First game played :) [Archive] - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 06:03

Snoopy's first game :)

Noble level, playing Mao Tse Tung - China (Philosophical/Organized).

Basics ... started in a decent spot, near the japanese, on a 3-player continent, russia on the other end. Japan is in a sort of annoying spot ... more on that later ;)

Have all the major resources though, and a nice midcontinental river ...

Here's a pic of a barbarian city that's in an annoying spot :( I'm not sure i can beat this ... and yes, this is the only available iron :(

Ennet

October 27, 2005, 06:08

nice pic of the barb city :b: to capturing it

EDIT: ooo this is the review forum, replies may be bad? =/

MarkG

October 27, 2005, 06:12

started on Noble :shame:

dark future i see for you

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 06:46

Okay ... Snoopy's SECOND game. First game ended when I decided it wasn't worth losing a horribly onesided war to the russians ... :lol:

Starting position is pretty good ... mmm, ivory. Statue of Zeus anyone? :lol:

alva

October 27, 2005, 06:57

Originally posted by MarkG
started on Noble :shame:

dark future i see for you

Even you someday beat the noble level will. ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 06:58

Romans :)

I went Polytheism first, good thing since someone discovered meditation before I would have ...

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 07:03

yeah, go snoopy go!
man, i wish i was playing the game now
by the way, what are your system specs? had no issues with the game?
btw, who kicked your ass? cathy or peter?

alva

October 27, 2005, 07:04

Decent land.

Ivory :evil:

Use the resource button, especially at the beginning of the game.

Nikolai

October 27, 2005, 07:25

/me looks forward to play this game ~a week from now...:expect:

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 07:28

Woot! Hinduism! :)

Yes, resource button will be used ;) Cleaner screenshot when not on though ... ;)

Now I work on Hunting -> Animal Husbandry to use those cows... then Monotheism maybe... :)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 07:35

Experience is good ... got 5 exp from a hut, after losing my last warrior this helps a lot :) 5/5 xp now, so i went the 2-woodsman route... 2 mps in forest :b:

Also see some decent possibilities north of me ... rome has west pretty blocked off... :(

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 07:42

Hmm, here we have some pretty good resources ;)

Need some more time to build settlers though ... working on obelisk first in Mecca until I grow to size 4, then worker, then settler. :)

alva

October 27, 2005, 07:42

Why the obelisk?

Solver

October 27, 2005, 08:33

Also, don't underrate Ivory. It lets you create War Elephants which are ancient Tanks. Be sure to have Barracks by the time you build Elephants for a free promotion, and those babies may be able to run over a city all by themselves.

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 09:11

Barracks :b: ... :)

Obelisk was something to do while it grew up to a decent size. I'm trying the strategy of build-up-city-before-worker #1 (to have enough shields/food to produce worker #1 quickly)...

Here's a pic of me finally remembering to research farming ... this researching-worker-tasks thing is hard to remember :(

alva

October 27, 2005, 09:13

:lol:

I still get caught with those, old habits die hard. ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 09:13

Oops, forgot the pic :)

At least I'm researching it before the first worker is born :)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 09:49

Medina founded ... an ocean city with some fish :) I guess i need to research some water-based stuff now :cute:

Found many opponents, 5 already... open borders across the board :)

Working on barracks now in Mecca.

Ninot

October 27, 2005, 10:32

GARRHHHH!!! Renaissance Europe has never seemed so torturous

I NEED TO GET TO A STORE!

Solver

October 27, 2005, 11:02

I'd build a Work Boat in Medina if I were you, working that Fish resource will give you a real food boost. In fact, the city has very nice potential. Two hill tiles to be mined for acceptable production, coast and cottaged plains for loads of commerce.

Ninot

October 27, 2005, 11:04

It'll really get into shape when Mohammad goes there.

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 14:46

Medina indeed gets a workboat and some mines ... :)

600bc, I get my first Great Prophet, thanks mostly to Stonehenge in Mecca. :) He makes the Hindu Shrine, instantly solving my gold income problem ;)

Rome a few turns before also got a Hindu Missionary sent to them, to try and convert one of their cities; it succeeds, and a few turns later Rome converts to Hinduism :b: Probably saves me from a war with them, they were getting annoyed at our proximity. I love the fact that "our close borders cause tension" is a major reason for AI aggression ... it makes a lot of sense :)

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 14:56

okay, time to spill some blood :doitnow!: find some heathens and see if they bleed red (to paraphrase RTW speeches:lol: )

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 14:59

475 BC and I got my first city flip! Hinduism caused antioch to flip over to me. It was right on my border anyway ...

Also was first to Theology, meaning Medina is now the Christian holy city. I guess I should convert some heathens to that, also, so i get more gold ... ;) Maybe the indians, just to be ironic.

Went ahead and converted to Theocracy, also ... seemed appropriate for a religious-based state :) Will that hurt my christianity movement, is the question though (and do I want any of my people converting to christianity??) Can I work with them not bein christian but still gain advantages of the christian holy city?

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 15:09

okay, it seems that julius is a wuss. let's see if alexander and asoka are any better :)
built any archers yet?

