain, the Mongols, and I each have one. Thus far, I’ve been too busy doing other things to spend much time on wonders, but that’s likely to change in the near future.

I’m not sure what I’ll research next after I get Monarchy. I think I’ll wait and see if anything happens in the next couple turns to help me make up my mind.

teriakiburger

November 25, 2005, 12:01

With confucianism now founded as state religon after 1 turn of anarchy, my free missonary heads to Washington to spread the faith there.

I would usually pursue more rapid growth, but then again I usually play with 18 civs no matter what the map, so I got plenty of time still to expand.

In 1280 BC my stone quarry is done which will help with the pyramid gamble.

I am refusing the requests for open borders, no sense in now getting them, I am not ready to explore further out yet.

In 1200BC the rednecks rejoice as hunting is researched, but decide to get the wheel, as I see the stone is not being used by New York without a road
:doitnow!:

Also founded 3rd city of Boston in 1200BC with the wheat, cows, and ivory on the river to the east of Washington and start work on a worker.

With a warrior for exploring completed, Washington turns inwards and a decision to constuct a library is made.

With Washington size 6 at the max happiness, an egghead is taken out of the fields to help research as the Chaste System is adopted:idea:

With -4 gold with just 3 cities at 100% reseach, the thought of more cities makes the grand bean counter head explode.

In 1000 BC, the pointy arrow research is continued at redneck request.

975 BC warrior out on patrol in a forest barely defends against a barbarian warrior, a true tool.

900BC we now have archery, fear the bowmen :cough: cough:
Playing with clay (Pottery) is next, as Boston completes a worker, our first archer is ordered to be trained for defense.

In 850 BC joy of joys, Isabella settles Cordoba just to the NW of Boston, I guess she just loves super close borders.

Finally in 825BC road to the stone quarry is complete, and in 800 BC pottery is completed.

Decide to go for Alphabet to gage how my rivals are doing (normally plan with tech trading off, but let's see if I can tech whore)

First archer is completed in Boston by selective lumbering and a settler started.

Gods have blessed us in 775BC with a Merit Ptah, who prompty founds his academy in the capital.

In 725BC the capital is under barbarian assault, with a farm pillaged.

In 675BC the barbarians learn the hard way of 60% cultural boni, crashing harmlessly on the gates. An archer is stationed in the capital to harass any further attempts from the west.

A settler is sent out to settle the 4th city to block the mongolians to the north for strategic purposes, like Boston did for Isabella.

It seems the barbarians have set up a city just to the north of my capital, I must give my regards to them soon.

In 525BC, the library is completed in the capital, so to bolster our poor defenses an archer is ordered up.

Philadelphia, our 4th city is founded in 525BC bringing expenses to -8 turn, which will run out our gold reserves in 7 turns, so research is reduced to 90% at -3 turn.

And the gamble pays off as in 500BC I got the pyramids in New York, these American dunderheads did a good job :cool:

A worker is ordered next for New York, and I connect the capital to the ivory in Boston.

Of course, revolution is in order for the power of representation.

In 450BC our pinheads finish the study of alphabet. But no one wants a reasonable trade, and already I am the worst enemy of both Isabella and Hatschepsut without doing anything
:hmmm:

---to be continued---

Fireb

November 25, 2005, 16:41

Goal recap Diplo victory, spam judaism, cottages and cities.

625 BC - Horses appear next to New York. With 3 wineries nearby, a cow to the north, and floodplains to the south, the city stands to become a drunken cesspool of pox-ridden cowboys.

An egyptian stack of 2 axmen and a spearman appears next to philadelphia! They're peaceful, but for how long? Where are those missionaries, I need to convert her to the only true and acceptable faith - fast!

550 BC Washington is attacked again. Barb archer appears close to washington. My archer is promoted to city garison 1. Genghis discovers (and converts to) confucianism! My worst fears have come true, now he'll hate me and probably attack me. Argh!

500 BC Genghis demands I cancel all deals (open borders and wheet for fish) with hatty. I refuse. Diplomacy now stands at -1 with Genghis.

475 BC Both Genghis and Isabella cancel open border agreements with me! Trouble is brewing, I can feel it. Barracks are started across the empire.

400 BC Another barb city is found, this time in the west. Just what I need, barbs to the south and west, an irritated isabella to the east, and an irritated genghis to the north...The situation is becoming dire.

375 BC Hatty converts to Judaism. Celebrations are held throughout the empire. In the long term, this is good, in the short term, it doesn't help against the barbs, or the mongols, or the spanish...I decide to trade alphabet for ironworking with saladin, as I'll want to take down those barb cities as soon as the barracks are completed. 2 iron tiles are within working range of my cities. Another relief.

250 BC The previous turn finishes. The next turn loads. The messages appear. Wow! Chistianity is founded, but not by me :(

And then...all hell breaks loose, the sound of war is made! My worst fears have materialised! Who has attacked me, Isabella or Genghis?

I read the message. I read it again. I can't believe it. Genghis has declared war on isabella!!! Wow! What an amazing piece of luck, particularly as I still have nothing but warriors and archers, and last in millitary power.

Current scores are:
584: Hatty
463: Me
452: Genghis
405: Saladin
343: Isabella

275 BC
Genghis asks me to declare war on isabella. Maybe I should have accepted, as I'm protected by genghis. However, I refuse. I don't want war weariness at this stage.

225 and 200 BC
Washington attacked by barb warriors in both turns. My victorious archer is promoted to city garison 2. 5 barbs killed defending my capital! This is unprecedented. 2 barracks are completed in 200 bc, and swordsmen started, I need to eliminate those barbs, fast!

175 BC
Hatty's axmen burn down the barb city in the east. Thanks hatty, that really helps.

125 BC
Theology is researched. All I can trade it for is sailing. I don't bother. Saladin has converted to confucianism. That's not good, he'll be able to go through genghis' lands to attack me, while I still don't know where he is. Meanwhile, a barb axman appears close to washington! Now things are really heating up. My archer should hold out, but it bodes ill for the future.

Overall I'm first in land area and GNP, but 7th in pop! The extra unhealthiness/unhappiness for this difficulty level really shows. I need more settlers and cottages, just as soon as I can eliminate those barbs. I also need a great prohpet, fast, and I still have no wonders or specialists.

teriakiburger

November 26, 2005, 01:51

So far things are going well, Stonehenge, Pyramids, Oracle, and Confucianism founded, an academy in the captial are done, however negative points are the slower expansion with 4 cities in 425BC, and a poor military.

The lazy workers are ordered to be prompter to hook up the resources to our cities, and archers are being trained.

Polytheism we complete in 375BC, and our worker brings the bacon into town, and another chaffs the corn.

We decide to research sailing next, maybe we can get the Great Lighthouse, even though we just have 1 coastal town.

The hounarable venerable Bede ranks us #1 in size, with Hashepsut at #2, Genghis at #3, Saladin at #4 at Isabella at #5 and then the 2 loser unknowns.

Another archer is ordered for New York so we don't look so weak militarily, and another archer for Boston.

In 325BC we decide cottage cheese hamlets are needed for our growing population, and it is so.

300BC our archer in Boston defends against the barbarian invader, and the yacht club is founded with sailing.

Next the court poet secretly orders for literature to be researched to the chagrin of all.

The archer that Washington made is sent to our northmost city Philadelphia, next to our Mongol friends.

In 275BC, a lighthouse is started in New York, and we decide to trade with Saladin for iron working giving him alphabet, maybe not so wise, but it was done in a fever. Luckily the iron is closer at hand to us.

In 225BC, bad news as the Parthenon is built far far away in Thebes.

In 200BC we launch the bid to get the Great Lighthouse in New York, and Boston begins work on a settler.

In 150BC we get the book worm with literature, and decide to go for metal casting next, and we start the Great Library in the capital.

A worker has been trained in Philadelphia, so an order is made for a settler.

Curses foiled at the great lighthouse is completed by Saladin

:madban:

And we drop research down to 80% as we are broke, but get 46 gold next turn from the failed parts of the lighthouse. Instead, New York starts to crank out swordsman to take the barbarian city.

Taking stock at 1AD, we are #3 in gold, #4 in Mfg goods, #2 in crop yield, #7 in military, #1 in land area, and #3 in population.

A settler is on the way to settle our 5th city, and forces are being drawn up to take the barbarian city of Hsung-Nu.

I decide to give iron for free to Genghis Khan, keep him happy while I finish expanding.

Good news as Confucianism spreads the first time to Baghdad, and Saladin adopts Confucianism.

We reject Isabella demanding next in 75AD for alphabet, and start on a barracks for Boston, it seems to be a good military base, plus close to those annoying Spainiards.

100AD and the capital is 20 turns from the Great Library, cracks the whip.

In 150AD we decide to research horseback riding now that the forges can be made.

In 225 AD Bismark declares war on the Khan, good news indeed. That nasty Khan, who knows what he is thinking founds New Seari just south of Boston!:cute: I see he snuck through a mountain pass I missed..:eek: :eek:

In 250AD the barbarian city is captured, but I decide to burn it, as I place Chicago just to the SW of the ruins for a better location.

Taking stock at 250AD, I am now #1 in population, and moved up to #3 in mfg goods, gold has dropped to #5 though, not good at all, and military is still last

We trade Bismark Alphabet for Mathematics, he gets a better deal but that is the way it goes.

Isabella also declares war on the Khan, good good, I dont need a war now, a few more cities to fill up first.

Since horseback riding completes in 300AD we go for currency next for more trade route action.

In 400AD, we decide to stop giving Genghis Khan Iron as everyone hates him and cancel all deals with him at Hatshepsut request.

Meanwhile, our crack swordsman and axeman force prepare to raid the 2nd barbarian city of Ligurian by the clams already size 6 :love:

We start the collosus in 425 AD , just 10 turns away since we have copper too hooked up.

Our settler for our 7th city is ready in Boston, so next up is a forge to help military productions.

Ligurian falls to our forces, but a swordsman is lost to a defending warrior. :mad:

Imhotep is born in 450AD in New York, I will keep him on ice for now. Christanity is founded somewhere else.

The census at 500AD, shows I have 7 cities now, military has moved up to #6 and mfg goods moved up to #2, still leading in score.

We decide to pursue music next for the great artist, and notre dame wonder.

In 560AD at last the Great Library is established in our capital.

In 600AD made a trade with Bismark of Currency for Construction.

640 AD sees the Colossus completed in New York.

680 AD I enter the Medieval era! with Music. Giving me a great artist Ling Lun, and my capital chruns out another Great Scientist Nabu-rinmai

Taking the census at 680 AD, I now have 8 cities, am #1 in GNP, Mfg Goods, Crop Yield and Land Area. #6 still in military strength and have dropped to #2 in population.

As for Wonders: Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library and Collosus. And leading in score at 1010 points.

Luckily have avoided any wars so far, and I plan to place 4 more cities around the empire to better use the land.

I still havent got a great prophet yet though which is hurting religion spread.

Aeson

November 26, 2005, 04:27

I entered the Classical Era on a (mostly) beeline to Code of Laws in 1440BC. I researched Mining real quick after CoL, needing to mine the Gold for Happiness, then went with Alphabet. In 1080BC I finished the Oracle and took Civil Service, which was 35 turns of research at the time. Technically that was the end of the Classical Era... but all the rest of what has happened so far has been Classical Era stuff.

Waited a while to get some Chariots and Settlers out before switching to Caste System and Bureaucracy. Still didn't switch to Confucianism because I didn't want to take the attitude hits with those who had religions yet.

After Alphabet I started in on Drama and trading techs around. First trade was Meditation and Priesthood to Saladin for Sailing. Then Writing and Pottery to Isabella for Polytheism and Hunting. A turn later, Polytheism and Meditation to Genghis for Archery and Masonry. Pottery and Meditation to Bismark for Bronze Working. This left me with monopolies on Alphabet and Code of Laws, with the only techs I didn't have that an AI did being Iron Working and Mathematics.

Sent a couple Missionaries to the Mongols, and got them to switch from Polytheism to Confucianism. Confucianism also spread passively to Hatshepsut, who adopted it as her state religion. She still won't talk to me though! I think there must be some sort of bug... it's been 30+ turns and she still won't talk.

I was escorting the Missionaries with Chariots, and was going to keep sending them out, but on their way back the Chariots spotted a stack of Arabian troops heading towards me through Mongol territory. There was a Spear, 3 Chariots, 2 Swords, and 2 Axes in the lead group. All I had at the time were Chariots and Warriors. I had Horses, could build Archers if it came to that, but had no Copper, so traded Code of Laws to Isabella for Iron Working. I had 2 sources of Iron, and another I could have grabbed if necessary, but one was way out of the way and the easy one to hook up was the right in the way of the invasion. I tasked all my Workers to mine and road it, while building a few more Warriors and turning research down to 0%. I traded Code of Laws to Genghis for Mathematics, and then convinced Bismark (who I also saw sending some units my way) to attack Saladin for Code of Laws. I also finally switched my state religion to Confucianism so I could send most of my Warrior garrisons to the front.

I threw the first Axe in the way of their stack, on a Forest tile. It killed one Axe, injured the other, and a Chariot on the Forest held the. 3 of Saladins units (Sword, Spear, Chariot) went on instead of attacking the Chariot, while 1 stayed back with the injured, and 2 more caught up. The next turn Saladin sent an Axe and Chariot right at my Iron. I attacked with 3 Chariots, withdrawing from the first fight vs the Axe, winning the second fight vs the Axe, and losing to the Chariot. That left the Chariot at .2str, which I finished off with a Warrior. The Warrior was then killed the next turn by an Axe.

By this point, Saladin turned his units around. I had seen a few other units coming through the Mongol cities I had converted, and they turned around too. I killed another Axe, Spear, and Chariot as they were withdrawing. Then I switched back to research, finishing Drama, then going for Currency.

All the while I could see Genghis was building up units. He likes me though I guess, cause he attacked Isabella with them. I'm doing ok economically, but the war with Saladin really set me back. Still only have 4 cities, and just now starting to address the happiness concerns so my cities can grow. Drama really helps. Still have monopoly on the continent with Alphabet and Civil Service. A couple AI don't have Code of Laws yet, and Hatshepsut is positively backwards, 5 techs behind and still not willing to talk in 300BC.

I'm second in GNP, a bit above average in MFG, average in everything else except soldiers, where I'm 7th. Middle of the pack score wise.

Cort Haus

November 26, 2005, 11:19

DAR 1 - Opening (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4159343#post4159343)
DAR 2 - Rest of Ancient Era (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4159378#post4159378)
DAR 4 - Medieval Era (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162293#post4162293)
DAR 5 - Renaissance Era (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162293#post4162293)
DAR 6 - Industrial Era (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4166691#post4166691)
DAR 7 - Modern Era (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4166712#post4166712)

Although Civil Service is a Medieval era tech, I'll wait until discovering another one before considering my game post-Classical, especially when the first thing I do is research Masonry.

With the Oracle done, and stone only a few turns away, the prospect of Stonehenge and/or Pyramids beckons. The Henge will only take 7 turns, even before stone, but Pyramids will really hit my expansion, and with so much good land around I'd rather take the cities than the civics. Especially as I suck royally at using civics and never get round to changing like I should, or knowing what would work best for my situation, or even remembering to use them properly once I've switched and am paying extra upkeep.

I can use Bureacracy though, because all I have to do is press 'Revolt' and it works :) Thanks to that Civic I'm up to 2nd in GNP & Mfg. Just that 7th in miltary and 5th in pop to work on next.

Sometimes after the CS beeline I do alphabet to backfill by trade, but I don't want to wait at least ten turns to find out they won't trade me Archery anyway, or that it will cost me Code of Laws, so after Masonry I pick up Hunting & Archery in a couple of turns each before starting on Alphabet. Need archers NOW! Sooner than now, in fact, as a marauding barb has pillaged a mine. Luckily the Henge is done in two turns, and doesn't need it. I get a warrior on the adjacent mine to the barb, and he manages to defend in one piece. Stonehenge completes (that'll double the speed of the Great Prophet while helping newbie cities in my Secular Confucian state, and I don't want to build a temple and draft a Priest in to speed it up).

That reminds me, I didn't switch to Conficianism. My initial thought on seeing Isabella close by was to wait and maybe convert to her religion - the only way to get on with her, it seems (unless you are Bismark in this game - I think they've got a thing going between them, despite religious and border disagreements). Until I've got at least an average military, with the barracks/hammer capacity to quickly raise more units, I want to keep the diplometer in the green. :scared:

I mentioned a pillaged mine - before a worker could get there to repair it, a forest grew on the spot! Woot!! Thank-you, that barbarian, sir! :D A sweet reward for my non-deforestation policy.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=18997_forest.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_forest.jpg)

I'm leaving the grassland undeveloped as long as possible to maximise the chances of forests growing there in the meantime.

In this era, from 900 BC onwards Washington was recieving constant barb warrior visits from all sides. The Archers now being pumped out of New York started taking up positions around the besieged capital, fortifying on hills and pushing back the FoW while waiting for settlers from the capital, which are spitting out every 5-6 turns.

On discovering Alphabet in 600 BC it takes a few turns for things to shake out on the tech deals. Some civs apparantly are not missing anything that I have until the following turn, when they're 4 techs behind. I know it sometimes takes a turn for next level techs to be revealed, but sometimes stuff gets hidden when it shouldn't, I suspect. Whatever - I manage to get Pottery and Monotheism for something worth about 150% of their value, but with no diplo plusses on the 'fair deals' ledger. Some have Iron Working to trade, and for that I'll research Mathematics, which IIRC is cheaper than Code-of Laws. I also eventually manage to get Sailing from tech trade. No-one has alphabet of Code of Laws, and some didn't even have Myticism. I gave a few early religious techs away, but no-one gave me any diplo credit for it. Ungrateful scum! Hattie and Bismark are both pleased with me, though. The others are cautious.

As I usually find, the moment I start having anything resembling a minimally-respectable military (capable of little more than a modest defence against barbarian warriors), support costs start to bite and drive down research. If anyone can point me to the part of the documentation that explains support costs (however much I look at the mouseover on the F2 screen, it makes no sense at all) I would appreciate it. Meanwhile, I just have to groan at my ignorance every time I delete a weaker unit to try and reduce costs, and the mysterious 'Handicap Cost' changes and I make no saving. Other times I build a unit, and support costs appear to go up by two. :doitnow!: I almost find myself cheering the loss of an archer to a barb warrior because it'll speed up my research!

Meanwhile, after founding Boston in 625BC (on the Ivory site indicated in 3800 BC), Spain's borders are close enough to mine for my Confucian Missionary-Explorer to hop over the border and take a look round. The Gemans are the other side, and although they've already converted to Hindiusm (joining Hattie & Saladin), there may be some religion-free cities on a river to plant my Mish - which I eventually do in Berlin.

My religious policy is almost non-existant atm, except the slow +4 GPP from the Oracle & Henge working up to a Prophet and Shrine. Meanwhile my small civ is totally focused on defence & expansion, so can't start spreading the Word which is not even a state religion at home.

In 425 BC Philadephia (city #4) is planted, and the next turn Mathematics is completed, and Literature ordered. Hattie completes the Parthenon.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0117.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0117.JPG)

I'm up to 5th in military, just below the average number, but still 7th in pop, 6th in food but I trade Maths for Iron Working in 400BC and I'm now first in score. There's plenty of Iron about, which makes up for the lack of Bronze. I also get Sailing from a trade, and start researching Compass. Harbors won't give me any sea-food health but if I'm planning some coastal commerce.

In 350 BC a report puts me 5th in Power, but importantly ahead of Genghis & Izzie. My pals Egypt and Germany are in the top three. Genghis builds the Pyramids and sets up a Police State. It certainly cost him a lot if land - he's choked on all sides by Egypt, Arabia, Spain & Germany. Spain's not faring much better though, in all that jungle. Maybe those two are not so scary in the medium term. Next turn Genghis converts to Buddism - so there's Buddhist block of Spain & Mongolia, and a Hindu Block of Egypt, Germany & Arabia, with a Secular Confucian America on good terms with 2 of the Hindu block. Maybe I don't want to convert to Izzie's creed after all.

Atlanta is the 5th city - this one is on the Wines/Horses site north of the capital, and research is at 80%. Unit support seems more of an issue than maintenance at this point.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0134.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0134.JPG)

Compass is researched, and Monarchy chosen, and synchronistically, someone builds the Great Lighthouse in 50BC,
Military at this point is 4 Workers, 8 Archers, 1 Axeman, 7 Warriors and a Galley.

Chicago was founded in 25AD between the floodplains and the gold NW of the capital. Wiser folk than me have probably been poprushing from here all game, but I intend to set up a Great Person city here and finally use my Caste System which has been sitting around gathering dust (except for artist-driven border expansions) and draining income while my cap pushes settlers out. The foul Mongols have planted a city between Boston and Atlanta, though, so the artists come in handy again to put the squeeze on the evil city. Boston completes a harbor and starts on a temple to help the culture war, but to my disappointment the harbor does nothing. Not even a single gold. It was 2g before, and 2g after. Hmm, maybe after some growth upwards from its size 4.

Monarchy comes in 125AD, and Currency is started. Size 5 Boston finally manages to get another gold from its harbored-up trade route :relief:

350 Ad and it's Courthouse time across the empire as the increasing number of cities nudges up the maintenance. At this Organised price, Courthouses would have been better built before Harbours, as they have more impact. In other games, though, harbours have rocketed commerce in the cities that built them. Finally, that other income-generator the Great Prophet emerges blinking into the sunshine, and takes his Sacred Journey to New York to build the shrine. My main unit-pump is also my Holy City, but that can't be helped in a strat like this. Other cities can soon help with units, as the shrine city will want a marketplace.

Next tech is Literature for the Great Library. Meanwhile, the barbs have a city in the tundra - not quite where I wanted to build, but not a bad site, and I start diverting the Axemen from Mongol-watch down to take the barb city - which I foolishly though was full of warriors but when I arrive it's full of archers. No matter - City Raider gives the required odds (phew, no culture) and I get that city, losing one axeman. It also means I can disband some of the warriors I had picketed down their - costing double in support as they were 'away from home' whilst on-guard.

Music's siren call tempts me with the prospect of a Great Work down there in the tundra. Otherwise the AI will fill every last useless nook & cranny and generally be a nuisance. Astonishingly though, it seems that the English - wherever they are - have already got it, as no-one round here has Music and there was not Great Artist for me. With the second Medieval tech discovered, I set the controls for Metal Casting, and declare the Classical Era over.

8 Cities, 2 more on their way.

1st in GNP
1st in Mfg
2nd in Food
4th in Mil
1st in Land
3rd in Pop

1st in points - 1045 against Hattie's 832. The other four are in the 600's.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0154.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_Civ4ScreenShot0154.JPG)

chriseay

November 26, 2005, 17:19

DAR 1: 4000 BC - 1520 BC (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4158935#post4158935)
DAR 2: 1480 BC - Beginning of Classical Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4159533#post4159533)
DAR 3: Classical Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4160190#post4160190)
DAR 4: Medieval Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4164329#post4164329)
DAR 5: Renaissance Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4166449#post4166449)
DAR 6: Industrial Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4166457#post4166457)
DAR 7: Modern Era (http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4166466#post4166466)

Everything looks ok. I feel like I am playing on too easy of a level, and I now wish I would have started this game at noble. I had reservations, but the mechanics of reporting on the game in this manner have made me think much more about each move, so I am doing much better than I have in other games. I will move up levels in the next game that I play.

425 BC: New York finishes the Oracle, and I take Mathematics as my free tech. I'll need it to get Construction and Calendar. Plus, I want to stop taking techs so far in the tree with the Oracle, because when I move up in levels, getting the Oracle will be that much harder.

400 BC: I finish Monarchy and start on Calendar.

350 BC: I finish the Pyramids in New York. I will now switch to representation.

175 BC: Finish Calendar, start Metal Casting. Forges will help with production, as I have been emphasizing growth everywhere.

50 BC: I found Seattle far to the north, bordering on both the Mongols and the Egyptians. I hope that I can solidify the area in between it and the rest of my empire, otherwise it will become isolated and ripe for conquest.

25 AD: I build San Francisco between the river and the mountain range on the northern frontier

75 AD: I start work on Compass, for harbors, and will start forges in most cities now that I have them. I also am building up militarily a little, as I have two barbarian cities to take care of, and I do not want to spread myself too thin through the somewhat rapid expansion I am doing.

100 AD: New York finishes the Great Lighthouse. The extra trade routes will help my expansion, since most of my new cities will be coastal.

200 AD: Build Los Angeles on the north coast by clams and corn. This will hem in a Mongol settlement, as they have taken one of the barbarian cities. I hope this will not start a war, but yet another reason to continue to build up my military.

250 AD: I start Houston on the southwestern coast, near the whales after destroying the barbarian city. I plan on one or two more cities at the least in this area, with many good resources available.

300 AD: I finish Code of Laws, but do not found Confucianism. I start research on Literature, because I'd like to get the Great Library.

350 AD: I get Imhotep in Washington, and use him to build the Great Library there. This will add to the Great Person potential of Washington, as well as my scientific progress.

450 AD: I start the Colossus in New York, which will take only 6 turns. I just hooked up copper, and finished a forge. I am looking for the boost to my commerce.

500 AD: I finish Music, and move into the medieval era. I am the first to research this tech, so I also receive a free great artist. I will use it to push my borders on the Mongols and the Egyptians at Seattle, where I am in desperate need of a border boost. I start research on Currency. I'll play the next three turns for this DAR to use my great artist in Seattle.

560 AD: The culture bomb in Seattle works wonders, giving me control of the whole city radius, plus completely enclosing a Mongol city in my borders.

I am first in every F9 category except for trade, and far ahead in pop, prod, food and gnp. If people are bored with how well I am doing, I am willing to sit out the rest of this game and start the next a level up. As I've noted before, I am amazed how effective pop rushing can be in a game with enough happiness resources and food. It can really make up for a lack of shields.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=67124_560ad0000.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=67124_560ad0000.JPG)

Taian

November 26, 2005, 23:59

Monarch Difficulty

This DAR is actually my second DAR, but since I entered the classical age within the constraints of the time period covered by the first DAR, I'm sort of skipping the DAR2 category and heading straight into the DAR3 period.

DAR3: Classical Age (1520BC - 50AD)

During this period, the American empire began to spread its wings and blossom into the most technologically advanced civilization on their continent.

1480BC - Animal Husbandry. I decided to go for Currency after AH to get the +1 trade route bonus and also to give my cities the chance to build markets. Coupled with the rapidly growing cottages/hamlets/etc they should produce a relatively robust economy early to help fuel further expansion.

1200BC - Saladin converts to Buddhism

950BC - Currency. Now it's time to go after Calendar and get those luxuries hooked up.

875BC - Sailing. Next stop Calendar. Isabella adopts slavery.

850BC - Hatty adopts slavery and Stonehenge is constructed somewhere.

800BC - The Oracle is constructed somewhere.

600BC - Calendar. Time to re-route those workers into linking up the spices and silk.

500BC - Pyramids built somewhere.

475BC - Genghis adopts Police State. Guess I know who built those Pyramids now...

450BC - Code of Laws. Confucianism founded in New York. This was the turn where the early gamble to go
for growth and forego the early religions had it's final hole closed; I managed to found one of the religions. Revolution is started to adopt Confucianism as the state religion. I want to get the happiness bonus moving in the cities asap even though I know this could (will) spark tensions with the rest of the civs on the continent.

425BC - Confuciansim adopted as state religion.

400BC - Capture Gepid from the barbarians. The placement was good enough that I decided to keep it rather than razing. It helps provide a bit of a guard against further Spanish expansion and also, once it has
expanded, will hopefully net me one of those ivory resources. I also used the missionary from Confucianism to spread it into Washington on this turn, giving it the happiness benefit.

325BC - Capture Bulgar from the Barbarians. Again, the placement wasn't too bad so I kept this one as well. It should have access to 4 fur resources and the sheep as well once the borders expand.

300BC - Alphabet. This is where the fun starts. Time to start trading to backfill the techs that I bypassed on the way up. First off, sent Currency over to Bismarck in exchange for Mysticism, Masonry, Iron Working, Hunting and 60 gold.

275BC - Second round of trading takes place and I send Iron Working over to Egypt in exchange for Meditation, Archery and 60 gold.

There were a few other trades in the ensuing turns, but nothing too big. I forgot to keep track of them so
they're not listed but I was able to backfill virtually everything I had previously bypassed....worked out quite nicely I think.
Also in 275BC, both Genghis and Bismarck adopted Buddhism as their religions. This isn't shaping up too
nice. There are now 3 different state religions on the continent: Isabella has hinduism, I have confucianism and everyone else has buddhism; I can already sense the upcoming conflicts...

225BC - Confucianism spreads to Atlanta. Egypt adopts Hereditary Rule.

175BC - Drama.

75BC - Confucianism spreads to Seattle.

1AD - Hinduism spreads into Gepid. I was expecting this to happen sooner or later given its proximity to
Spanish cities...

50AD - Philosophy. Taoism founded in Boston. Thus ends the Classical age...

I'm currently researching at an 80% rate and losing about 3 gold per turn. Not too worried though since I
have 234 in the treasury. I'm 9 turns away from Civil Service and at the moment, I'm thinking my next line
of techs will go something like:

Civil Service
Music
Paper
Education
Gunpowder
Nationhood
Horseback Riding (if not traded for already)
Liberalism (and take Military Tradition as the free tech)

I haven't thought it out all that far though so that's subject to change. If I do pursue it though, the idea would be to get to Cavalry and start...umm...converting/pacifying...the continent :)

Polytheism (All others), Horseback Riding (Bismarck) and Monarchy (Hatty) are the only techs that the AI
has and I don't as far as I know. I have Meditation, Priesthood (Germans have neither), Code of Laws,
Alphabet, Mathematics, Currency and all the techs above those as monopolies over the civs I have contact with. Things are going well on the research front...

Significant Events:
525BC - Americans reach the 500,000 population mark
300BC - Alphabet completed, now allowing tech trading.
50AD - Classical age ends. Americans reach the 1,000,000 population mark

Demographics:
1st in Crop Yield, Land Area, Population, GNP and Production
5th in Soldiers
3rd in Approval Rating
7th in Life Expectancy
6th in Imports/Exports

Cities:
Washington
New York
Boston
Philadelphia - 1480BC
Atlanta - 1120BC
Chicago - 850BC
Gepid - Captured from barbarians in 400BC
Bulgar - Captured from barbarians in 325BC
Seattle - 100BC

Infrastructure:
5 Libraries - Washington, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Gepid
2 Markets - Washington, New York
2 Courthouses - New York, Boston
1 Lighthouse - Boston

At one point, I was (and I guess still am) building libraries to push the cultural borders since most of my
cities weren't generating any culture. That's the reason that Gepid has a library already. I'm hoping to push out the borders and snag an ivory with it.

Units:
5 Workers
1 Taoist Missionary
11 Warriors
1 Archer
6 Chariots

Technologies:
Hunting
Sailing
Animal Husbandry
Archery
Mysticism
Meditation
Masonry
Priesthood
Iron Working
Alphabet
Calendar
Drama
Currency
Code of Laws
Philosopy
Currently 9 turns away from Civil Service

And, from last DAR:
Mining
Fishing
The Wheel
Agriculture
Pottery
Bronze Working
Writing
Mathematics

Bobtoad

November 27, 2005, 04:58

The Saga (DAR Links)
4000 BC - 1520 BC (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4160991#post4160991)
1480 BC - Start of Classical Era (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4161043#post4161043)
The Classical Era
The Medieval Era (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162262#post4162262)
The Renaissance Era (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162727#post4162727)

Summary...
The Classical Era was a time I sought to bring balance to my empire. The two big areas I felt it lacked in were military and number of cities. So my technological path through this time was directed at these. In further exploration though, I found myself more boxed in than I had expected. Spain is immediately East of Washington (hence why it's still black on my map and hardly anyone else's). The Mongols are very near north. At least West and South are safe for expansion though, right? Hah. I soon found barbarian cities in both locations. But this is okay. I'm going for military anyway this era, so instead of building new cities I'll capture the two barbarian ones.

Since I'm looking to capture a couple cities instead of building settlers, this led my technological path to include things that would stabilize my existing cities (whether it's units, buildings, or research, they need to have something to build). Mathematics (after Masonry) gave me some needed health with Aqueducts. Monarchy was put to good use in two cities and added happiness (and civics, but I'll get to that). Metal Casting helped my food/commerce rich locations to get a little more productivity with the forges - making the health of aqueducts and granaries that much more important to offset the forges. And Alphabet allowed me to explore trading options though the AI was most cheap.

Making use of George's Organized trait I implemented a few civic changes noted in the chronology. I also only conducted one trade after researching Alphabet, which is also listed below. With Hatshepsut being my chief rival in points, the Aggressive Genghis Khan my close neighbor, and their lack of interest in each other, I had to make a choice. I think I feel safer with the Mongols at my side. If, and deep inside I still find it a large if, but if I can keep the Mongols as a friend their military prowess could come in handy against the point racking Egyptians.

Chronology...
850 BC - Barbarian warriors ascend upon Washington
775 BC - Isabella cancels open borders. This is when I realized I should have explored and expanded East sooner.
750 BC - Iron is found near Washington!
400 BC - Adopted Hereditary Rule and Caste System. We're Organized, so why not?
350 BC - Gibbon ranks The Most Advanced Civilizations. I rate 1st.
175 BC - Mongols declare war on Arabia. Better them than me!
50 AD - I reach 1/2 a million souls in the American Empire.
200 AD - First Great Scientist is born. He constructs an academy in Washington. Christianity is founded elsewhere.
375 AD - I trade Metal Casting for Calendar and 70 gold from the Mongols. Maybe not the best deal, but I didn't find it to be the worst either. I was just surprised Genghis didn't demand the technology without offering anything haha. I also discovered Civil Service and entered the Medieval Period.
425 AD - Took the time to adopt Bureaucracy. Also captured Cherokee from the barbarians. Should join my empire soon.

Information Rankings at 425 AD...
Gold - 1st
Prod - 2nd
Food - 2nd
Soldiers - 7th
Land - 1st
Population - 2nd
Imports/Exports - 3rd

Points at 425 AD...
683 - Me
680 - Hatshepsut
528 - Genghis
and it goes down from there...

Cool Link: Gibbon ranks The Most Advanced Civilizations in 350 BC (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=73761_AU100-A350BC.JPG)

Thoughts: I might not have captured Cherokee until the end of the age and am still in the process of assaulting Bulgar, but I don't feel too bad about my pursuit of expansion. My boundaries have blocked off the land, and a quick city or two will fill in things nicely. What time I didn't spend building swordsmen/archers I spent improving my cities. Each of the core cities contains a number of improvements. And even though the rankings still list me last in soldiers, I feel my goal of improving the military was succesful as I built enough advanced units (for the time) to feel safe(er). Hatshepsut led me in points throughout the era. It wasn't until the last turn or two of the Classical Age that I [barely] moved back into first. Improved world rankings and a feeling of satisfaction for balancing my empire lead me to believe that my strategy worked for this stage. Perhaps the next era will teach me otherwise though.

As you can see I'm researching Paper. All this time we've been writing, but on what? From there I'm aiming to go for Education and Liberalism to promote my science advantage.

And I'd also like to note that I still haven't discovered Monotheism. This prohibits me from utilizing the Organized Religion civic. I didn't think much of it before, but looking back now I could've really used the extra production. I mean I even went a bit out of my way for forges, which is a more expensive technology and requires the buildings. And with Washington being Organized, aren't high priced civics supposed to be his thing? Oops. And as I noted in my first DAR, though I realized it after this era, Slavery could have been extremely useful with all the food in my empire. Of course the time and money I didn't use towards these were placed elsewhere, in retrospect though I wonder how much I could've benefitted from them in this game.

DeepO

November 27, 2005, 09:10

DAR 1 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4160338#post4160338)
DAR 2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4160353#post4160353)

Last time, we left the DAR in 1120 BC, with 2 cities and the Oracle about to complete in 3 turns.

CS beeline ending
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0077.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0077.JPG)
This same turn, I spot a settler party from Isabella. I hesitated... if that would have been an archer instead of a warrior scouting, I would have attacked. Now, the risk was simply too big. I wasn't expecting Isabella to have build up a lot of units, so I'd probably be able to go for archery immediately, starting units in both my cities. I'd be relatively safe.

But if my initial attack would fail, I'd be of a lot worse. Isabella would still found an ivory city, and I would have one less unit to fight with (and no worker either).

The decision was made to postpone my attack on Isa, we would get to war anyway, so let her build up that site for me. Before elephants arrive, though, I need to make sure I steel that ivory back!

Next turn,Seville was founded on the grass, in reach of both ivory sources. Which mean that my third city needed to go near the stone... do I smell a great artist use? I still haven't decided what the next tech will bring (after the wheel, I've got 3 immediate concerns: alphabet, IW and monarchy. I think I'll go for alphabet first, which opens up the Music beeline. Music=free GA, at a moment where you most need him)

Tensions between me and Isabella are only going to grow. I need to prepare for war asap.

1040 BC: confucianism spreads to Washington, as my missionary auto-converts.
I'm loving these new queued actions on units, and am still fully exploring how to use them properly. In this case, upon building the missionary, I shift-right clicked to Wash, and while holding shift clicked the 'convert' button. Once that has been done, you don't need to bother with your missionary again.

The same for workers: when I take the time to plan some of my improvements, I typically give 3-5 queued orders to my workers. Move there - build mine - road - move somewhere else - irricate - road. This alleviates tedium a lot, while focusing you on the important decisions. The only problem is that sometimes you speed along in turns so fast you're forgetting to pay attention to your cities ;)

1000 BC: Wash builds the Oracle. I discover CS. This DAR is officially over :D Anyway, I'm continuing until 50 AD.

Expansion again
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0085.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0085.JPG)
With the Oracle built, I can finally switch to confucianism. NY grew this turn, and gave me an unhappy citizen. I'm also planning on switching civics next turn, so that's 2 consecutive turns of anarchy. But at least the warrior completed before hitting anarchy, and I can use him.

Barbs appear near Washington(which starts on a settler). While I gain some promotions, I also lose a farm on floodplains. Oh well. I don't need it that badly anymore, and I intend to build cottages there asap.

The wheel completes in 925 BC, and I start on Alphabet. So far, I've met 5 others, meaning that normally there is one more AI out there. This being continents, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a large island to himself, but is locked in until optics. I haven't done much scouting, though: I'm spending all I got on patrolling the badlands, avoiding barbs to spawn rather than deal with them. As a result, I can't see any other AI territory yet, even if I have OBs with most.

After the wheel, my worker starts immediately on roading the wheat, returning to completing the farm on the tile next to one turn later. It is meant to do another desert hill, hopefully followed by cottages on fp.

750 BC: 2nd settler created in Wash. He goes off to the elephants, where an escort is already waiting for him. Another defender will be sent asap, but hopefully that will be an archer.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0099.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0099.JPG)
in 725 BC, the scientist completes. I use it to build an academy in Washington. My max bpt goes to 42 bpt, over double of what a non-CS beeline would get at this point in the game.

I'm going to turn off the scientists, though. My next GP should be a prophet, and I don't want to risk it becoming a scientist instead. Only... I don't have a temple yet.

So, I shift things around, put my specialists to work the hills until both settler and temple complete, and will use Wash as a prophet generator for now. I've got 2 shrines to build, and still some easy religions to pick up: Theology looks like a possibility with my need for monarchy (wines), and I already have everything ready for Philo. Judaism has been discovered a while ago, so I need to hurry. The AI know how to use prophets too.

Somewhere around 650 BC, Boston is settled near to the elphants, next to the stone. I want it to try for the great lighthouse, however I can't make a priority of that now. It will have to build a worker at this own.

It will get a GA later, but in the mean time it needs culture to reach the wheat... Obelisk first, than worker, lighthouse, GL. If I'll lose the race, so be it, I can probably use the gold around that time.

625: 3rd settler completed. It moves to the river plains near Washington, with piglets in sight. I've got plans for putting a floodplains city North of him, or I would have shifted towards the lake. Might have a made a little mistake there, I'm not sure.

DeepO

DeepO

November 27, 2005, 09:11

600 BC: Alphabet
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0104.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0104.JPG)
As Alphabets is discovered, I take a look in the trading screen. I've got plenty of tech to trade away. Nobody has reached alphabet or CoL, the rest are discovered here and there.

however, one thing immediately strikes me as a setback: none of the AIs are willing to trade pottery yet :(

I trade away my techs for basically all I miss: never trading away alphabet (never, ever trade away alphabet!), only once CoL. Also keep in mind the prereqs: you need BW and hunting in the first round, if you want to get to IW and archery in round 2.

Very smooth trading, in general, especially Bismarck was nice to deal with. I got him flat up to (but not including) Alphabet and CoL, but gained 5 techs from him doing so.

I'm starting Monarchy in my city, and change some worker plans around: iron within my capital's reach! The horses near to NY are also nice, and it looks like a good spot was opened up by horses to the South as well. My pig city site has iron within reach too... nice ;)

in 450 BC, Philadelphia is founded, and starts on a worker. It needs a border expansion before becoming productive, and is supposed to become a barracks city as well. Hopefully a religion will spread there soon, as it would be best to have it produce a monastry in the short term. I don't have a good spot to build missionaries from, yet, and as Monotheism is not available for trade yet, I can't go org religion.

325 BC: Monarchy
After Monarchy completes, I find that I can't trade for Polytheism. I need to research that myself before going for literature. I'm not changing civics yet, as hereditary rule won't give me any more growth in my cities. They are happy, plus will be getting wines very shortly. Once I get Monotheism, I'll change both hereditary rule and org religion at the same time.

I am ORG, though, and should be focused on using the expensive civics. Normally, I try to avoid things like org religion unless I'm in need for the tech: it can cost you 20% of your total mainentance budget. With ORG, that is halved, meaning that working your strategies around those high-cost civics pays off.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0111.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0111.JPG)
275BC, and a Woodsman II warrior finds the outskirts of a barb town. It's more or less where I want it to be: my archer to the north is at another city site. This barb town is going to get all attention immediately: I don't want them to reach axes, I need swords to crush them asap. Well... after it expands to size 2, of course ;)

On a global scale, Isabella is converting 2 of the others to Hinduism. That's not good, I am going to war with Isa pretty soon, already the tension has been rising.

225 BC: Discovery of Polytheism. I start on literature. Meanwhile, I try to trade for maths, so that I can get to Music asap (I succeed too, for CoL, but I'm not sure when exactly. Sadly, the diplo screenshots still don't work, and I'm using screenshots exclusively to document my games)

I also settle next to the horse/cow. Another barracks city, it seems, with a harbor and a commerce function later on. Production isn't too bad here, once I get the pastures up.

in 175 BC, the pyramids complete somewhere. This is late: I could easily have gotten it in about any city. I wouldn't be able to complete both pyramids and Oracle though, while still having some form of expansion. So I'm not too bothered, I'll try to conquer the pyramids later :D

In 125 BC, Taoism gets founded. Now this is something else: This was my fault. I traded CoL away for maths, in theory a couple of turns too early. But I didn't realise that another AI-wave of prophets was about to start: You will see in about all games that prophets ome in waves at first. The AI will more or less follow the same build path, meaning that as soon as it can it will assign a priest in a city to get a prophet. As all AIs start out the same, and all put about the same emphasis on priests and temples, typically you will see 4-5 prophets getting born in the spen of 5 turns.

I didn't see this wave yet in this game. I should have waited with CoL until it passed... 3 prophet were born last turn, and one of them took Philo. Damn. I like that tech as well, and have a prophet en route :(

Oh well, perhaps I can get to Theology then.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0125.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=16952_Civ4ScreenShot0125.JPG)

A damn shame these strategic line things aren't saved, plenty of screenshots are taken here by reloading. But this is an original: you can see the spots for the next 4 settlers, plus the barb town I want to conquer. First up is the sheep city: placed so that it can take up as much territory asap, thus stopping my barb worries down there (they just killed my warrior in the region, but another one is en route)

25 BC: Literature

In 25 BC, Literature is discovered. I start on the GLib in Washington immediately, but still keep 2 priests running there. I haven't come around to making cottages out of my fp yet, as I have only recently acquired pottery (very, very late for a FIN leader! Maybe I should have gone for the tech myself), and am still improving the tiles next to Boston (the great lightohuse city).

In general, I'm severaly lacking in workers, but about every new towns is starting one first. It gets protection from the units NY has been spewing out, but recently all effort went to swords to attack the barb town with (will take a couple more turns to get enough units, in the mean time they camp outside the city hoping for an attack by an archer. No luck so far.

in 50 AD, I build chicago near the sheep. I have 7 cities now, a relatively good military (not up to par with the AIs yet, but adequate), and have researched everything up to CS, Education, and Monarchy. My biggest priorities techwise are music for the GA, optics for harbors, MC, and currency (which I'll likely get through trade). I'd fancy construction as well, but decide on Music first anyway. My prophet is about to complete, and can take Theology to discover Christianity.

My score shows the same picture: this is looking good ;) Even without all my territory settled (I might still lose a spot to AIs, BTW) I'm first in score. I'm going to attack, or be attacked by Isa soon, but once the barb town has been dealt with I'll have plenty of troops, at 5 XP or above, to take care of that. This era has been nice to me in easy expansion, next era will be about a bit more difficult expansion, I think. I'm not quite ready for the consolidation step: my cities are only starting on CHs, but I've got enough financial power to expand my empire by a factor 2 without stopping research all together.

DeepO

Swissy

November 27, 2005, 11:18

Noble Level:

Tech: Monarchy, Mathematics, Alphabet, Literature, Music (Med tech and a great artist to make a masterpiece in Kassite), Code of Law (in 5)

425BC Kassite(Barbarian Kingdom) fall to my pair of chariots.
350BC Open Borders with Egypt, next turn Hinduism spreads to Memphis!
300 BC Egypt converts to Hinduism :)
275 BC Mongols convert to Confuscism and cancel open borders.
150 BC Buddhism spreads to Kassite, next turn Isabella asks me to covert, I say No
75 BC Saladin asks me to turn our backs on Egypt, we say No
1 AD Complete Pyramids in NY and Mahavira is born in Washington, he promptly directs the building of the Kashi Vishwanath!
I also switch goverments to Representaion, Slavery and Organized Religion
250 AD Egypt converts to Confucism :(
300 AD Washington completes the Hanging Gardens
325 AD I enter the Ren era by finishing up my research of Music and Homer is born in Washington. Mongols start the first war attacking Egypt.

I'll close the Classical age here as I specifically went straight to music to get my culture bomb and esentially give myself a cushion so I will be able to backfill a few more cities in and comcentrate on expanding my tech lead. I am disapointed that I was not able to get any of my religions out yet, and the Mongols have spread theirs to three other civs.

Washington size 15
New York size 10
Boston size 8
Philladelphia size 6
Kassite size 4

F9: GNP 1, Mfg 1, Crops 1, Soldiers 2, Land 1, Pop 1, Approval 7, Life 7, Imp/Exp 6

25 % of world pop, 15% of the land

Northern Empire
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/761/au100swissy325adnorth00001nk.gif

Southern Empire
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3159/au100swissy325adsouth00008qo.gif

lockstep

November 27, 2005, 11:24

Originally posted by chriseay
Everything looks ok. I feel like I am playing on too easy of a level, and I now wish I would have started this game at noble. I had reservations, but the mechanics of reporting on the game in this manner have made me think much more about each move, so I am doing much better than I have in other games. I will move up levels in the next game that I play.

Same here. I started at noble, but played more deliberate and found myself in a good position very soon (although I still made some stupid mistakes). Next game will be prince level.

lockstep

November 27, 2005, 13:04

Having founded my first religion (Confucianism) in 550 BC, I pick up some military techs (hunting - archery), then go for alphabet - literature to enable tech trading and possibly build the Great Library.

In 375 BC I capture Assyrian. In 325 BC, New York finishes the Great Lighthouse, and I finally switch to organized religion and caste system. Isabella is the first AI civ to cancel open border deals (I'm a heathen now), and Saladin follows suit. Soon, both of them want me to cancel my open border deal with Genghis Khan, but I refuse. OTOH, Hatshepsut offers me open borders - thanks, I'll take it.

In 125 BC I get alphabet and sell it to the Khan for iron working. A rather bad deal, but I need those swordsmen, and pleasing Genghis Khan is a nice side-effect. Yay, iron within Washington's city radius! Also, Moses is born in New York and creates the Kong Miao in Boston. Last but not least: my population hits 500,000.

75 BC, and my treasury from early huts (207 gold) is finally used up. I have to lower the research rate to 70% for a few turns, then settle it at 80%. Genghis Khan demands monotheism - I give in because it's a rather cheap tech and also throw in code of laws in exchange for mathematics and corn for dye. My relation to Genghis goes up all the way - is this the beginning of a long friendship?

Chicago is founded in 1 AD to the northwest of Washington, with gold in the city radius. 25 AD: Isabella demands iron working, and I tell her to shove off. I found Seattle to the east of New York in 125 AD to deny Isabella a potential city.

Around 350 AD my population has grown to 1 million. I capture a second barbarian city (Anasazi) that had developed in the far southwest. The city has no sea access, but sheep and lots of fur within its radius so I decide to keep it for short-time profit. A barbarian axeman (the first and last one) nearly retakes the city before he's killed by my horse archer. (Note to self: always check what's hidden in the last three tiles under fog-of-war.)

Speaking of soldiers: I have been building lots of archers from scratch to enlarge my city garrisons (I don't want to be no. 7 in this particular regard) and saved a few bucks to upgrade my level 2-chariots (about 7 experience points) to horse archers. Still unsure about the advisability of upgrading, but at least no AI civ has decided so far I'm an easy target.

Between 375 AD and 520 AD I succeed in building several wonders, namely the Hanging Gardens, the Great Library and Chichen Itza. I've got a healthy lead score-wise, and much earlier than in any game I've played so far! (At this point, I'm pondering about the next difficulty level, though AI bonuses still give me the creeps.)

Some bad news: The mongols manage to sneak in a city (Old Sarai) between Atlanta and Isabella's Seville, on a site that I definitely should have claimed for myself because it's only six tiles awy from my capital. So much for easy defensible borders ... but then I realize that no one has researched music so far and I have the option to do so. Can you say culture bomb? In 540 AD, I get music, enter the Middle Ages, and Homer is born :D.

Fluffybunnyfeet

November 27, 2005, 17:53

Progress

Placed an archer in the forest outside the barbarian city to soak up experience - surprisingly, the AI chose to hammer it with two attacking archers, which almost ended that experiment. Maybe two archers to soak up experience in future.

Slavery and organised religion will help. Religion has spread very quickly through my cities.

Barrack Town begins work on chariots (cheap and powerful) and archers. Some Iron suddenly appears, what luck. Time to take care of the barbarian city! The procedure is bloody but profitable, experience-wise.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=73826_au100three.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=73826_au100three.JPG)

Pains me to do it, but exlusive farming/mining at Barrack Town seems like the best way to specialise there.

Barbarian wanderers became rarer as my neighbours settle close by.

In 75 AD I get around to Alphabet. I'm surprised to find that i'm ahead on Score, and with most other civs i'm keeping up in the technology race. Also in 75AD, I achieve my first long-term goal. I found my sixth city, and even better, the cities are arranged circular fashion around my capital. I'm only just dipping into 80 percent science, and starting to build courthouses.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=73826_au100threeb.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=73826_au100threeb.JPG)

I plan to pick only the choicest city sites now, as Maintenance will become a problem very quickly.

Several competitors are getting uppity and demanding stuff. Still, can't afford to be scared until our borders meet. My soldier-producing town is working at a mighty pace, so i'm crossing my fingers for now.

Outlook

For now, I need to keep my worker population up, and largely ignore Wonders. Not sure of survival through the next era. I will pacify my neighbours and hope for the best. I have huge holes in my tech tree. Without the trading, I will have to discover each of these the hard way.

Derelict

November 27, 2005, 21:48

INDEX

Early Ancient (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162328#post4162328 )
Late Ancient -- Brief!! (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162455#post4162455)
Classical (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162514#post4162514)
Medieval: Parts 1 & 2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162899#post4162899)
Medieval: Part 3 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162902#post4162902)
Renaissance: Part 1 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164494#post4164494)
Renaissance: Part 2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164509#post4164509)
Industrial (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164909#post4164909)
Modern (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4191978#post4191978)

1,200 B.C. Jackpot! With my recent discovery of Iron (in my exceptionally short late ancient period, LOL) I now have two sources of iron available for unit production, which I fully intend to get started on, and now can further delay animal handling and horse back riding in favor of mathematics. Chances are I'll end up trading for those along the way if I can keep my focus on my intended goals.

I'll soon need to get my economy rolling however, as it is a bit lackluster so far. I'm hoping to see Washington grow to at least size 6 before too long and will generate another worker from one of the other cities to help the economy/development.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg)

725 B.C. and I am started on the Alphabet. Washington is now size 5 and starting on an aqueduct. Unfortuantely, Washington isn't exactly in the most ideal of spots for high production so I may not place the hanging gardens there, but in New York instead. Overall I'm pretty confident that I'm ahead on the race toward the hanging gardens which I'm really looking forward to getting in place--the +1 health and +1 pop will help me just that much more ahead, not to mention the engineers I hope to produce.

575 B.C. I convert to slavery and pop-rush a barracks in Washington. It is going to be my main producer of units/workers/settlers and I needed to get the barracks out of the way since New York's production will be tied up for a while. I also need to get city #4 established before too long!

475 B.C. A couple barbs harassing people around Washington but they are easily dispatched. I haven't explored to the south at all and it makes me suspect that no other civ is located below me--more incentive to keep expanding in a northernly direction first.

400 B.C. The hanging gardens are started in New York with 12 turns to go thanks to the supply of stone. As a result I won't worker-chop anything to accelerate that and, instead, save such things for the Great Library which I'll also probably produce in New York (and due to the fact I have no marble).

150 B.C. Genghis switched to police state--doubtlessly he is gearing up to slam someone, most likely Hatty or Isabella. He is on "cautious" with me so I'm not quite as concerned considering his relation and relative distance, but I'll be building a couple extra spearmen just in case.

125 B.C. and the hanging gardens is up--bam! My capacity for population (and the actual population) just got bumped up. Also traded polytheism for sailing (with Saladin) and Animal Husbandry (with Genghis). Literature is 3 turns away and I also have my fourth city, Philly, established due east of Washington (as there is yet another iron source within border expansion of it--that'll safely get me three sources for trade and as a backup if attacked).

25 A.D. and Literature is up, just in time for an open que at New York--20 turns to go on the Great Library there!.

50 A.D. Genghis gives me a buzz, asking me to kill my deals with Hatty. Since she is on the far side of him, and I have every interest in making friends with a pitbull, I agree and cancel my open borders with her. To boot, she is currently leading the game score and I'm hoping that Genghis decides to chew off a little from her. Quite frankly, Hatty has most everyone a bit annoyed with only Bismarck at cautious. She's #1 but I'm betting that won't last forever.

75 A.D. Yup, Hatty is being setup as a pinata starting with Genghis up first to bat. I quite imagine he'll be calling me soon asking to join the fray, which I'll agree too particularly if someone else has also jumped in--bonus diplomacy with someone else!

150 A.D. I move two workers down for a chop near New York. There are 15 turns left on it and frankly, I want to get it out of the way so I can start focusing on the establishment of more cities.

350 A.D. and Genghis has indeed asked me to gang up on Hatty. I'll do so but only carry on a limited pillage war with a few spare units.

375 A.D. I now have forges under foot and need to get started on monarchy--my cities are bulging at the seams and hereditary rule would be nice, for the time, to keep things in order.

400 A.D. The Great Library is built! Excellent! Even still, I feel a little behind where I should be. In many cases, playing other civs, I'd be hitting medieval before much longer and, perhaps, I'm not as far off as I feel at the moment.

500 A.D. Here's why I strongly strongly strongly dislike Isabella. She is now starting to make demands because she knows her conquistidors are right around the corner. Start ticking her off now and it'll spell almost certain trouble with her just around the corner. And once she goes aggressive on you, she'll go *really* aggressive since the latest patch. Did I mention I dislike her? Anyhow, she's demanding I give her forges. Sorry, don't think so. However, I'm going to be giving them to Genghis right now, and seeing who else I can trade with. I see a fight with Isabella in my not so distant future.

So I get Genghis on the phone and freely offer up metal casting. He is now pleased with me, but apparently not enough to trade my alphabet for his calender. OK, so be it...but things are still shaping up more or less like I might've hoped.

For now I'm kicking some military into gear in preparation for Isabella. In fact, I'm starting to consider an early pillage hit to slow up her economy going into the medieval era. I'd like to make sure I have at least a slight tech advantage over her during that time frame. Having said that, now is the time for me to decide since I have metal casting and iron working, both of which she is lacking--thankfully due to her earlier focus on religious techs it would appear. It's my guess that she is currently ranked 5th in the soldier department, though I know for sure that she has copper units that still leaves me with a small window for attacking her cities, if I'm going too. I'll make up my mind very shortly.

Furthermore, I just got Atlanta up, my 5th city. I think this is where I feel a bit behind. By now I'd prefer to have 6 and possibly even a 7th up, being that I am Washington and Code of Laws is not so far off now.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_02.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_02.jpg) | <img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_03.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_03.jpg)

520 A.D. New York produces it's first engineer. Excellent timing as this will give me a very strong tech lead on Isabella because he'll instantly discover crossbowmen for me. Given that she has bronze age units at the moment, I'm still a clear leg up on her in a military sense. New York and Philly will both be geared up to produce military for an attack as soon as possible. My hope is to take two of her cities, possibly a third, and get COL in the process to consolidate things nicely. Did I mention I don't like Isabella?

Still, I'd like to have used that engineer in other ways but this will really expand the horizons for me and firmly establish me as the world leader, assuming things go my way. Naturally, this also entered me into the Medieval era.

Caligula 37 AD

November 28, 2005, 07:37

Originally posted by chriseay

I am first in every F9 category except for trade, and far ahead in pop, prod, food and gnp. If people are bored with how well I am doing, I am willing to sit out the rest of this game and start the next a level up. As I've noted before, I am amazed how effective pop rushing can be in a game with enough happiness resources and food. It can really make up for a lack of shields.

No, please continue the game. I too am playing a game on warlord level, and I too am regreting not to play one level up. As you I am in this game thinking much more about every decision, and thus doing much better than I normally do. (DAR1 and 2 for Caligulas Trading Havens) (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162255#post4162255).
EDIT: linkt doesn't seem to work, it is #26 post on this (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144174&pagenumber=2) page.

As far as I can see we are the only two playing at warlord level, it will be nice to have at least one game to compare with. If nothing else the two of us can compare the different strategies. As you can see I do a slightly different game consentrating all my effort on trade.

I have just completed my Classical era and will post my DAR3 tonight (European time). I look forward to read the rest of your story.

- C

Thrar

November 28, 2005, 08:45

Read DAR1 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4161349#post4161349) here!
Here is DAR4 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4171349#post4171349).
And this is DAR5 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4274950#post4274950) .
DAR6 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4277989#post4277989)
DAR7 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4278024#post4278024)

1400BC: someone founds Judaism. There's a spanish village near the ivory, have to scout some more to see if I can still get some.

1160BC: 3 barbs simultaneously heading for NY. If they attack, it will go down.

1000BC: the 3 barbs came in, but one after another, in consecutive turns. Also, two of them got weakened, one by a spanish scout, another by my warrior reinforcement from Boston.

900BC: big barb problems at my 3 cities. Philadelphia founded near the ivory.

875BC: more trading: this time it's Alphabet!
Saladin: Alphabet -> Iron Working, Priesthood.
There's iron really close! Great!!

850BC: Drama comes in. Culture rate to 10% both for expanding borders and happiness.
Isabella: IW -> Monotheism. Great deal for her.
Saladin is the only one with Alphabet, and except Isabella everyone lacks at least 1 more tech. There is Sailing and Meditation known, though.

550BC: Atlanta founded up north. Not on the primary spot; Mongols were faster, but still ok. The sign says where I wanted to go.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=22592_550BC-Atlanta.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=22592_550BC-Atlanta.jpg)

500BC: Mathematics comes in. Start some research on Music, will switch to Calendar once someone is so kind as to trade me Sailing. The core builds libraries, the two cities further away theatres.

400BC: Washington finishes its library. To get those things going in the other cities, I finally switch to slavery. Still no Sailing in sight... :(

350BC: According to St. Augustine, I'm the least cultured. I guess he's right... :(

325BC: Boston can finally rush its library. Still no Sailing.

300BC: NY rushes library (2 citizens). Guess what...
Stats are interesting: I'm first (!) in GNP, last in production, 4th in food and land area, 7th in pop (very low health/happy thresholds). That GNP/production is weird, that's normally the other way round! The AI has 4-6 cities, I'm at 5.
Boston as a border city also gets a theatre.

250BC: Wheat connected!! Ok, I'd prefer a lux, but that's something! Sailing is now in stock, but Math is the least I'd have to pay. I wait, and keep going for Music (16).

175BC: Genghis reminds me of something...resource trade! Corn to him for gold. Happiness!!!

150BC: Philadelphia built theatre. Time to get those elephants back! Rushed theatre in Atlanta. Also founded Chicago in my backyard.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=22592_150BC-Chicago.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=22592_150BC-Chicago.jpg)

100BC: somebody founds Confucianism. Late, very late it seems. Of all people, it's backward Genghis!! Rush theatre in Boston. Philadelphia is already putting pressure on Sevilla's borders. ETA for elephants: 4 turns. Conveniently with camp already built. :)

75BC: We just got our own gold! Conveniently roaded and mined by Genghis! I have to correct my estimate on the elephants: ETA 1 turn! Now I'd like to cancel that gold deal with good old Genghis...but it's too early. Well, it costs him 1 lux, me only a trading opportunity (for health).

50BC: as planned, elephants arrive! Genghis comes around and demands Alphabet. I give in. Bastard. Still no Sailing.

25AD: Doh! Mongol bastard settles right next to my stone. That city seems to cry: "Flip me!" He picked the worst location I could have imagined. Nobody really wants to trade with me.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=22592_25AD-Mongolstones.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=22592_25AD-Mongolstones.jpg)

125AD: an arabian city in my backyard. I guess that comes with open borders... That one will be BAD in upkeep for him!

150AD: discover Music, enter Medieval Age. The rest of the world doesn't have Drama yet. There are tons of tech available from them, but NOBODY wants to trade!
Washington is currently building a theatre to get the next culture expansion, and flip that goddamn mongol stone city. Then start on Notre Dame. Still contemplating about the artist, if I wanna bomb the stone for faster Notre Dame. Or I just wait til it flips, after all I have a monopoly on Music and its prerequisite, Drama.
I have enough resources at the moment, no need for calendar. I go for Theology, hopefully Christianity, or at least Islam later. Hinduism is really big: 4 of 5 civs have it! It just started to arrive in America, though.
Stats: now 7th again in GNP, 5th production, 3rd food, 2nd land area. Weird, that with the GNP. 3rd in score, some distance in both directions. My land area is actually 0.02% bigger than that of Genghis - apparently the unknown civ is even bigger. One more culture growth in Atlanta (the one at 100) and it culture attacks 2 cities - one mongol, one spanish. That mongol stone city will also be flipped in a while.
I have Drama and Music ahead of everyone, some have Calendar, Mongols CoL, some Monarchy, some Metal Casting. No trades available.
Oh right, I need more workers.

Notes on the Alphabet beeline:
tech-wise, it sucks when nobody wants to trade with you. But that's always the case I guess. Once they do, I'm quite confident to turn out as tech leader again, I got 2 techs nobody has (Drama, Music).
Drama is a big thing - bigger than I thought. On Emperor, those 10% culture rate I'm running since then makes a big difference in happiness - cities get to 3 instead of 2! By now I have some more lux, so the limit is higher, typically 5 (6 w/ theatre). Theatres are another useful thing - for pushing back those enemy border expansions (from obelisks or, harder, creative leaders), and even culture attacking them! Remember that I was last in culture a few turns ago, and probably still am. What matters, is getting it in the right places, and that's what theatres do!

chriseay

November 28, 2005, 13:15

Originally posted by Caligula 37 AD

No, please continue the game. I too am playing a game on warlord level, and I too am regreting not to play one level up. As you I am in this game thinking much more about every decision, and thus doing much better than I normally do. DAR1 and 2 for Caligulas Trading Havens (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162255#post4162255). EDIT: linkt doesn't seem to work, it is #26 post on this (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144174&pagenumber=2) page.

As far as I can see we are the only two playing at warlord level, it will be nice to have at leat one game to compare with. If nothing else the two of us can compare the different strategies. As you can see I do a slightly different game consentrating all my effort on trade.

I will be happy to continue, though I am going to go for a win as soon as possible as this game is just too easy to be entertaining. I am thinking about either culture (while it would take a while it will give me goals and things to build) or space (it could be interesting to see just how early I could achieve this victory type). I don't want to go for a war based victory on this level as I feel it will lead me to using bad strategies (beyond those I might already be using) that I cannot use later and because of the amount of time it will take in a game that I am not completely enjoying. Any suggestions on which victory to go for are appreciated.

I was happy when I saw another warlord game, as I felt like when I was reading other DAR's they were different games, because it was so easy for me to expand and stay ahead of the AI in every category, and all without confrontation. I will play the turns and write/post the DAR for the medieval period tonight.

DeepO

November 28, 2005, 13:16

Originally posted by Derelict
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg)

Derelict, just a small suggestion: if you use the upload service, there are 5 links you can copy in your posts. You picked the normal thubmnail one, but there is also a 800 pixel one. This looks better...

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_01.jpg)

I like the DAR, BTW. Well, in general I must say I'm very much enjoying following everyone's game!

DeepO

Caligula 37 AD

November 28, 2005, 16:04

Originally posted by chriseay

I will be happy to continue, though I am going to go for a win as soon as possible as this game is just too easy to be entertaining. I am thinking about either culture (while it would take a while it will give me goals and things to build) or space (it could be interesting to see just how early I could achieve this victory type). I don't want to go for a war based victory on this level as I feel it will lead me to using bad strategies (beyond those I might already be using) that I cannot use later and because of the amount of time it will take in a game that I am not completely enjoying. Any suggestions on which victory to go for are appreciated.

I was happy when I saw another warlord game, as I felt like when I was reading other DAR's they were different games, because it was so easy for me to expand and stay ahead of the AI in every category, and all without confrontation. I will play the turns and write/post the DAR for the medieval period tonight.

This is my thoughts exactly. I might be writing shorter DARs for the remaining of the game, just to save time (I'm closing on 10hrs already).

However us playing on lower levels might be usful to the occational reader. After all we are not participating in the AU only for ourselves. I can only guess, but I think the occational reader and player often plays levels beneath Noble, and maybe our lower game DARs are useful to them. When someone comes around to organize this DARs into a readable fromat, this Warlord games might be the ones our guests read first.
(somebody stop me before I turn into an :good: !)

To the victory issue:
I too would like to complete this game early. We will both find ourselves way ahead in the tech race soon. This means, I think, two easy ways to win: domination and space race. For culture I think I have spread it to much, and lost some early important WWs. You could do it though, as you have more hammers for WWs.
I wasn't really trying my best to win this game at the earliest years, my prime goal was to see what happens if I consentrate on trade in every thought. That means neglecting some of the more obvious choices like religion and wonders for GP's. I had a theory that this might work for a commercial civ like the americans.
Lets play another era, shall we, and maybe we can find a common goal as the game commences?

- C

Anyway: DAR3 "The Classical era of Caligulas Financial Havens" is ready for shipment:

Derelict

November 28, 2005, 16:05

Originally posted by DeepO

Derelict, just a small suggestion: if you use the upload service, there are 5 links you can copy in your posts. You picked the normal thubmnail one, but there is also a 800 pixel one. This looks better...

[ Image removed for brevity ]

I like the DAR, BTW. Well, in general I must say I'm very much enjoying following everyone's game!

DeepO

Glad you like the DAR--I was hoping it was interesting since it was my first attempt at one!

As to the thumbnail sizes, I'll keep that in mind and will probably do so for the more important screens in future ones, though, for example, my medieval era DAR(s) have 21 pic's! It'd crowd the thread up pretty well if I were to do all of them at the larger size, I'm forced to think, but as you point out it's probably ideal for me to do the larger image/thumbnails when there are fewer in a particular report.

That makes me wonder...do most people tend to upload larger images than 800 X 640? I've been reducing most all of my screens to that size for upload, in consideration of speed and storage size alike. Would people prefer larger screens and the larger thumbnails in general? I guess most people have high bandwidth connections these days, or many if not most, so it might not be as big of a deal.

Caligula 37 AD

November 28, 2005, 16:06

DAR3: The financial haven of Caligula IX
A rather short DAR this is. Not many turns played, and notes were alas scarce...

Overall strategy
Will try to make a strong commercial civ by developing trade havens in coastal cities.

Recap status from DAR1&2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4162255#post4162255):

4 Cities (3 on Coast). (size7+2+3+1)
Total commerce: 30(all base) Total beakers(90%): 24bpt, Total gold(10%): 6gpt
Trade: 1 route in each city for 5 commerce (2 from Karakorum to capitol)
Strategy evaluation: In the beginnig of the Classical era my coastal cities were still poor. In this era I it will be revealed what the Great Light does to that.

Starting this rounds turns
Beginning the Classical era by trading possible techs, starting with the lowest scorer.
mysticism(t), archery(t), animal hus(t). Mainly beaker for beaker. Bismarck won't trade Iron working (that’s understandable)
I have contact with 5 of the other 6 civs, suspect the last one being isolated.
We are way ahead of the others regardning score at the start of the era.

1520: Judaism founded somewhere. The Woodsman II-killing barbarians from back in 2400 (read DAR1) are spotted near Philly, but we withstand the urge to hunt them down (for now).
Remembering I have to bulid a Temple in my Woodsmen's honour.
975: Discovering Compass for Harbours, hitting on Drama. Harbours are some of the major buildings for the strategy as they give +50% on trade routes.

The effect of the Great Light: (In Boston)
925: Commerce in 4 cities total (16+10+12+6=44)
900: Commerce in 4 cities total (16+14+16+8=54). This is a substantial difference, but no more than expected.
Well it is still early game.

800: Hinduism spread to New York, swich to state religion for closing friendship with the #2 and 3 on the score list.
775: Atlanta founded on the shores west of capitol. Again not on recomended blue tile, but maximize the number of
workable coast tiles according to strategy. Hey! There are NO trade routes??? Possibly there are no available foreign cities?
Correction 750BC: 3 internal trade routes in Atlanta, each of +1cpt.
I guess the trade is not shown until first turn of existence.

750: Gjenghis disliking us trading with Hatty, give him Mystisim to calm him down (dont know if that has any effect, though)

325: Discovering Music, Enetring Medieval era.
Got a GA in Capitol. He is on his way with an escort to Philly to become a super specialist.
I won't however use him as a cultural bomb as this might affect my relations with Gjenghis more than I am ready for.
I really want Philly to achive greatness according to her potential, but she still needs a worker, wich she will train herself.

The end of classical era. Status:

5 Cities (4 on Coast). (size8+5+5+4+3)
Total commerce: 77 Total beakers(90%): 80/Turn, Gold in coffers: 128 (+1/Turn)
Trade: Good! :ana: My five cities have a total of 13 trade routes for a total of 23 cpt.
9 of the trade routes are to foreign cities generating 18 of the cpt.
Military: Totaly sux. I will need to correct that quickly, even on warlord level such a weak military force
will call the AI's to you like sharks to a wounded mafioso.
Tech wise: I have gone far up in the tree (music) and have dropped several essential early techs (Meditation).
Many available techs now take only 1 turn to complete. Since no one except Hatty will trade with me (some can't)
I will have to do the research myself. Hatty offers only tech trade to her own advantage +100beakers or so.
I will do currency (for extra trade routes) before backfilling, then maybe the two next religions if my defence minister will accept it.

F9 wise: 1st in money, food, area, pop and trade (export32/import16 rival average 2/2 mohahahah!), mfg: 5th, military:4th.
Diplo and religion: Hatty and Bimarck are all "happy and smile" as Hidu, Gjenghis is a +3 Hindu,
Izzy is a cold bitsj heathen (Buddist) at -4 (I think she is too weak to be a threat though), Saladin, the only
remaining pagan on the continent is at +2. I must teach him the right ways if I come to it, hopefully also the others will. I must teach my own people it too, only NY on state religion so far, Phillys pray in the Synagoges of Judaism.
Religious strategy at this point is to found all the remaining ones, but not swich. This will be a happy place if everyone
read their Vedas and obey Krishna, Vishnu and Shiva. (There will probably be trouble anyway, but one might hope)

Strategy evaluation:
My coast cities are now starting to look good. It is a little worrying though that Atlanta has no foreign trading partners.
This might be a major drawback to my strategy if there is only a limited number of foreign trade routes allowed. I will have
to find the mysterious 7th civ soon and see if more foreign trade can be established.

Game mechanics: I am not sure if the harbors are up to speed, they should give 50% bonus trade. For now I only
have +2 trade routes, some should have been +3 I think. Boston is building Harbor now, I will watch the effects closely.

There is a barbarian city in the middle of my country (well I see it as mine, there are just no americans living there yet:)).
These barbs might have created a 6th city for me. I will take it by swords or maybe elephants.

DeepO

November 28, 2005, 16:56

Originally posted by Derelict
That makes me wonder...do most people tend to upload larger images than 800 X 640?
I simply use the in-game ones (1024x768). I upload too many pictures to start cropping them ;)

I think I might have more upload space then you, though. Keep in mind that the AU threads are in general reread long after they finish: you may need to keep your pictures around.

I've been reducing most all of my screens to that size for upload, in consideration of speed and storage size alike. Would people prefer larger screens and the larger thumbnails in general? I guess most people have high bandwidth connections these days, or many if not most, so it might not be as big of a deal.
Well, I figure that by the time you read the text, any connection will have loaded the pictures that goes with it ;)

If you want to show a lot of pictures, divide your DAR a bit into different posts: I'll generally try to keep it down to ~5 pictures each post. That way, the thread will faster start on the next page, which will improve loading time. Don't start posting 50 posts per DAR, though ;)

DeepO

chriseay

November 28, 2005, 17:38

Originally posted by Caligula 37 AD

This is my thoughts exactly. I might be writing shorter DARs for the remaining of the game, just to save time (I'm closing on 10hrs already).

However us playing on lower levels might be usful to the occational reader. After all we are not participating in the AU only for ourselves. I can only guess, but I think the occational reader and player often plays levels beneath Noble, and maybe our lower game DARs are useful to them. When someone comes around to organize this DARs into a readable fromat, this Warlord games might be the ones our guests read first.
(somebody stop me before I turn into an :good: !)

To the victory issue:
I too would like to complete this game early. We will both find ourselves way ahead in the tech race soon. This means, I think, two easy ways to win: domination and space race. For culture I think I have spread it to much, and lost some early important WWs. You could do it though, as you have more hammers for WWs.
I wasn't really trying my best to win this game at the earliest years, my prime goal was to see what happens if I consentrate on trade in every thought. That means neglecting some of the more obvious choices like religion and wonders for GP's. I had a theory that this might work for a commercial civ like the americans.
Lets play another era, shall we, and maybe we can find a common goal as the game commences?

- C

Both excellent points. I hadn't thought about how other people will be reading these, and the fact that many of them might be people who know next to nothing about civ, but did a google search and found us.

On the victory front, you're right about culture. I went in and looked at my save, and while I could do it, I don't think I focused quite enough on it up to this point. I'm going to beeline for space race techs and see how early I can launch.

Morrissey

November 28, 2005, 18:14

DAR1 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164182#post4164182)
DAR2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164215#post4164215)
DAR3 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4164294#post4164294)
DAR4 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4167267#post4167267)
DAR5 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4167274#post4167274)
DAR6 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4167275#post4167275)
DAR7 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4167298#post4167298)

OK, this DAR can be summed up by three letters - REX. Well as Rapid as Civ 4 will allow... in fact, think about it, this DAR can be summed up in two letters - EX (pansion).

In 650BC, my new poor little unprepared city to the north of Boston (next to the mountains north of the start) gets destroyed by an evil barbarian! One turn later, I destroy that evil barbarian (just didn't quite make it in time). Another settler is being built, so it'll be built back up again and a swordsman is on his way to protect the little city, as well as a warrior and an archer wandering about up there. A few turns later, I discover there's a barb city to the north-west and the next turn, I see one to the south-west! I fear an impending babarian invasion, so start building a few swords (as well as settlers).

Genghis declares war on Hats around this time too. Hats asks me to join, which I decline, but manage to trade (her) meditation for (my) monotheism. Whilst they're fighting away, I manage to take over the SW barb city with one swordsman. I saw it was defended by two warriors, so decided to have a stab (literally). Meanwhile, the expansion continued....

Genghis made peace with Hats in 150AD, with no cities trading hands on either side. A few turns later, Genghis demands iron from me. Realising it'd be silly to give him this, I say nope, although make a mental note to build up my military.

Salad takes the NW barb city in 375AD, as my military focused on getting my settlers around OK and not on that city. This means he has a city to the west of me, which I wasn't planning on letting anyone doing, but he can't get any units there as I don't have open boarders with anyone and won't have until everwhere's settled. Start trading (my) corn for (his) crabs to keep him happy (or appeased) for now. Also sell Polytheism for 160 gold to him as this expansion's hurting my economy.

In 760 AD Genghis declared war on Hats, again. Also Salad cancels the corn for crabs deal, but I get ivory for insense instead.

980AD - all areas I want to settle in are now settled. This means that I can now have open boarders with everyone. Although it seems only Bismark and Isabella are interested, everyone else is annoyed with me. Also swap techs with Bismark (Monarchy and HBR).

1030AD - enter Medieval era.

For the people that like stats, here's mine.

14 cities (good)
9 workers (bad), 10 archers, 1 chariot, 2 warriors, 2 spearmen, 3 axemen, 6 swordsmen and 1 galley.
I've also built the pyramids, which I forgot to make a note of, but it's there. Also the Hanging Gardens is nearly complete (in the same city).

Plans for the future is to build units of all kinds (except settlers). Economy is in bad shape, but I seem to be keeping up in science. I can see someone declaring on me soon, probably Genghis, so will build up some military in preperation. I think the main thing for now is WORKERS!!! I needs them!

polarnomad

November 29, 2005, 02:44

So, having not really been able to explore nearby territory, I now find that I have barbarian cities on 3 sides. Bactrian to the southwest (which I quickly conquer and rename Pittsburgh), Olmec to the east (which I raze because it is poorly placed in my opinion (I found Philadelphia nearby), and Assyrian to the north (which I will conquer in my next DAR). Incidentally I remember someone in another thread mentioning that if you don't remove the fog-of-war quickly, you are more likely to find barb cities later... Perhaps this is indeed the case, and could even be turned into a strategy by someone who might not want to pump out settlers as quickly, instead concentrate on military units, and then use them to take barb cities that appear. Thereby, gaining exp for the units and cities for "free", albeit sometimes in slightly wrong locations...

Otherwise, my lack of religion continues to bother me. I narrowly miss Christianity in 300AD. Washington's unhappiness continues to rise and the only way I can find to alleviate it somewhat is by linking up fur in Pittsburgh. Isabella starts spreading Judaism in my cities, but I am loathe to convert since Spain is the weakest civ and just next door. I would rather try to get Islam if possible, or convert to Egyptian Christianity and get chummy with Hatty who is #1 at the moment. So far there is only one religious camp. Bismark, Genghis and Saladin are all Buddhist, and for a while Hatty was too, but once she founded Christianity she quickly converted.

Incidentally, I have open border agreements with everyone except Genghis. Hatty asked me to cancel my agreements with Genghis earlier and I did, which I thought could make the game interesting, but seeing that Genghis is now in league with Bismark and Saladin, I'm starting to think I was the wrong decision...

In other news, Isabella decides to be sneaky and found a city right on the edge of the eastern peninsula, just a few tiles from Philadelphia. I can feel a war coming along soon.

My immediate goals for the Medieval era are to start a war with Isabella, and take the Barbarian city of Assyrian.

The date is currently 540AD.

Western empire:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/polarnomad/540ADWest.jpg

Eastern empire:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/polarnomad/540ADEast.jpg

Dubhghlas

November 29, 2005, 11:32

The Classical Era

To recap: The Scots have spent the previous seven hundred years working solely on perfecting the use of a method of organized writing symbols to represent sounds (Alphabet). In the meantime, they built libraries in New York and Boston, while the capital trained a series of workers and settlers so that the clan could expand and grow. The Dubhghlasses hope to seal all other peoples of the world out of the area to sunsetward and to coldward with a string of cities running from near Washington to near Boston.

Abroad, the Scots are aligning themselves with the Egyptians, engaging in friendly trading of knowledge. The Mongols loom ever nearer to Boston, though the Khans of Genghis are so far still friendly. The unfriendly Spanish, ruled by the Itchybellies, keep mostly to themselves across the desert located in the direction of the rising sun. The Arabs have built down the coast north of Boston; a city called Baghdad can be found along that coast, across a river.

The Scots hope to further encourage their bent for knowledge and understanding by fostering the writing of tomes of knowledge, stories, poems, manuals, and so forth. However, the shamen have insisted that the clan devote some years to pacifying the spirits and gods of the world; they have been shaken by the news of mighty places of worship in far away lands. They threaten the Scottish people with the wrath of the gods of the world if the Scots do not build shrines and temples to the gods. With barbarians roaming the borders to both sunrise and sunset, this does not seem far-fetched.

The Barbarian Incursions

Four hundred years have gone by. For most of this time, the Scots have suffered at the hands of barbarian raiders. Long had the barbarians roamed the lands to sunsetward of the Scots, rarely venturing closer. But shortly after the founding of Philadelphia in the Great Bend of the Dubhghlas River, barbarians started pouring into the Scots lands from the direction of the rising sun, across the desert and the hills. Boston and Washington came under repeated attack. Often, the raiders would stop to ruin the works in the lands around the cities; but eventually they would attack the city itself and they would be defeated and hunted down.

Just about the time that a new batch of settlers had been recruited in New York, to be sent to the coast located to the warmer climes slightly sunsetward of that city, barbarians began pouring out of that quadrant. It takes 200 years for the barbarian raiders to be rooted out completely from the lands around New York; at one point the timid warriors of that city stayed behind the city walls refusing to attack while the raiders destroyed the farmlands feeding the city.

During the incursions, the Scots generally prospered. Boston completed its library, and started work on a marvelous obelisk, tribute to the gods and the favor they have shown the Scots. New York began work on a very mighty wonder, a building in which they will give thanks to the Virgin goddess that shelters them from harm; they hope this will prevent further barbarian troubles. Taking its name from the Virgin goddess, it will be called the Parthenon. This will take them years to construct. Meanwhile, Boston finishes its relatively puny obelisk and starts work on training archers to protect it.

Shortly after discovering the so-called alphabet, the Scots are dismayed to learn that the Mongols have settled near to Boston. The Mongols are not to be trusted, the Dubhghlasses feel; it becomes quite apparent that Boston will have to be a strong and mighty city, a beacon of all that is Scots for the world to see. Fortunately, deposits of copper are found near Boston, and work begins on mining them. But Egypt, Spain and the Arabs all develop a caste of priests at the same time, giving their gods more power. The Germans have an even more amazing thing happen. A German man is nailed to a cross for asserting that the world would be a better place if everyone would just love everyone else. This spawns a religious reaction. The Scots shake their head at this news; everyone knows that the world is a dour place and that saving money and accepting fate is the only way to endure it.

Thus do things stand. The Egyptians have finished a marvelous Oracle temple. But the Scots have completed the task of codifying and legitimizing the worship of the gods and have established a strong tradition of organized writing, called Literature. They now work to appease the gods again with an priest caste, whose task will then be to codify all the laws under which the Scots live, and write them down. This will enable them to apply the same law in all their cities, allowing the Dubhghlasses to reduce petty theft and waste.

Washington works on it's own library. It is a big city now, with too many souls to count, a handful of handful of hundred hundreds, at a guess. It is unhealthy there, and the citizens are unhappy, but the leaders ignore them and insist that work continue on the library. Ghengis, the “Great Khan”, slyly offers to teach the secret of pottery works to help improve the health of the Scots, but his desire for horses is palpable that the Scots have no trouble saying no. Better a sick mother in the house than one sick mutha for a king!

The Way to Ren

For fully 400 more years the Scots have worked to expand and perfect themselves. In Boston, there is work ongoing on an Epic about the Scots; the hope is that it will inspire great things out of pride in the Scots and their grand achievements. The settlers of Philadelphia have begun farming the lands surrounding their city and are working on their own library. The work on the Parthenon continues in New York. In Washington, the library was completed, but the people there are prideful and intend a much grander design, a “Great Library” containing all the written works of the world. Those who argue for pragmatic things like more military companies or a granary to store food are shouted down and ridiculed. A cadre of workers was recruited, first, to help improve the land and the roads.

Atlanta was founded in the year 3625 (AN: 375 BC). It sits upon the peninsula that sticks out into the Ocean of Warmth directly to sunset from Boston. The hope of these people is to become great traders and sellers of goods and other things, with which trade they hope to make themselves quite wealthy and allow even more effort to go into improving the Scottish people. They have a hard path ahead of them, but the sea is bountiful, much more so than the jungle that surrounds their city.

The Egyptians have continued to be helpful. Hatsheptsut allows the mystery of pottery to be given to the Scots in exchange for learning the mystery of pictoral writing. The Dubhghlasses hope to begin the building of small towns in the lands around the great cities, and to build great granaries for the storage of harvested grain to use in times of famine. But the struggle to increase their knowledge is difficult for the Scots. While other tribes perfect things like Meditation, the working of Iron, and the worship of only one, Supreme God, the priests of the Scots busily attempt to codify Scots law. The focus on great works is costing the Scots chances to found new cities; no one wants to leave and start a new city when a wonderous construction project is providing work for the young men. Yet there is danger in this path, for the Scots are aware that other peoples also aspire to great works. News of gigantic tombs built in the shape of pyramids reaches Washington, though the people who built them are still an unknown entity (AN: England).

Into such uncertainty a shining beacon of light suddenly shines. While working to help codify the laws, a Scot by the name of Connefushis begins to put together a way of thinking about life. After several years, when he is an old man, he begins teaching this Way to students. It stresses the need to think more about how you interact with your fellow man than how you work to achieve your own needs. His influence is felt in the final codification of the Scots Law, and his students now work zealously to convert their fellow Scots to this new way of thinking. Confushunism is born in New York, just 50 years short of the celebration of year 4000!

Author's Note: I'm breaking up the DAR here on purpose; others have opnined, and I agree, that stock should be taken of the situation at the turn 1 AD.

The Classical Era to this point has been a slog. Some positives include the founding of Philly and Atlanta, but the rampage of barbarians was a pain in the neck from 850 to 450 BC. This was mostly because I still at that time hadn't spent much effort on military units like horse archers so that I could confront the barbarians in the field far from the cities. Stupid, that, given that I researched horseback riding just for that purpose! As a result, I have had to rebuild infrastructure, and the founding of Atlanta was literally pushed back eight or nine turns!

Speaking of Atlanta, this city is a gamble. That peninsula looked so juicy for settling and taking advantage of the wonderful bonus that my leader gets on squares with commerce of two, which will apply to all the coastal squares. That will be eight of the fat cross' 20! And this way, only one impassable peak is in the fat cross. A better spot would be one square to the east, but that's ocean and, well, unlike Call to Power, you don't get to settle there. :D But Atlanta is surrounded by jungle and has very little production capability, so I'll have to be very careful what to build there, which hardly explains why I started with the soon to be obsolete obelisk!! However, I need to grow it's cultural influence fast so that Baghdad and the Arabs get shut down from coming down the coast any further.

Again, as with the last DAR period, I find that researching well ahead of the time is costly. Code of Laws took from 400 BC to 50 BC to research. Meanwhile, the other civs are filling in the much less costly lower level techs. I'm going to be first to Music, I am certain, but I'm increasingly uncertain that I can justify this path. Oh, well, on your sword, if not with it!

My Empire is doing well (see the screenie). Five cities, (8, 6, 6, 3, 1), and second place in points behind Egypt only. My Confucian missionary is going to spread the religion to Boston, where the cultural boundaries are crucial in the eventual war with the Mongols north and east of me. On to Monarchy and wine, women, and song!

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=57320_1ADEmpire.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=57320_1ADEmpire.JPG)

Cort Haus

November 29, 2005, 12:03

To the Warlord players (Caligula & Chriseay) - congrats for outgrowing that level during this game. The power of the AU is that documenting your play and reading other players' accounts raises your game rapidly. I'm not quite ready to step up from Prince to Monarch, as I haven't mastered Civics Management yet, or learned the tech tree (especially in the later game) and Monarch looks like a very big leap in difficulty, but I'm a lot closer than I was before this course. Enjoy Noble level - I doubt you'll be there for long ;)

Dubhghlas

November 29, 2005, 12:43

The Anti-Barbarian Crusade

The Scots had had enough. Time and time again, Barbarian warriors had menaced their cities from over the Great Desert. Boston, New York, Washington, all had had to rebuild their farms, their pastures, their roads as a result of raider pillaging. Someone had to put a stop to it.

The movement took hold in Boston. A courageous young leader of men trained and gathered up a cadre of archers who could shoot while astride horses. These men, barely a full company, went off to lands across the desert to hunt out the fabled city of the barbarians. Fantastic stories of animals tall as houses, and other wonders near this city did not deter them.

And they were just in time. Another band of raiding warriors was found lurking in the forests near New York and dispatched. Then, just as the city which called itself Avar was found, Mongolian warriors astride horses began to approach. Knowing that the Mongols would gladly take and plunder the city for themselves, the young Scots warriors pressed on in an attack and caught the city defended only by drunken men carrying clubs and the like. They were dispatched with ease, and the Scots took the city for themselves. After a short period, the city accepted its fate, and now labors to perfect itself.

The Dubhghlasses are beginning to hear criticism from the people. The Mongol horse warriors could not have existed if the Dubhghlasses had not consented to let the Great Khan have the secret of horse taming in return for learning about Meditation and the worship of One God. The people ridicule this trade, for they see not much purpose in meditation, and they do not think much of the concept of gods, for with the Way of Connefushis, it is not divine providence, but rather inner understanding of li, yi and ren that leads to a better life. The Mongol horse warriors are reputedly fierce and deadly; the Scots do not look forward to facing them. Why couldn't the Dubhghlasses have wrested the secret of working the new metal “iron” from the Mongols, instead?

Still, Boston has completed its Scottish Epic; already it draws the best and the brightest to the city. Atlanta has its obelisk, and has begun to work on a lighthouse so that boats can fish the abundant waters around the city without finding the many shoals and rocks that lie just off the point of the peninsula upon which the city sits. Work on the Parthenon and the so-called Great Library continue; Boston has plans to build a grand work of its own, a pyramid of stone upon which the priests and the monks can engage in their rituals to the glory of all. It is felt this will inspire the people to greater deeds in defense of the cities of the Scots. But other, more practical building projects intervene: first a granary, then a monastery. And in Washington, the great scientist, Merit Ptah, constructed his academy of learning.

Finally, the Dubhghlasses have instituted a formal practice of having a single ruler from their family, always a direct descendant of the prior ruler. “The” Dubhghlas he is known; the women are excluded from this process unless under the most dire of circumstances, when no male heirs are around. This switch was initiated along with the institution of a formal “religion” (though many dispute that the Way of Connefushis is really a religion), and the codification of a system of castes to provide structure to the lives of people. The barbarians are conquered, the Scots are ready for great things!

The Rebirth of Understanding

It is some 600 years since the Dissemination of Connefushunism to Boston; the scholars now use that point as a break in numbering years. For 4000 years prior, the years are numbered backward and the term BC is added (Before Connefushunism). Since then, each year is numbered counting up, and the term AD (After Dissemination) is added.

But the scholars have done little more than that. They seem accepting of what has come before, and not very interested in finding out new things. All the great advances have come not from men of learning, but from men of doing. Not since the great project to create an Alphabet, and to inspire a system of literature using it, have the men of wisdom done much.

This is about to change, however. The scholars have received a re-awakening, a clarion call to action. Men whose interest was in music, in songs and in chants, in ceremony and in easy listening, whose pasttime was the grand organ and the simple shephard pipeflute, have systematized notation and thinking about music. They have shown it to be susceptible to mathematical thinking. They have organized how to think about such things as rhythm, meter, tone and chording. With this knowledge, a torrent of musical works begins to pour out of Washington. And other artists are inspired to compete. But to paint or sculpt the body requires knowledge of how it works. To draw in perspective requires knowledge of how we see. The scholars realize their potential, and are energized.

Thus comes the Rebirth of Understanding. For two hundred years this awakening has been in the making. The Scots are spurred by the challenge of the peoples around them. The Arabs have founded a city in the lands near to Atlanta, lands the Scots hoped to hold for themselves someday. The Spanish, unhappy since the founding of the state “religion” of Connefushunism, have been pushing at the borders with warriors, scouting out defenses. The Mongols grow increasingly less friendly, as do the Arabs. The Spanish, the Germans and the Mongols have instituted formal calendaring systems, which help them keep track of time with a precision unknown to the Scots, who are generally happy to be in time for their dinner. The Scots emissaries write of the Mongols and the Germans having constructed bridges over rivers out of stone, and the Mongols now use a formal system of coinage to enhance their trade. No one will trade this knowledge to the Scots, so the Scots must forge ahead on their own (Genghis, the Great Khan, did offer up Iron Working, but the Scots had to pay for it with the secret of writing).

Still, the Rebirth sees a grand empire of Scots. The Parthenon, completed in 450 AD in New York, inspires a greatness throughout the Scots lands. New York hopes to send settlers to the sunsetwardside of Washington, into lands the Scots have always promised for their progeny. Philadelphia, too, expects any day to send settlers to sunsetward, to bracket the new Arab city. Avar, the Captured City, is hunting elephants for their ivory, and training defenders for its city, while Atlanta has finished its lighthouse and works on a granary to store food. Washington still toils on its “Great” library, while Boston works on its wierdly named “Chichen Itza”, which detractors claim translates to “Foolish Waste of Time” in Mongol.

With the Rebirth has arrived a poet extraordannaire. Calling himself simply Homer, he heads to Boston to work on creating a grand poem of classical tales. The result should be a grand explosion of culture from that city into the surrounding lands. The Dubhghlas approves, and hopes that the scholars can soon come up with their intended method for guiding ships at sea, whereupon they will institute the beginnings of a Civil Service, which will allow a better form of government. No thought of swords and the like for the Scots!

Author's Note (brief): Well, another period of expansion is coming. However, I have probably dallied too long, in my effort to produce various wonders and such. The Arab city of Kufah was a real blow; it's poorly placed, and it will limit the reach of the city I expect to found West of Philadelphia. Plus, it will cause trouble with Saladin, that much is certain, because he will need to go through my lands to get to it.

Of six wonders built, only one was built by me, The Parthenon. The Sistine Chapel is already built in Egypt, which has also built the Oracle, Stonehenge and the Great Lighthouse. Hatchysoupy is a pain when it comes to building things.

No wars yet, and that is surprising. Boston is eating into both Turfan and Baghdad's cultural borders. Spain is a religious fanatic and doesn't like my choices in that regard. I'd have thought Genghis would be on my case by now; I expect it will happen soon. But I get along with Egypt, and Germany pretty much ignores me.

I have a feeling the next roughly 600 years are going to be VERY interesting.:lol:

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=57320_600ADEndofClassicalEra.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=57320_600ADEndofClassicalEra.JPG)

chriseay

November 29, 2005, 13:09

Originally posted by Cort Haus
To the Warlord players (Caligula & Chriseay) - congrats for outgrowing that level during this game. The power of the AU is that documenting your play and reading other players' accounts raises your game rapidly. I'm not quite ready to step up from Prince to Monarch, as I haven't mastered Civics Management yet, or learned the tech tree (especially in the later game) and Monarch looks like a very big leap in difficulty, but I'm a lot closer than I was before this course. Enjoy Noble level - I doubt you'll be there for long ;)

Thanks!! The funny thing about this whole experience is I've been playing civ since I was 10 or 11 years old and I've been reading forums here and at CFC since probably 2000, but I never put any effort into getting any good at the game. The best I was ever able to do in Civ3 was warlord, and that was only sometimes. I had troubles on chieftan.

Once I decided that not only did I want to spend a lot of time playing this game, but that I wanted to play well, it became much more fun. I enjoyed my warlord games immensely, even this one until I realized I was just that far ahead of the curve. I'm sure I'll enjoy my higher level games more, because the greater challenge will provide greater rewards.

It just shows the beauty of this series. I spent so many hours playing civ 1, civ 2, civ 2 multiplayer, civ 3, ptw, c3c and I enjoyed the vast majority of them at relatively low difficulties. Now I plan to play CIV at higher levels, and it looks like it's going to be the most enjoyment I've ever had with the series.

DeepO

November 29, 2005, 13:42

joncnunn

November 30, 2005, 20:27

Jon's Dar AU 101 : Noble. Version 1.09

Dar III The Classical Era (475 BC to 425 AD)

475 BC: Started researching Monarchy for the Wine

375 BC: The Parthagon built in a far away land. Founded Chicago

350 BC: Tacitus declares that we have the second largest land area, behind the Mongles

325 BC: Judism spreads to Philadelphia. Culture expands in Atlanta. The Great Lighthouse build in a far away land.

300 BC: Stone connected to the trade network. Queue the Pryamids to start construction in New York as soon as the Temple completes there.

250 BC: Construction of the Pryraimds begins in New York. Thanks to stone, scheldued to complete in 21 turns

Trade with Salidin: Pristhood + Monotheism for Sailing + Archery

225 BC: Start reseraching Code of Law. Two fold : Cheap Courthouses & also chance of founding Confucism

Christianity founded in a distlant land. Salian switches to Theocracy. Salian adopts Christianity.

200 BC: Pigs connected to the trade network. Seatle founded. Science lowered to 90%.

125 BC: Wine connected to the trade network. Science lowered to 80%.

100 BC: Arabs cancel the open borders agreement. We now have half a million people.

75 BC: Borders of Philadelphia expand

50 BC: Confucism founded in Barcelonia. Oops, I let Washington grow too big. Well, the temple is only three turns from completion.

25 BC: Mongolonian city expands and retakes its first ring.

50 AD: Drama started, as a prelude to Music.

125 AD: Confucism spreads to Atlanta

175 AD: Pryiamds are built in a far away location. (2 turns from completion in New York) Wheat connected to the trade network.

225 AD: Increase science to 100%. Switch to no state relgion. Start anarchy to switch to Caste System + Pagism.
Sell Monarchy for Math [Arabs] & Iron Working [Mongols].
Open the boarders with all civs

275 AD: Implement a 10% culture tax (more for happiness reasons than culture) and start reseraching Music

300 AD: Borders of Boston expand

325 AD: Mongols declare war on Egypt. Good thing I'd switched to no state religion.

350 AD: Budism spreads to Seatle. Iron mine constructed. No need for a road to connect due to the river.

425 AD: A Great Scientist is born in Waashington.
Normally, I would build an academy with a Great Scientist, but considering I'll get Philosphacy, a religious tech right away, I go for that instead.

You have entered the Midevil era.
You have founded Taoism [in Boston]
Use the free Taoism missonary in Chicago. Taoism has spread to Chicago. We now have a religion in every city.

End of Dar III

The American empire is in much better shape at the end of the Classical era.

We went from #3 in score to #1. Mostly on the techs trades, particularly the selling the same tech twince to different players.

We now have peaceful relations with our neighbors thanks to our shrewd policy of forgoing a state religion.

And with Iron, we are starting to build Swords that will bring the Libyan barbarians into our empire.

Rhothaerill

November 30, 2005, 20:32

Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 1 - Prince Difficulty

After a decent game so far as detailed in [[[[[DAR 1]]]]], DAR 2 proves that I’m definitely still learning this game with some of the mistakes I made. I’ve been going for something of a “protected growth” strategy so far which meant Stonehenge wasn’t too high on my list. I also hadn’t aggressively pursued the religion portion of the tree until recently so the Oracle wasn’t even remotely a possibility. Plus at this point I hadn’t yet discovered any stone or marble to speed up the builds of either of those. My exploration attempts were seriously curtailed early with several of my first few warriors losing to barbarian animals and warriors. It was nice to have iron in my cities though as that meant I could start popping out a few swordsmen to take care of barbarian menaces and get going on exploring the continent again (and a sidenote: I never saw anything east of the desert east of my capitol. I hadn’t explored over there, and by the time I was ready to begin exploring that way Isabella had occupied the area and wouldn’t let me through.) But much later in the game I made her pay for that. :D

1370bc – Judaism is discovered elsewhere in the world. This was a bit of a blow to me as I had just devoted time to three straight religion path techs and was just about to discover it myself. I decided to immediately switch off to animal husbandry so I could improve the pig tile in the newly founded city of Boston.

For this city I had two initial goals with it, one to become my first big production city with the hills and forests (and iron tile) surrounding it. The pig tile and stealing the corn from Washington every so often would also play a big part in that. Second Boston was initially earmarked as a military production city. That would later be modified somewhat, but in the early going a barracks and military units were the order of the day. On that note I do really like the fact that it is easier to specialize cities in Civ4 because of the wealth of options available in tile improvement, specialists, etc. City specialization in Civ3 was good, but having a city entirely devoted to commerce wasn’t as viable in that game, nor was it easy to make captured cities a viable producer.

1280bc – Meet Saladin. Interestingly enough he wasn’t one of the ones to discover an early religion despite being spiritual. I can only conjecture that he went down the meditation path and missed it and didn’t go on to the polytheism path until after someone else discovered it first (Elizabeth as it turned out who has inexplicably discovered three religions in this game).

1160bc – Finish research on animal husbandry and move on to researching writing. I so far haven’t subscribed to a tech beeline like DeepO, etc. and have instead been going for techs that I either need or will be useful in a bit.

1080bc – Somewhat of a mistake. I attack the barbarian Hittite city. Unfortunately I finally realized why some of the barb cities I had tried to capture in past games were destroyed instead. This was only a size 1 city. Just like Civ3 you destroy a city if it is only size 1 and has no culture, etc. :doh: To top it all off, it was a city I wanted too, as it was located between some stone and furs. It wouldn’t have been a truly great city, but with the furs and the fact that it was a coastal city it would have become a pretty good commerce city, as well as giving me multiple furs for trading purposes.

Rhothaerill

November 30, 2005, 20:32

Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 2 - Prince Difficulty

After that minor fiasco, things settled down a little for awhile. I’ve been running a pretty light military to this point in the game and continued that for a while, only building a few swordsmen for barb control. I finished research on writing and moved on to mathematics with the intent to get to construction for the bridge building and catapults. I also signed open borders treaties with everyone I knew to start them on the path to liking me. I wasn’t interested yet in a major war and I especially wanted to get Genghis Khan on my side since he was my closest neighbor that I knew about. Further I sent a unit to explore the area to the north. I still hadn’t sent anything to the east and that would come back to (sort of) bite me later on.

1000bc – The start of a new millennium and I ring in the new year by meeting Bismarck of the Germans.

800bc-775bc – In succession Stonehenge was completed in Spain (Barcelona to be exact which came in somewhat handy later) and the Oracle in England. I never even tried to build either one of them, though I had in past games gotten the Oracle most of the time. Not having any stone close to me made it too costly for Stonehenge, and because I had never researched priesthood I didn’t even have a chance to build the Oracle.

I also finished up mathematics and was about to start construction when I realized that no one had researched code of laws yet, and I was only one other tech away from it. If the cards played out correctly I’d found a religion this time, so I switched over to finally start priesthood.

750bc – Contact Hapshetsut. I didn’t know quite where she was at this point though.

675bc – Another barb city had popped up close to me, and again it was a city that I could use as it was close to several wine sources and a cow. It wasn’t quite ideal as it didn’t have the corn or horse in its radius, but if I took it then it was a free city. I waited until it was size 2 and then sent a swordsman up to remove the barbarian occupation force from ‘my city’.

Rhothaerill

November 30, 2005, 20:32

Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 3 - Prince Difficulty

Uzbek was now mine, and research was proceeding apace toward Code of Laws when Genghis Khan called me up. He asked me to declare war on his enemy Hatshepsut. I had a vague idea where she was by the time (on the other side of Genghis) so I would be almost completely safe by declaring war to please him (barring a couple of exploratory warriors which were easily defeated by my small swordsmen force). I had already made several resource trades with Genghis so with the war my rating with my closest neighbor shot up to friendly. My standing with the rest of the AI nations didn’t drop either as it appeared that no one was overly friendly with Hatshepsut. :D

550bc – Found Philadelphia to the NW of Washington. This would be another good city site with corn, cattle and my first clam resource. Surrounded by hills and forests, but situated on the coast for commerce, this city quickly became one of my better jack-of-all-trade cities behind Washington and Boston.

Also you can see another barbarian city in a pleasing location to be able to eventually grab the gold I’d missed out on with New York (still had little culture there) as well as more wine and iron for trading. Later on in the game, through my abundance of wine and later fur resources I’ve been able to trade for many other resources I had been lacking which has made my empire able to grow to high population in many cities. The barb city wasn’t quite ready to take on yet though as it was growing slowly. Alas it wasn’t quite to be as a little later on Genghis sent a couple units and destroyed it while still size 1. My second free city was not to be, but I ended up settling in the same spot later on.

Rhothaerill

November 30, 2005, 20:33

Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 4 - Prince Difficulty

The cards played out the right way for me and I was the first to discover code of laws and Confucianism in 450bc, instead of missing it by a turn like I did with Judaism (sidenote: one of the first games I played was with Saladin and my first religion was Judaism. Ironic? ;)). Instead of being founded in the capital city, Confucianism was discovered in Boston, which prior to this had no culture at all. Suddenly it had some culture and was able to grow enough to envelop the iron resource and some of those forests.

Also, as I converted to Confucianism right off the bat, Isabella immediately called off our open borders agreement and I never got to explore to the direct east of Washington. I also became her “Enemy no. 1” which wasn’t really what I would have wished for as she was my only other close neighbor besides my buddy Genghis. My best friend and my worst enemy were my neighbors.

I haven’t really played much for getting out some missionaries to convert other nations, but Genghis ended up converting anyway through no help of mine, which has of course helped our relationship as well. In one of my early games I discovered the first five religions and spent a lot of resources building missionaries to spread all the faiths, and used great prophets to build the respective shrines. It reaped a lot of gold, but I think the expenditure of resources in building the missionaries outweighed the benefits. Of course I didn’t play that game through to the end so if I had it might have been worth it. But in any case I decided to only consciously try to convert my own cities so I could make use of the organized religion civic.

425bc – Build Atlanta to the SE of Washington, not a great location, but decent with the cow, my only horse so far, and a bunch of coastline for commerce. My nation is shaping up into a true commerce powerhouse, and because of my builder tendencies that has continued to where I am currently in the game as I write this (1600ad).

250bc – I finally decided to change my labor civics to slavery and rush libraries in both Washington and New York. Both needed it as they were both good commerce cities (all those early cottages on flood plains had grown nicely) and because they were both testing the limits of what my happiness and health could sustain. I wrote in Vel’s strategy thread today about some of the benefits of pop-rushing, but I forgot to include this one: I was essentially able to get two free libraries out of this particular round of pop-rushing as I dragged both cities out of their torpor from going above the happiness limit. As both cities had multiple flood plains, they grew fairly quickly again and it gave me a chance to secure a few more happiness-producing resources and buildings before they passed that happiness level again and the new citizens were unproductive.

200bc – Capture the barbarian city of Yue-Chi to the SW. This city grew up in the same spot as the last one I had destroyed before realizing the mechanics of capturing cities. This time I deliberately waited for it to grow and Genghis didn’t wander through my entire land to destroy it like the one to the NW. This city would be another good commerce city with its three fur resources and abundance of coast. The stone and sheep resources were also my first of those type.

Rhothaerill

November 30, 2005, 20:33

Rhoth's DAR 3, Part 5 - Prince Difficulty

After the capture of Yue-Chi I wanted to get my fur resources hooked up for the happiness boost as well as getting some lighthouses to make my coastal cities more productive. After finishing construction I made a short detour to hunting (yep, a first tier tech, which by now only took one turn to research) and sailing. As soon as I discovered sailing I immediately started Boston (my most productive coastal city at the time) on a lighthouse and soon the Great Lighthouse. Yep I’ve read the threads about the benefits of trade routes. ;)

After sailing I move on to alphabet, which also gave me some of the early techs I was missing like archery, meditation and the remainder of monotheism when I did some tech trading. From alphabet I moved on to monarchy to be able to hook up my abundance of wines for happiness and later trading.

Not much happened for quite a few years other than research and finishing buildings such as libraries and lighthouses to improve my research and productivity.

300ad – Build Chicago on the spot where the barb city of Sarmatia was destroyed by Genghis Khan. Unfortunately it has no real food resources so won’t grow overly quickly, but it will be an excellent commerce city with the gold, wines, and coast.

450ad – Complete the Great Lighthouse in Boston. Yay. More trade routes and more gold, so I can ramp up my research even more. With 7 cities all built out for research and a good deal of commerce in all cities I was able to run 80-90% research without losing much gold (and able to recoup some of what was lost during the last turn or two of research by shifting the slider down).

My war with Hatshepsut ended immediately after Genghis Khan declared peace with her. Other than two roaming warriors early on she never once attacked me, and I’ve stayed peaceful with my neighbors so the need for a large standing military hadn’t arrived yet.

540ad – I was essentially blocked off from further peaceful expansion so the last personally founded city I built was Seattle to the south of Boston. This would never be a production city as it was almost all tundra, but it has a large amount of coastal tiles as well as fish and more fur resources so it’s another great commerce city in my growing collection of them. I don’t know if Nathan quite intended it to be that way (since we’re studying the financial trait), but every personally founded city of mine, as well as the two barb cities I captured are good commerce cities; Uzbek (former barb city) being the worst of the lot, but even it has three wine resources.

Also, this was the particular city I was talking about in my response to Arrian about pop-rushing in Vel’s strategy thread. With only the city tile and one tundra forest available for production, Seattle became my poster child for rushing a lighthouse, library etc. It only has improvements to make the commerce better, but that is all it needs.

580ad – And finally to end my long-winded DAR3, I finally discover civil service to enter the medieval age. As I mentioned before I never beelined to it, but was still the first in the game to discover the tech, etc. I haven’t truly read up on the concrete benefits of a beeline to civil service so possibly I could have done everything better up to this point with said beeline. But that’s the beauty of Civ4 as there are so many good strategies for tech research. You’re not limited to one “best” strategy like in Civ3 and I like that.

I unfortunately forgot to take a screenshot at this time and my next save was several turns from now, so you’ll have to wait until DAR 4 to see the state of my empire.

vulture

December 1, 2005, 07:37

Vulture DAR 3 - Prince difficulty

Not very good notes for this one, but then, not a great deal happened.

My plan from the previous DAR was to get to Code of Laws as quickly as possible to found a religion. This plan went pear-shaped when Confucianism was founded 2 turns before I got to CoL. Continuing my quest to grab a religion, I then made a beeline for Theology to get Christianity.

City wise, I was mostly concerned with building up enough archers to man my culture wall, and build the culture to expand my cities to seal of the peninsula. Plan completed. I've now started on filling in the rest of the peninsula gradulaly, with my first priority being health and luxury bonuses at the moment. I'm doing pretty well in GNP, but am way down the list for manufacturing. I do have the most land area though.

Bismark called up a few times to demand techs. He is on the far side of the continent, so I told him to go away. I also refused a demand from the Arabs to stop trading with Egypt. While I was about 5 turns from Theology, dear old Isabella asked me to convert to Buddhism. This was tricky - by refusing all open borders offers and turning down a few extortion attempts, I've not been making and friends. Isabella does have a reputation for being very hostile to neighbors of differing religions, so by refusing her I'd be lining myself up for wars with her and Bismark in the not too distant future. Conversely, by converting, she becomes a good ally, and is between Germany and America, so hopefully can be persuaded to be a nice buffer zone for me. The downside is that when I do get my own religion sorted, it won't be much use to me. I figure I can live with this - I'll have time to spread christianity around and then convert when I don't need Spain as a buffer so much. So, Buddhism it is then.

Not long after that, I reach Theology, Christianity and the medieval period, in 150 AD.

My main efforts now will be focussed on expanding as fast as economically possible. I want to fill up my peninsula, and then I can get some open borders agreements to spread christianity and improve trade. Trying to nab the whole territory has proven a strange experience - particularly combined with my beelines for expensive techs. It's left me behind in many areas due to lack of develoment, but has hopefully given the potential to make a grand leap forward through the medieval period.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=10515_Medieval.JPG>

Cort Haus

December 1, 2005, 14:08

Originally posted by nbarclay

In regard to my relations with the AIs, the one thing I truly hate about Civ IV is how demanding the AIs are. It’s just plain insane that I spend huge amounts of gold researching state-of-the-art technologies, and then AIs get irritated with me if I’m not willing to hand over the fruits of my enormous investment for free. It’s also highly irritating to be bombarded with demands from AIs to cancel deals with other AIs. I don’t expect to be able to be everyone’s best friend at once, but neither do I like being penalized for trying to remain neutral in regard to the AIs’ mutual dislikes of each other – especially when the AIs aren’t actually at war with each other.

Being asked to hand over an expensive, shiny new tech can be very annoying, but I remember how beelining to Republic in Civ 3 on Emperor would invariably meet with demands to hand it over, followed by instant trouble if my military wasn't able to back up my refusal. Also, it seems that one of the hard facts about Civ 4 is that if you try to be friends with everyone, you can end up being friends with no-one. It seems we have to pick a side and stick with it.

Apparantly you can use the f4 advisor from within a pop-up AI demand, so at least the diplomatic map can be surveyed before comitting to some unpopularity with someone. We can't avoid enemies, the best we can do is choose them. You converted to your religion early, ISTR Nathan, perhaps that didn't help.

Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.

Nobody here built 3 archers per city during DAR1-2, because we all had bolder, loftier goals - beelines, wonders, staking out and sealing off a large territory. The AI, OTOH was probably building its cautious 3 archers per city, and only sending double-escorted settlers. While others have flashy Acadamies and more productive civics to power research, the AI has 15 archers - so maybe it is just trying to use them to get tech.

None of us so far has gone for a military-based start, and we've all had pressure from the AI. With this much land around to settle, and the high-food start, perhaps this is unsurprising, but would a Theseus or an UnOrthOdOx have gone for a more unit-heavy start and maybe allied with the Mongols? Maybe we'll find out sometime ...

Rhothaerill

December 1, 2005, 15:12

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Being asked to hand over an expensive, shiny new tech can be very annoying, but I remember how beelining to Republic in Civ 3 on Emperor would invariably meet with demands to hand it over, followed by instant trouble if my military wasn't able to back up my refusal. Also, it seems that one of the hard facts about Civ 4 is that if you try to be friends with everyone, you can end up being friends with no-one. It seems we have to pick a side and stick with it.

That was pretty much what I ended up doing in my game as well. Isabella was annoyed with me the minute I switched to a Confucianism, while I entered a war with Hatshepsut to get in the good graces of Genghis Khan. It's funny the way it worked out but I chose to ally with Genghis and Bismarck, and to a lesser extent Saladin, while my relations with the three females stagnated. Allying with Genghis was calculated to keep him from attacking me early, while allying with Bismarck just kind of happened as we had items and tech to trade with each other. Later on in the game those two allies proved helpful as I pulled them into a war when Isabella tried to attack me.

Apparantly you can use the f4 advisor from within a pop-up AI demand, so at least the diplomatic map can be surveyed before comitting to some unpopularity with someone. We can't avoid enemies, the best we can do is choose them. You converted to your religion early, ISTR Nathan, perhaps that didn't help.

That's good to know. I hadn't tried that yet, but it's definitely helpful to survey the prior diplomacy.

Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.

Nobody here built 3 archers per city during DAR1-2, because we all had bolder, loftier goals - beelines, wonders, staking out and sealing off a large territory. The AI, OTOH was probably building its cautious 3 archers per city, and only sending double-escorted settlers. While others have flashy Acadamies and more productive civics to power research, the AI has 15 archers - so maybe it is just trying to use them to get tech.

None of us so far has gone for a military-based start, and we've all had pressure from the AI. With this much land around to settle, and the high-food start, perhaps this is unsurprising, but would a Theseus or an UnOrthOdOx have gone for a more unit-heavy start and maybe allied with the Mongols? Maybe we'll find out sometime ...

Let's get them playing this game so we can find out. :D

Fosse

December 1, 2005, 17:04

125

I took Bactrain easily. Another barb city east of the first, after Saladin razed the first. I send units to fight. It looks like Saladin will raze this one again though, as I only have chariots nearby and I don't really want to fight city archers with them. Swords on the way, but we'll see. I just realized that I never switched civics when I built the pyramids. I do this a LOT! Now, I wasn't running any specialists, so it wasn't that bad. But washington has had one unhappy citizen for a long time now. That sucks. I switch now.

50 AD
I get Metal Casting. New York, Washington, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia all start building FOrges. Code of Laws is next. I'm eyeing switching to Buddhism soon... it's the only religion I have (New York). But I dont yet have Monotheism or PHilosophy, Representation is keeping me happy.. so the only plus would be relations with Mongolia and Spain... but it'd also hurt me with everybody else. If I ever war for territory it'd be with Spain anyway... so I don't know how much of a concern it is. I'm building up military in cities near Isabella. Both she and Genghis have made demands to stop trading with Egypt and Arabia - which I won't do.

I'm in a good spot right now, with all of my land claimed according to the drawing I did on the map (that never happens), and settlers ready to fill in the west coast and push north toward Mongolia. New YOrk has built nothing but units for a long time now, and once its forge is done will either go back to units or build a Monastary to start spreading Budhism.. then go back to units. I am gearing up for war, though I don't think I'll need it. I want to get to the ocean after getting COL, to see who else is out there and geta feel for the land.

250 AD

Well... MOngolia declared war. I move units up towards those cities. I don't really expect to grab land... but I can pillage and promote some of my units. Maybe I'll makea grab for the city near Spain's little culture island... If I get a couple of Artists I might be able to make it flip.

I detour to Monotheism since nobody will trade it to me, and switch to Caste ssytem and Organized Religion. Next I'll switch to Budhism when I find a time. Once forges are in place I can outbuild Khan. I notice nobody has the Great Lighthouse yet... I've never had a city to sapre for a wonder... but maybe I can still snag it with stone and forges. That'd be nice.

375 AD
A couple of City Raider II (both later promoted to CR III) swords and some chariots make quick work of the two Mongol cities near me. Khan must regret this war... his only attack force was instantly dealt with, and now he's two cities down. I take a moment to map out what I want to do with the rest of my territory... and it's time to put the game down for a while.

A really rough and rocky start has set me up for a nice middle game. I still don't know what's out there in the world. But when Paper and the age of sail arrive (next!) I'll finally get a look at the wider world. Barbarians have so far been my chief plague, but their days are numbered (they snuck another city in, destined for razing as soon as I'm done with Mongolia).

SESSION II

475 BC
Peace with Mongolia. A few turns he wouldn't talk to me. He used his keshiks to snag a couple of workers.... stupid things. I wasn't thinking clearly about the all terrain movement. Two workers down... what a loss.

The two Mongolian cities I took start work on libraries. The southern one is in for a tough culture battle with Barcelona unless and until I can generate a great artist, and the one in the north has old Mongol culture to deal with.

Finish construction, so my next war will have cats. I start Compass. Forges still aren't online, so I'm just waiting to get that geared up. I got to build an Acadamey in Washington, which will be a big help.

760 AD
I enter the Medeival era with Machinery.

DeepO

December 1, 2005, 19:05

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Another thing, I think you mentioned these annoying demands right after saying how your military was a bit thin after expansion. I think nearly everyone was bit unprotected after expanding on this map, with varying outcomes - but it seems to me that those bullying AI demands come thicker and faster with a light military than a heavy one.
if the AI demands something (and thus doesn't ask a favour as your relations are already excellent), you will most of the time be weaker then him. If you are stronger, you can easily call his bluff. If you are weaker, it becomes a lot more trickier.

In this game I saw Isa attacking me right after asking for pottery. I knew what the result was going to be: I was on unfriendly terms, and because of my actions (pressing her borders back) I was leading the game to war. If I would have approved the trade, i could have bought myself a couple of years of peace.

Not all AIs will give such easy way out: some will simply attack you without giving you the option to pay tribute and live another day. These are the sneakier civs... Isa is no fun at all, but im my experience is not so sneaky. Louis OTOH...

Also, I've seen this a couple of times, and I'm starting to believe it is something coded, and not emergent behaviour. Right before going into a strong miliatary phase, the AI are much more likely to attack you. I nearly always get attacked while researching construction when I've got ivory. Same for gunpowder. Same for Cavs. as these are periods where my military is a bit weaker as well (as you try to get a granary in before building musketmen, for instance) you might think it's simply the 'we've got a weak neighbour so let's attack' rule playing. However, I've been in worse situation without trouble. But put me near gunpowder or cavs, and all hell breaks lose.

BTW: giving in to friendly requests can get you very far. I haven't seen it in the latest builds yet because of a different playstyle, but it wouldn't be the first time that after I give a tech because a friendly AI asks for it, I got contacted a couple of turns later, and get a free tech gift from that AI. Also, trading becomes a lot easier: you give a tech when they ask. You ask for something they would not be willing to trade to you (e.g. as the tech which you've got is exactly the same beaker cost as what you want, and you have no gold or other tech to make the deal work). It's a valid approach... not something to build your whole game on, but certainly a diplo strategy which has it's uses.

DeepO

Cort Haus

December 1, 2005, 21:03

Originally posted by DeepO

BTW: giving in to friendly requests can get you very far. I haven't seen it in the latest builds yet because of a different playstyle, but it wouldn't be the first time that after I give a tech because a friendly AI asks for it, I got contacted a couple of turns later, and get a free tech gift from that AI.
DeepO

Gifts from the AI? Wow. I have been able to ask and get things in return after agreeing to a friendly demand, and in one game I noticed that by agreeing to the first demand (and not being too weak) there were no further demands from the same Civ for a long time, if ever.

Arrian

December 2, 2005, 08:50

I remember a game not too long ago (can't remember if it was Noble or Prince, though), where my closest friend gave me a tech as a gift. I was trying to click on "what do you want for this" but I missed and hit "could you spare this for a friend?" And lo & behold, they coughed it up! It wasn't necessarily a shiny new tech, but still!

-Arrian

DeepO

December 2, 2005, 12:30

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Gifts from the AI? Wow. I have been able to ask and get things in return after agreeing to a friendly demand, and in one game I noticed that by agreeing to the first demand (and not being too weak) there were no further demands from the same Civ for a long time, if ever.
I've seen that too, but I wasn't sure whether this was because he was waiting for me to ask for something, or because I was simply growing less friendly with him.

DeepO

DeepO

December 2, 2005, 12:32

Originally posted by Arrian
I remember a game not too long ago (can't remember if it was Noble or Prince, though), where my closest friend gave me a tech as a gift. I was trying to click on "what do you want for this" but I missed and hit "could you spare this for a friend?" And lo & behold, they coughed it up! It wasn't necessarily a shiny new tech, but still!

-Arrian

Arrian, I'm not talking about these 'gifts'. If you ask something from a friendly, you've got a good chance of succeeding, especially if you're a bit below him in score/strength/whatever.

I was talking about the AI giving techs spontaneously. I don't ask, they simply give.

But like I said, I didn't see it lately. I don't know if it has been tweaked, or simply because I never got in that kind of game anymore. As a tester, you're supposed to test different playstyles... the superfriendly route is something I haven't done in a while.

DeepO

DeepO

December 2, 2005, 12:36

BTW, extortion is a very cool gimmick as well. Getting techs by demanding them is not that easy, but gold or maps many AI will give. You will receive a 'you made a arrogant demand' -1 modifier to relations, whether he gave in to the extortion or not. That doesn't happen when simply asking to 'spare this for a good friend'.

DeepO

Arrian

December 2, 2005, 12:41

Ah, ok, sorry I misunderstood. Spontaneous gifts from the AI? Wow.

I haven't had a lot of success demanding stuff. Then again, the AI typically doesn't have a whole heckuva lot of stuff I want other than tech (piles of gold, for instance), and tech is - as you say - hard to get via demands.

-Arrian

DeepO

December 2, 2005, 12:53

Originally posted by Arrian
I haven't had a lot of success demanding stuff. Then again, the AI typically doesn't have a whole heckuva lot of stuff I want other than tech (piles of gold, for instance), and tech is - as you say - hard to get via demands.

Any gold is good, when you know you're going to war anyway. And you can nearly always get e.g. 100 gold. That's most of the times enough to upgrade one more unit.

It's a bit exploitative, but you can demand gold the turn you declare war. I've done so in this game with Isa (but that is DAR #5, which I'll probably write today). I don't see a disadvantage for the moment: Sure, the attitude towards you will go down, but who cares when you are set on destroying them anyway.

Reminds me I still have to mention that to Firaxis ;)

DeepO

Arrian

December 2, 2005, 13:01

Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian

DeepO

December 2, 2005, 13:08

Originally posted by Arrian
Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian
I read this too late... good thing we had similar ideas then :D

Already reported.

DeepO

kptb

December 6, 2005, 10:58

Noble difficulty

Ancient I (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4178891#post4178891)
Ancient II (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4178932#post4178932)
Classical (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4178965#post4178965)
Midieval (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4179052#post4179052)
Renaissance (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4179052#post4179052)

We entered the classical era in 850. 825 BC sees start of masonry. We spread our religion, Confucianism, to Washington in 800 BC. Masonry comes online in 775 and iron working is decided upon as our next big step toward a prosperous empire. The year 750 BC is eventful, New York builds an archer and begins on a library, it adopts Confucianism and the great city of Akron is founded north of Boston. It immediately is ordered to bolster it defenses with another archer.
In the year 650 BC Washington beasts Delphi and constructs the oracle. The oracle predicts a bright future for our empire and reveals the secret of civil service to us, thus catapulting us into the medieval era.
The glorious American Empire is ranked first in area, second in GNP, third in food, forth in population and sixth in goods and soldiers. We anticipate iron working in 2 turns, an archer in Washington in four, a settler in Boston in five, a library in NY in eighteen and an archer in Akron in twenty-one.

Cort Haus

December 6, 2005, 11:36

Originally posted by Arrian
Either a 5-turn delay before you can declare or possibly (if possible w/o screwing other things up) program the AI to *never* give into another demand if you demand + attack that civ within X turns (5? 10?).

-Arrian

I handed over something like Fibre Optics to Napoleon last night, and he attacked next turn anyway. So, the AI uses that exploit too.

Blake

December 11, 2005, 06:49

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/31alanta.jpg
My first significant action of the Classical Era was founding Alanta, on a river, next to the gold, with a couple of workers ready to hook that gold right up.
After Mathematics I researched Masonary, as to get started on the Hanging Gardens, then Sailing to link up the furs city which I'll capture at some point.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/32burncity.jpg
Illinois feels the burn! Mainly because it was size 1.
Horribly, I lost 2 Horse Archers taking it, both with 2 Combat Upgrades. It isn't right losing as many units to a lousy size 1 barb city as took the mighty Mongolian Capital, but I was prepared with 4 Horse Archers anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/33hindubuddy.jpg
Speaking of Mongolians, their capital has a name I can't remember, so I renamed it. Quite insensitive to their culture, very "American" of me, I feel.
Anyway, Mongol Central is feeling the cultural squeeze, so I'm going to (try and) build the Hanging Gardens there, it's not that I want them, they're just the only wonder I can build.

Hinduism spread to my lands, and in a stroke of luck it spread to Mongol Central, the very city which needed an extra happy to offset the conquered peoples woes.

So Isabella, I was wondering if you.. i mean if I could... uh... Isabella! CAN I BE YOUR HINDU BUDDY?!!!
I can? Yay!
Guess she isn't picky...

Anyway I want to befriend Isabella as she will help protect my very exposed eastern borders, she is also not a credible threat, unlike the Arabs and Eygptions to the North, both of who will need to be put down sooner rather than later. As an added bonus Isabella has a different religion to everyone else, so with luck I'll be her only friend, so she wont have open borders with my, I mean, our enemies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/34scientisttime.jpg
I get my first Great Scientist, and make an Acadamy, Construction goes from 12 turns to 9 turns. Nice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/35MongolHQ.jpg
I locate the Mongol HQ when it's borders expand, Saladin and Hatty had just declared war, so I decided to declare war on Genghis and go take a looksee, I'll bring in 4 horses and take it, it's in a fine spot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/36chicago.jpg
Chicago is founded, and a force of horses is massing to take Pheygian.

The same turn, Isabella reminds me that she's an evil witch by changing to Juadism. I thought we were friends!
I'll be staying Hindu for now, atleast while building the gardens.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/37Phrygian.jpg
Phrygian joins the winning team! In a startling display of competence, no horses were lost.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/38beshbalik.jpg
Beshbalik is mine! Yay for Ivory! I gotta stop taking so many screenshots...

Soon after, Isabella calls and demands I change religion to Juadism. I fold, For the brownie points!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/39Turfan.jpg
And the horde of skilled horse riders sweep across the lands from the Mongolian Heartlands, conquering and razing all in their path!
The Mongols are no more. I razed one city and kept their final one, it has Spice and Bananas.

The Hanging Gardens have been completed in Mongol Central. Also the Marble tile has flipped over to me.

The Mongols destroyed and the barbarians supressed, my economy humming along at ... 30% science. With Code of Laws researched I start building those cheap courthouses everywhere, while building Catapults to continue the war, except in Forward City which is getting a nice new Heroic Epic, and the Capital is getting the Great Library. My research is actually pretty good because I have 4 Scientists, and 30% of a big territory is still a significant amount of research.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/310Baghdad.jpg
My forces loiter outside Baghad, once the 2 workers have finished their terraforming (free improvement for me!) my horses will dash in and capture them, the other stack contains catapults. Baghdad will fall nearly instantly, then I'll move on to the rest of the Arab empire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/311transition.jpg
I trade Theology from Isabella(Theocracy! yay!), entering the Medieval era. I've been spreading Juadism from a Monastary at Forward City (it can crank out a monk every 2-3 turns), so I'll switch to Theo and open a can off whoopass on the Arabs. Also I'll be building the Forbidden Palace in Mongol Central, to lower my expensese a bit.

State of the Empire:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ltgrater/312stateofthenation.jpg

5 Happy Resources, 1 unconnected, 1 in Arab-soon-to-be-mine territory.
4 Healthy Resources, 2 unconnected.
None being traded, I'll probably make for-gold deals.
One of the biggest advantages of unbridled conquest is acquiring vast quantities of resources, this helps to allow you to focus on important spending and construction rather than happy/health stuff, helping to make a large empire profitable.

joncnunn

December 13, 2005, 21:54

Blake, I highly recomend allowing barb cities to grow to size 2 before attacking them.

That way you get the city for free instead of having to spend a combined 100 shields & food in one city building the settler to replace the town. Settlers are much more expensive in Civ IV than they are in prior versions of Civ.

Blake

December 13, 2005, 22:55

Why would I want to replace that town with another so near? I just wanted to get rid of it so I could move all my real units onto more important things. Not as if a plains city far from water has much growth potential, as a coastal city it'd do better one tile to the west.

Actually I did end up taking it when it rebuilt, I was suprised that it did rebuild right next to Atlanta, I wouldn't have thought it possible for a barb city to found with it's radius partialy in revealed territory, but those barbs continue to suprise me with their blatant disregard for the probable/possible.

I kept it the second time, because Iron had popped in it's radius. And had I known it was going to refound and/or about the iron, I would have let it grow to size 2 and kept it the first time. As it is, I now know more about about the founding habits of barb cities, so in retrospect did the right thing in razing it.

Artuero

December 17, 2005, 07:39

Artuero DAR 3 – Classical Era (875 B.C. to 175 A.D.)

We began the classical era in 875 B.C. and immediately completed libraries in New York and Madrid. Madrid also hooked up stone which will allow us to begin to work on the pyramids efficiently. I also signed up open borders with Hatshepsut and Khan.

725 BC – Oracle built in a far-away land. So much for trying that gambit; glad I did not waste time trying.

625 BC – Adopted slavery.

525 BC – 6th Washington Warriors took Angle from the Barbarians.

450 BC – Moses born in Madrid. He immediately establishes the Mahabodhi.

In 350, Pliny wrote about the Most Advanced Civilizations. I am now in 3rd place, behind Khan and Saladin. My tech lead has faltered as I have not kept up enough commerce.

350 BC We research code of laws and found Confucianism in Angle. We begin researching theology.

150 BC Khan declares war on me! He sends a war elephant who pillages a bit. I sacrifice my 6th Warriors who soften him up enough for the 8th Archers to eliminate him, stopping the pillaging. Khan also captured one of my workers.

50 BC England (who I haven’t met yet) builds the pyramids. All that work for naught. However, I do receive over 300 coin for my spoiled efforts.

1 AD Egypt builds the Parthenon. It appears that I will not be getting many early wonders this time around.

175 AD I enter the medieval era by researching Theology and founding Christianity in Boston. Another fairly short era.

Ghengis Khan is on the attack again and has me pretty worried since my defenses, though not as slim as before, do not stack up well against his forces. I have neglected military techs and may pay for it. I will have to try to make peace with him.

I like where my techs are going; currently looking to found taoism and then go on to music to try to get the free great artist.

Expansion could be better. I have created a real sphere of influence where I am, but if I am going to go for a cultural victory I need to establish at least a few more cities to get to size 9.

Priorities for the Medieval Era would be finally bringing my military up to par, getting some wonders, and expanding the empire to cover at least nine cities.

rrs_racer

December 28, 2005, 11:33

Monarch difficulty: DAR3, the Classical Age (475BC-50AD)

Not terribly organized notes for this one I’m afraid – just pen and paper used for the original note-gathering, as my ancient computer doesn’t much like me Alt-Tabbing out any more.

425BC – Priesthood discovered. I’m going to try and get some culture going, for resource benefits, as there are several resources juts out of the reach of our cities at the moment. But we don’t have religion yet. This is the first game where I’ve really ignored religion, and we are seriously missing it.
350BC – We are the second largest civilization. Things are going very well, considering. Might be over-expanding though, as I’m having to run 50/50 tech to break even. There’s just one more city to come, then I’ll focus on infrastructure.
225BC – Iron working discovered, and two sources of Iron nearby. Excellent.

One connected within four turns, and cities successfully defended against barbs. With the iron sorted, I can now build axemen, and a handful of them should be enough to overrun the two barb cities that lie south-west and north-east respectively.

Seattle founded near Genghis, to take advantage of some nice grassland and resources up there. That should be a nicely productive city before too long – it might even be used as a base of operations should we find ourselves in a position to hurt Genghis.

Oh, and Chicago founded too, to the north-west of New York.

150BC – A Great Scientist is born in Washington, and an Academy is constructed. I think I’m behind in tech right now, but I have a couple of cottages being developed (one is a village, and two are hamlets) on the flood plains nearby, so the tech lag should be shortlived. I’m not sure whether to abandon Great People for now (seeing as I don’t have any wonders yet – that could be a mistake) and simply focus on production. Mines are finally being erected around the capital, and I should have 12/13 production should I want it fairly soon, with the iron.

San Francisco has also been founded in the desert just to the east of the capital – that should give me some stone before too long. Meanwhile, Libraries are going up everywhere.

50AD – Christianity founded in Seattle :D thus ends the Classical Age. Things are finally starting to work – Christianity’s going to need to spread like wildfire if I’m really going to sort culture out in this one, as we don’t have any right now. It spreads immediately to Boston, and I’ve sent the missionary off to New York – where hopefully they can pump missionaries out and we can switch to Organized Religion at some point.

Stuff that is working:
- The expansion has meant we’re quite a big civ right now, with plenty of commerce; sadly, we have plenty of maintenance as a result.
- Production’s coming along OK, and we’ll have some productive cities fairly soon with which to churn out military. Barracks are only just starting to go up in cities now, as I’d fairly ignored military. Up until recently, the only units I could build anywhere were Warriors – that’s how dire the situation was.
- The workers are really starting to make a difference to our productivity, and waiting for so long to produce our first ones kind of worked.

Stuff that isn’t working:
- Religion. Like, we didn’t have any until last turn. Confucianism spread somewhere at about the same time as Christianity was founded by us – up until then, we were really struggling.
- Because of this, we don’t have much in the way of culture, and I’m sure we’re beginning to lag behind in terms of territory. Having cities with no culture, and hence the small radius, really hurts you in terms of productivity and resources.
- Should have got stone sooner. We still don’t have it connected, as the barbs have the territory around it.
- I think we got some bad luck with barb cities – three around where I was planning to build cities.
- Oh, and we don't have many other techs. I'll head towards Alphabet now though, I'm bound to be able to trade something.

dacole

December 30, 2005, 16:18

Ok this is going to be long sorry! Learned a lot so want to make sure it gets in.

General Washington paced in his office though for several years thing had looked like they were going well recently they had taken a turn for the worse. Two graneries had been built in NY and Boston later than he would have liked but they were built. Atlanta to the south had fended off a barbarian attack so the horses were safe, though the fact that somehow the barbarians had learned to use arrows was disturbing. Reports came in about the discovery of Hinduism in 425 almost making him laugh how had these messangers missed the earlier ones? Hinduism had been founded hundreds of years ago! The germans had completed a building they called the Parthenon but thankfully the egyptions had found and destroyed the barbarian city. Amazingly though a few turns after they destroyed it and right after they left the area the mongels founded a city in the ruins before an American setteler had any chance of reaching the spot. In 150 B.C. Saldin canceled the OP agreement only to reopen it several years later, Boston built a Barraks and Atlanta built an Obleisk. Both the Mongels and the Eqyptians converted to Judaism and in delight over being show the way the Eqyptians even gave the secrets of Meditation as a Gift! No one else being interested in a fair tech trade the scientists went back to work. Then things began to fall apart, perperations for war with the spanish were going well, but then in 450 AD the Mongels who had been stedfast allies declared War. And immediatly destroyed the only copper mine and gem mine in the empiere. Thankfully some already built spearmen were able to quickly dispatch the strange mongel horse archers and another copper mine was restablished in the empire. Construction and Iornworking were quickly researched and War elephants, swordsmen and catapults quickly brought to bear against the Mongel hordes. Though at a great cost in life and loss of non millitary production. Then when the Mongels only had two cities left things suddenly became a salemate. Somehow the Mongels had developed a strange archer that had to rest his incredibly large bow on the ground but could eaisly kill a swordsmen through his iron armor or an elephant in one or two shots! Who had given this technology to the Mongels? They would soon feel the wrath of the Americans!!

----learned
Whoo where to start? Before this I had only played duel size games on continental maps in an effort to ease my way into the game. As such the Barbarians had never founded cities. Does anyone know what determines wether they do or not? One thing I learned is if they do always destory them with overwhelming force ASAP or they will continuly bring out more and more advanced units to harrasses you. As well never move a setteler or settle a city without first scouting the area (right before the setteler moves in ) and with some protection! Loosing a city right after it is founded to barbarians is a BIG blow. Second it doesnt seem to get much to get leaders who haven't developed their own religon to convert to yours. The eqyptaions converted after Judaism naturally spread to their cities and the Mongels after I sent one missionary. The AI also seems to be much better this time around. I've never had as much problem before staying up in the tech race on such a low level. Though if I had built a worker in boston and developed the Gems to the West rather than building the obelisk right away this might not have been as much as a problem. Also since I had explored far with my scouts I had two sources of copper in my empire but I had only developed one of them, this proved to be a mistake because the AI (and even the barbarians) WILL pillage your improvments. They also seem to trade techs among themselves to a much greater extent then I am used to. Again on my duel maps with one AI I was always leap years ahead in tech, here though I got to alphabet first and didn't trade it away it wasn't long until the AI caught up to me and then began to pull ahead. I have yet to figure out how the Mongols got fudalism however especially when I had them down to only two cities... Also even in a conquest strategy using specialists and building a couple of wonders is CRITICAL simply because of Great People. As you may have noticed it is now 1180AD and I haven't had a single one!! This might have solved most of my problems right here. Also I may not sign open border treaties with every civ so redily in the future, not doing so would have prevented the mongels from taking the prime city site away from me..

Other things that happened. After researching Iron working and construction I researched Drama to be able to change my culture rate since I thought happiness might become a problem due to war weariness. It has not and the way has been going on for over 400 years now. Does anyone know if this has anything to do with the fact that I didn't declare the war? Also after switiching to the pryamids I changed to US to speed up production wether this was the right choice or wether I should have used the money to go back to 100 percent research time will tell.

joncnunn

December 30, 2005, 20:58

Dacole, WW seems to be much more an issue in Civ IV than Civ III. I evenually hit 4 extra unhappy citizens throughout my empire the turn I ended the war by capturing the last Mongolian city.

Athough in my game, I was the one who actually declared war, having been invited by the Arabs to do so.

I implemented the cultural tax as soon as the 2nd extra unhappy citizen appeared. I actually left the tax on post-war to help the culture in the conquered lands.

Drama is also a very good tech for a human to reserach, the AI cost for it is about 1.5X it's cost. And it does allow a national wonder of no unhappiness in the chosen city.

Shaka II

December 30, 2005, 22:07

DAR 1 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4217777&t=8416#post4217777)
DAR 2 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144194&pagenumber=2)
DAR 3 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144196&pagenumber=3)
DAR 4 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144238&pagenumber=2)
DAR 5 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144263&pagenumber=2)
DAR 6 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144293)
DAR 7 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144366)

100BC I have just captured Nanjing and my axemen are preparing for a trek to the North into unexplored jungle. I have just researched Monarchy and am in anarchy as I switch governments. I’m researching construction to allow catapults and war elephants. Since I have the ivory, I have decided to forgo animal husbandry and horseback riding for now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/Bogwalker/Shaka_II_Romans_100BCa.jpg

300AD I have now pushed North to capture Shanghai and the Chinese capital of Beijing. My research of monarchy has allowed me to trade for earlier techs, except for meditation, horseback riding, calendar, currency, iron working, and metal casting. In 3 turns, code of laws will be mine, at which point, I plan to trade for more techs. Gold from sacking the last few cities has allowed me to keep research at or close to 100%.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/Bogwalker/Shaka_II_Romans_300ADa.jpg

330AD Code of Laws is mine along with Confucianism. I traded code of laws for iron working and calendar, while still maintaining my monopoly on alphabet.

xxFlukexx

January 2, 2006, 04:42

DAR Record, links work:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4219771#post4219771
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4219774#post4219774
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4219779#post4219779
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4219786#post4219786
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4221092#post4221092
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4221125#post4221125
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4221160#post4221160

900 B.C. New York is done with Barracks, starts on a Library, it will grow to size 4 and then rush the library.

850 B.C. 4 Barbarian warriors sprout up, one dies to my uber barb fortified in a forest, I may lose an improvement or two

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=68058_850BC.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=68058_850BC.JPG)

750 B.C. Barbs plunder two mines, but then all die. Both of my warriors get combat I. Genghis said hi, yay another aggressive civ, let's kill! New York pop rushes a library. Treasury is empty, but we are running science at 90% with +1 gpt.

675 B.C. Alphabet is completed. Ok, now we have to go take a look at the Diplo situation, what's up with Hatty, she only has open borders with me, everyone else has open borders with everyone else, hmms. Oh well we still do some trading with everyone:
Writing to Hatty for Masonry
Pottery to Izzy for Hunting
Man, Saladin won't trade Sailing for Writing, what a dork.
Researching Polytheism

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=68058_675BC.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=68058_675BC.JPG)

600 B.C. Oops, boston hits 3 pop and doesn't have any troops so it has one unhappy, it starts to make an axe man(5turns) Oh yeah, New York has two specialists at size 3 so it is starving, but I am watching it, it won't lose any pop, it should still beat out Washington and gives us a Great Scientist

575 B.C. Polytheism done.
Poly to Genghis for Meditation
Poly to Bismarck for Archery
Poly to Saladin for Priesthood
Starting Monarchy(14 turns)

550 B.C. Genghis wants me to cancel deals with Hatty, okie dokie, doesn't look so good for Hatty she's friends with Bismarck, but that's it.

275 B.C. Monarchy done. Bismarck got the Pyramids in 475 B.C. (very slow) and is going Representation. Izzy demands Alphabet and I laugh at her. Genghis converts to buddy, me next please Izzy. I switch to Hereditary Rule.
Meditation and Priesthood to Bismarck for Sailing
Monarchy to Genghis for Mathematics
Start on Code of Laws

200 B.C. Great Scientist is done in New York, Washington at 96/200 for a Great Prophet and back to growing again. I'm at -1 gpt with 90% science, time to make a few more settlers. Barb city found, first barb axeman killed my uber warrior (he had Woodsman II and combat I, poor guy) Oh yeah, great scientist will make an academy in Washington next turn.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=68058_200BC.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=68058_200BC.JPG)

75 B.C. Genghis makes a city close to my cap, but then barbs come out and kill it. Rofl, you suck Genghis.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=68058_75BC.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=68058_75BC.JPG)

75 A.D. Settler #4 is off, he has to wait a bit for his axeman escort. Heís wants to go to the west to the land of many resources (iron, gold, and wine) Lots of hills over there but no way to get irrigation, so instead weëll move to where Genghis put up his failed city. Code of Laws is done.
Monarchy and Code of Laws to Bismarck for Monotheism and Calendar. All trades are bad trades on Emperor+. Genghis has currency, but wonít trade it yet.
Starting on Literature
Unit Cost at 4 gpt, starting to slow down research, no more troops for awhile

175 A.D. Buddy finally spreads to our lands, yay, switch to Buddy immediately.

275 A.D. Literature done. Genghis wants corn for my dye, fine with me. Genghis attacked Saladin, I donít think Saladin has much of a chance. Starting Currency(13 turns) and the Great Library at Washington(30 turns) Time to pop and chop at Washington and see if we can get the Great Library in time.

520 A.D. CoL to Saladin for Horseback Riding. New York has been making a worker and a settler while Boston has been pumping out Buddy missionaries and spreading them around. Hatty made peace with Saladin, never knew they were at war, cool. Taoism founded in like 475 B.C. who cares.

600 A.D. Great Library is completed. Yay. I see Genghis has longbowmen, hmm this worries me. But oh well with the GL and my citizens back to working cottage tiles I'll catch up.

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=68058_600AD.JPG> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=68058_600AD.JPG)

640 A.D. Currency is done, starting on Civil Service, Genghis sends some troops at the barbarian city south of me, so I capture it right before he is, sigh bye bye exp farm. I get about 50 gold. I'm am 6 cities now, at 70% science with -2 gpt and 59 gold in the bank, once that new city ends its resistance it will be back to 60% science, gotta get another commerce city up.

720 A.D. Bad trade to Hatty, I don't like doing this, but I really want feudalism. I always dislike trading to the #1 power, but here it is:
Currency + Calendar + Code of Laws to Hatty for Feudalism + 100 gold
Literature to Izzy for 220 gold, not bad
And that brings me to the Medieval Era. No war yet, still room to expand peacefully and expenses are already pretty high.

DrSpike

January 2, 2006, 08:55

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4219911#post4219911

The last one was short, this one is non-existent, as I entered the medieval era in 975BC, shortly after getting Code of Laws. I will thus use this DAR to post some thoughts on civic balance. Bureaucracy is silly right now - Medium upkeep and the way it stacks are just wrong. It should stack the same way as other bonuses stack and should clearly be high upkeep. This way when high upkeep (which gets very high late on) really kicks in there just might be an incentive to switch to free speech, depending on how your empire is set up.

This is jumping ahead but Representation and Suffrage should also have their upkeeps swapped (or at least representation made medium) which impacts upon the debate as suffrage and free speech are complementary. This one is not so bad as I had to make a conscious decision to stay with representation later on, but it's too good for low upkeep.

DrSpike

January 2, 2006, 10:10

Part 4:

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4219985#post4219985

joncnunn

January 2, 2006, 17:04

Well, Free Speach & Emmancipation were both increased from None to Low while Slavery was decrased from Low to None.

Enviormentalism got the bigest change, it now only requires Medicine and was also reduced from High to Medium.

Yes, on this map Bureauracity is pretty darn good and I can also see how a map where it isn't is probably calling for building the palace elsewhere.

Originally posted by DrSpike
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4219911#post4219911

The last one was short, this one is non-existent, as I entered the medieval era in 975BC, shortly after getting Code of Laws. I will thus use this DAR to post some thoughts on civic balance. Bureaucracy is silly right now - Medium upkeep and the way it stacks are just wrong. It should stack the same way as other bonuses stack and should clearly be high upkeep. This way when high upkeep (which gets very high late on) really kicks in there just might be an incentive to switch to free speech, depending on how your empire is set up.

This is jumping ahead but Representation and Suffrage should also have their upkeeps swapped (or at least representation made medium) which impacts upon the debate as suffrage and free speech are complementary. This one is not so bad as I had to make a conscious decision to stay with representation later on, but it's too good for low upkeep.

DrSpike

January 2, 2006, 17:56

Free Speech is fine as low, as long as bureaucracy is high. :)

And I don't think it is just this map. For medium upkeep and available so early (even without Oracle shenanigans) the civic is just too good.

Fribur

January 3, 2006, 23:07

I must say I’m already nervous entering into the Classical Era. Because of my failed gambit, two other civs are now over 100 score points ahead of me, and I have little to show for it. I have almost no military, with Genghis as both my nearest competitor and the points leader.

My plan? Get the wheel so my workers can get to work, then push for the alphabet to catch up on tech through trade. Then, we switch over to iron working, and hopefully find some iron to mine in a better position than that copper. After iron working, we’ll likely work back toward wonders and build infrastructure.

DAR 1 (http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?postid=4222211#post4222211)
DAR 2 (http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?s=&postid=4222338&t=4688#post4222338)
DAR 3 (http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?s=&postid=4222762#post4222762)
DAR 4 (http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?s=&postid=4223429#post4223429)

950: I forgot to mention in the last DAR, I went ahead and did open borders with Genghis, and sent the Confucian missionary his way.

925: Warrior done in New York, I send him up northwest to protect against Barbs. I begin work on a barracks, as this city has much more production than the other, and I need to start work on my much neglected military.

The second settler created last turn is teaming up with a warrior and heading north to claim the copper and finish blocking off unwanted people from expanding to my west.

875: The Wheel is done, switching to the Alphabet.

825: Someone built Stonehenge.

800: My first Great Scientist creates the academy. Mmmmmm. Unfortunately, barbarians are invading my land, and I have managed to create a warrior in Washington to appear exactly the same turn that the barbarian will take it over. Stupid, stupid, stupid mistake I haven’t really done before, but I guess now I will learn something… which comes first? The barbarian’s attack or my production of the warrior? Now we see…

775: My stupidity isn’t beaten down… the warrior appears and deflects the attack. I live to see another day. Genghis also converted to Confucianism, and so my borders are about to close down once again, at least until I can fill more of the empty spaces behind me. If he gets annoyed at that, I’ll convert to Confucianism as well.

750: Philadelphia and Boston have now both been founded. Neither is in a great spot, but the two combined completely block the enemy. Philly also gives me copper, which will certainly help. It’s time to turn my attention westward and fill in some of the empty land with cities. I have my eye on several spots, and tentative sites for a total of ten more cities in this area. Since I am more or less sealed off at this point, I can now start with the most profitable sites first, then fill in the various edges. I see at least two barbarian cities that have formed so far that will have to be dealt with.

575: Wow, I seem to be in serious trouble. I just finished Alphabet and am beginning the tech trade process, and it seems that I am far, far behind in tech already. The only one I have that seems to be consistently missing from others is Writing, and they aren’t trading much for it. Ahh well, I’ll have to make catching up a priority. I pick up Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Meditation, and Hunting and research on Iron Working. After Iron working, I will go for Music for the free artist. I can see already that Boston is going to have a cultural battle with Isabella.

Now that I finally have pottery, I can start up all the cottages I’ve been dying to do, as well. Gogo financial trait! What’s more, horses popped near New York. Now I just need to hope for some nearby iron…

550: Copper is mined! Time to start working on some axemen to beef up my defense and consider trying to take out Isabella. Isabella is in last place in points, and will soon be pushing hard on my Boston culture border.

475: Not much happened here—I’m still working on infrastructure while one city is building axemen. I did, however, come up with an idea… why not gift Boston to Isabella and earn her trust, then let her deal with Genghis? After I get rid of the barbarian city behind Boston, I shall try just that.

425: Iron Working is done. Switched to Archery, only because it was a single turn to research. Iron pops near Washington, making me quite happy. A nearby worker will be shipped out to grab it soon, thus reducing my dependence on my copper deposit located right next to Genghis.

Also, I’ve started Chichen Itza in New York. It already has a temple and is the founding city for Confucianism, and so I’m looking to give it some religious heft, and produce a great prophet to make the great temple. If I pull that off, open borders will become less of a forbidden object for me, as I will try to convert as many cities as possible with missionaries.

375: Archery done, I’m now working on Mathematics, with an eye toward music. I tend to really like great people, and first to music is a free artist! I have all the military tech I need to defend myself and take out the barbarian cities as I develop the land to the west.

300: ouch. Literally a turn before me, Genghis managed to kill the barbarian city and take it as his own. With ivory, a secondary iron source, stone, and wheat, this is a powerful city, and if I let it go, giving Boston to Isabella would be pointless.

I have decided to take a huge risk. I have one turn to try to take out Genghis’ new city. I will take it, and immediately gift Boston to Isabella. This means I will have only a single small front to fight Genghis on. I stop production on Chichen Itza and start pumping out axemen. My capital is put on creating settlers to continue building in the empty land to the west.

275: The Genghis city has been taken, and Boston is now a Spaniard city. Isabella is happy with me, after I gave her Code of Laws declared war on Genghis. Things are heating up in a hurry, and frankly, I don’t have the military to do it alone. Genghis does not seem to have access to copper or iron, however, and this in the end could be his undoing. I could certainly be wrong, however—I simply haven’t seen anything with my limited scouting.

Turfan is his closest city to me, and has access to a few resources I could actually use. With two archers, it will be my first target, once I have four axemen or so. I’m last in points, however, and he’s in second place behind Hatshepsut—I should not underestimate his ability to summon reinforcements in a hurry.

200: I’m gathering my existing axemen to head out toward Turfan. Once I have four, I am heading in. I’ve sent one and a spearman over toward it now, to do some pillaging and take out his archers (still so far his only military, plus the chariot I killed earlier) if they happen to expose themselves.

150: Took out an archer / settler combo he was trying to sneak by me, producing a worker for me that I could certainly use. I lost an axeman in the attack, but one of my cities is putting them out every four turns at this point, and so it feels like an acceptable loss.

100: Mathematics discovered. Literature began. I don’t see any need to push more military tech right now as he seems to be missing resources to mount a significant attack on me.

75: Settler trained in Washington with population rush. This one will go in the black area between New York and the new city I stole from Genghis. I will have two wine in it’s radius and a river, but no special food. This will help stop expansion from Isabella to the east while connecting my cities into a single unified empire.

150AD: oh snap. I make silly mistakes. I left my new city Atlanta with only a warrior to defend it, and Genghis snuck a chariot through and razed it. Because I don’t have chariots of my own, I couldn’t catch up to the chariot once he got through the front lines :/. Work will now have to begin on a replacement city, and quickly, as I’ve seen Isabella running around with settlers looking for a place to call home. In the meantime, my force gathering around Turfan is getting ready to strike. The roads around Turfur have been razed to prevent quick reinforcements. Three archers in defense, I’m waiting until I have six axemen. Four are there now, and one more on the way. Another has been sent to deal with the chariot. It’s almost time.

In other news, my second great scientist has arrived. Since Washington is my undisputed science king, I made him a super specialist. The science in my four cities right now is 33 in Washington, and 1 in each of the other three.

175: Literature gained. Last turn I also did some trading with Saladin for Monotheism and the Calendar. On the downside, my economy is starting to hurt from the military units. I’m at 50% tech with zero gold and breaking even atm, which certainly isn’t sustainable. On the good side, the assault on Turfan will happen in about 4 turns, and then perhaps I’ll call it quits and get around to building to the west.

250: Turfan is down! Genghis Khan falls below me in score. Only Isabella remains further down the list. Saladin and I are neck and neck, while Bismarck and Hatshepsut have pulled ahead.

I’m torn between finishing Genghis off and letting him be while I fill out to the west. However, since while he has a military tech advantage over me, he does not have the resources, and therefore won’t be a thread until he manages to find it through trade, conquest, or exploration overseas. Therefore, I’m going to make my peace with him for now and go expand westward (really, for real this time!).

350: Genghis briefly establishes a city in my old city’s spot, but is immediately thwarted in the same turn. Meanwhile, I am a turn away from a settler in Philly, to put my own city back there where it belongs.

375: Ghenghis wants peace, and offers all his gold to do it. He won’t give me any techs, but I take it anyway, so I could focus on taking out the barbarian cities in the west and finish up the development of my section of the continent. Currently, I’m not third place, behind Hatshepsut and Bismark, both of whom are about 100 points ahead.

450: Chicago founded in Atlanta’s old spot. Also, I forgot to mention it, but I started the Great Library in Washington. There isn’t a lot of hammers in Washington (10 if fully utilized), but hopefully it will finish. I will use slavery to finish it off as soon as I am able.

550: Someone builds the Great Lighthouse. My guess is that it’s Egypt, which has moved up to a 130 point lead from me. I haven’t been working on wonders for a while, and may turn myself in that direction. In the meantime, my workers are building up that original city that started the war with Genghis, and it will soon join the others as a production powerhouse.

560: I’m seeing some galleys running around my borders, so in an attempt to keep other civs from settling in my area, I will be sending my settlers to make the ocean cities first to establish borders. Then I will fill in the middle. My first settler is being sent to the north west to

570: Isabella urges me to turn Jewish. Almost the entire world has already done so, and since Isabella is the founder and my ally, I go ahead and do it so that I can make nice with some of the other folks. Also, I restart Chichen Itza in New York. While I’m now behind in the religion race, if I manage it I’ll grab the Taoist super temple and start trying to convert everyone over for the cash.

640: With the discovery of Music, I enter the Medieval Era and end this DAR report. The first to music, I get a great artist, which I decide to save for future culture bomb use. I check the techs, and manage to trade Code of Laws for Construction to Bismark.

Here's my map. A lot happened over this DAR, and I regret not taking more screenshots to show how various city's changed hands. It would make the description make more sense, I suppose. As my next general push will be toward the west, I have marked proposed spots for my new cities, in the order that I would settle them. After all or most of them are founded, I will go finish Genghis off, then see where we go from there. Because I'm keeping my borders closed, I have no real idea who the other powers are arrayed on my continent.

http://www.bsu.edu/web/MASUTTON2/images/AU100 DAR 30000.JPG

troglodyte

January 11, 2006, 01:37

Originally posted by Derelict
INDEX

<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_02.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_02.jpg) | <img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_03.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=71414_AU-100_classical_03.jpg)

Forgive the idiotic question, but how did you get the comparison of the stats for Spain and US in the above graphic. Is this an edited/cropped screenie, or is there some particular function/screen in the Advisors (which I can't find)?

Cort Haus

January 11, 2006, 06:40

That's a pre-1.52 graph. It was needed because the default graph was impossible to use. The 1.52 graphs allow comparisons between all civs so the individual comparison isn't needed.

fed1943

January 12, 2006, 12:27

1360- Trade with Saladin masonry for archery.Judaism founded elsewhere.
1160- Researched mathematics,begin calendar.Washington build barracks,begin axeman.
1080- NY connected with Washington.
1040- Trade with Hats writing and sailing for meditation and polyteism.
950- Open boards with Germany.
925- Washinghton finishes axeman,begins settler.
875- Researched calendar,begin priesthood.
825- Priesthood;begin code of laws.
750- Washinghton builds settler,begin worker.NY builds granary,begin library.
725- Hants converts to judaism.
700- Isabella adopts organized religion.
675-Washington builds worker,begins axeman.
650- I cancel deals with mongols.Washington builds axeman,begin settler.(Two hard decisions:W is in bad shape;the worker is caring for hapiness,but right now only the city itself can do something about health.I decide to mantain expansive for a little more.I decide,too,found the third city in the bold place;Genghis will not be happy).Boston founded by river,cows,cooper,not gems.Begins granary.
625- Researched code of laws;begin literature.Founded confucionism in Boston,but not converted yet.Noticed barbarian state SW Washington.
550-Genghis converts to confucionism.
525-Researched literature;begins music.My confucian missionary spread to Washington.
475-Washinghton builds settler,begin worker.
450- Pyramids builded elsewhere.Hats converts hinduism.
425- Bysmark adopts representation.
400- Stonehenge builded elsewhere.
375-Washinghton builds worker,begin aquaduct.Huts adopts hereditary rule.Philadelphia founded N Washington,by wine,corn and horses,no river.
350-I´m 3rd largest,behind Genghis and Hats.NY pops library,begin barracks.Research down to 90%.
250- Phil connected,Washington´worker go help north.
225- Researched music,got artist,begin monarchy.

Vulcanis

January 16, 2006, 00:34

DAR 3 : The Classical Era- 875BC-75AD

Technology Researched(order researched):
Iron Working, Alphabet, Monarchy, Feudalism

Religions Founded:

Cities Built:
Philadelphia(425BC)
Atlanta(200BC)
Chicago(50BC)

Notable Events:
Confuscianism adopted by America
Oracle Built in London, England(775BC) a mere 4 turns before NY would have completed it(giving me CS for free)
Pyramids Built in London, England(75BC)
Mongols took a barbarian city South of me, gainign a foothold in my territory

F9 Rankings:
GNP: Rank 1
Production: Rank 4
Food: Rank 2
Soldiers: Rank 7
Population: Rank 3
Land Area: Rank 2
Points: 494(third place)

Things I did well:
I began expanding again without any strain on my economy, did some good, quick science upgrading, and added an Academy in Washington

Things I could improve:
I need to improve my production faster, I saw the Mongols bringing a chariot to the barbarian city...I should have let him kill the first warrior and taken out the second, not vice versa.

Things I did horribly:
I've fallen behind the Egyptians and Mongols again, I can expand to 4 or 5 more cities before things will start getting cramped...unfortunately, only Hatty has an open borders treaty with me, so spreading Confuscianism is gonna be hard, I turned everyone down to protect my backlands, but that has now backfired on me.

lordrune

January 31, 2006, 05:47

Noble Difficulty

Quicklinks
DAR 1 4000 BC - 1520 BC (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4262713&t=3488#post4262713)
DAR 2 1520 BC - 250 BC (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4264121t=3738#post4264121)
DAR 3 250 BC - 740 AD (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4264188&t=3738#post4264188)
DAR 4 740 - 1390 (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4264323&t=3738#post4264323)

DAR 3 250 BC - 740 AD

175 BC - Philadelphia began building the American Navy, a galley. Primarily for exploration purposes.

125 BC - Hatshepshut joined the growing Jewish community.

50 BC - Washington was growing quickly, sort of inevitable given the floodplains. The high population was starting to hurt health - not a problem - but some citizens were unhappy due to overcrowding. can't wait for that Jewish Temple.

25 BC - Jewish Temple built in Washington! And Code of Laws discovered. Immediately started building the very useful courthouse.

50 AD - Saladin becomes another brother of the faith.

250 AD - Genghis Khan turns a bit dirty. After converting to the sect of Christianity, he cancels his open borders with me. I start building troops.

300 AD - We don't yet have a Great Wonder. I decided to fix this, by starting construction of the Great Library in New York.

375 AD - A Mongol city of Ning-Hsia on our northern border starts to revolt, its people obviously appreciating American culture more than Mongol culture. No surprise there.

500 AD - Ning-Hsia joined our glorious civilization. We gave it a proper name - Austin.

580 AD - A couple of horse archers destroyed a barbarian city of Tarsus down the southwest.

640 AD - Founded the promising city of Atlanta at the edge of the southern tundra. Close bby, we have the valuable resources of stone, iron, furs, and pigs.

740 AD - Philosophy is discovered, and with it we enter the Medieval Age.

At the end of the Classical Age, The Great Library is on the verge of completion, and we now have a horde of horse archers. America is first in GNP, Mfg Goods, Score, Food, Soldiers, Land Area, and Population. We are the technical superior to all other civilizations. The Mongols are our closest rival in this area, having construction, compass, and theology... and refusing to trade any of them. We need to teach them a lesson.

Isabella has seduced our Jewish brothers into embracing the Buddhist heresy. We should raise missionaries, and convert them back to Judaism. As for Isabella, she will have to wait. The Mongols are a bigger concern.

Our army consists of 7 archers, 8 horse archers, and 2 chariots.

We discovered technologies in this order: Code of Laws, Monarchy, Mathematics (from Genghis Khan), Literature, Currency (425 AD), Calendar, Drama, Philosophy (740 AD).

Northeastern America:
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=77993_AU100DAR3a.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=77993_AU100DAR3a.jpg)

Southwestern America:
<img src=http://apolyton.net/upload/thumb.php?x=800&file=77993_AU100DAR3b.jpg> (http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=77993_AU100DAR3b.jpg)