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 15:23

No... I'm a peace loving civilization, whose only interests are spreading Hinduism and the word of the Lord throughout the lands... ;)

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 15:26

i've heard it through the grapewine....'you don't build archers, you get your a** handed to you on a plate' ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 15:57

Well, I'm building war elephants... good enough? :) Archers are useless at this stage in the game (nearly gunpowder now) and nobody's tried attacking me yet ... Romans (my near and dear friends) are staying well bought off, and nobody else has any reason to attack me :)

Anyway, I'm apparently getting too much of a tech lead ... the AI won't play nice with me anymore in tech trading :(

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 16:13

cool. tech whoring is indeed dead.
are you playing on noble?

alva

October 27, 2005, 16:20

Snoopy, you can't spread non-state religion in Theocracy. :p

It's a very good civic for war though, those extra XP points can really make teh difference. ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 16:30

Hm, maybe i should get out of theocracy ... not really going to war here :cute:

Noble indeed.

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 16:35

Some random demographic and whatnot.

All this is at AD 150.

First, tech tree ... :)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 16:37

Demographics screen.

Doing well in production, not particularly well in military and health.

Oddity: My imports/exports are 8/10 and rivals are 6/6, but i'm worst (well 7th, not sure if 7 or 8 civs) in that field. Seems like I am better than average (both in total import/export volume and in +2 net exports) ...

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 18:30

Culture Bomb :)

I haven't quite finished the bomb yet, as i still need more culture, and a missionary ... but i'm working on taking over the only nearby stone resource, which is sadly owned by my friends the romans ... :) (Red circle)

Great Artist Homer = Great Work = 4000 culture in Baghdad. Missionary is next :)

Oh, and I made the colossus in Damascus, and am nearly done with the great lighthouse :b:

LaRusso

October 27, 2005, 18:41

too easy ;)

Jon Shafer

October 27, 2005, 19:27

Originally posted by snoopy369
Oddity: My imports/exports are 8/10 and rivals are 6/6, but i'm worst (well 7th, not sure if 7 or 8 civs) in that field. Seems like I am better than average (both in total import/export volume and in +2 net exports) ...
It's somewhat counter-intuitive... Imports is gold you're bringing in while Exports is the gold you're sending out to other nations... thus having a higher IMPORTS is good. Just how things were named, I'm afraid. ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 19:46

Ah.

Well, that's sort of a mercantilist way of thinking i guess ... but not exactly modern economics :cute:

:p

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 19:47

Culture-bomb got sidetracked, because the Japanese decided to war against me. Silly japanese ... :shame:

I took one of their cities, the one close to me, mostly to stop them from annoying me :lol: Haven't lost a unit yet, except a wandering Xtian monk who i had forgotten about ... ;)

Jerh9e1k5

October 27, 2005, 20:47

Thanks for the story Snoopy! Keep it up :b:

Originally posted by snoopy369
Ah.

Well, that's sort of a mercantilist way of thinking i guess ... but not exactly modern economics :cute:

:p

Don't mean to nit-pick but from what I've learned about economics the system portrayed in the game is pretty standard. In order to make money you have to have more coming in then going out. ;)

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 20:55

Jer, it's more that usually imports/exports refer to goods, not gold, so saying that exporrts are 2 higher than imports usually refers to the country selling 2 more units of goods abroad than they buy from abroad, rather than saying that we are sending more gold abroad than we are intaking, which is a mercantilist philosophy (not unreasonable for a game like civ, which certainly covers the mercantilist period well ... ;)

Anyway, the japanese war is completed, and just in time too :) I was going to attack them, but didn't really want to waste the time; and then they noticed the elephants below (and the swordsman under them, and the other elephant flanking from the south, offscreen), and decided that 110gp wasn't too much to pay for peace in our time :)

SO back to the culture bomb thing. Guess what, i got another great artist ... and that japanese city is in JUST the place to place another great work :) You can just see him in the far southeast corner of the screenie. Thespis shall create a great work of drama to encourage the stonemasons to become Arab stonemasons instead of romans :)

Louis XXIV

October 27, 2005, 23:17

Very cool, another game to keep my eye on :cool:

BTW, mercantilists believe that they should export more than they import anyway, since imports involves gold leaving their country. Its just that colonies only trade with the mother country, but the mother country can send back finished products (and distribute colonial goods to other nations). So this isn't really mercantalistic either.

While it might seem confusing to us, we're just over thinking it. Its much more practical to show gold imports and exports than it is to show goods.

snoopy369

October 27, 2005, 23:57

Mercantilists focus on the gold, is what I was saying. :) There's no difference between (gold import/export) and (goods export/import); although the numbers are different on either side of the /, the difference is the same (assuming a monocurrency system). You're either net-importing gold, or net-exporting it... it's just that modern economists realize the meaninglessness of 'gold', and the true value is in the products. :)

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 00:00

AD 1040, and my culturebomb is not doing what I'd hoped, although who knows how hard it'll be to flip this sucker. Antioch flipped easily, but it was a very different scenario - antioch had no squares on its right side at all, those were all mine.

But, I got dyes out of this... and i just need to move *one* square of border. Eventually both of my cities will expand ... 1000 cp's later ...

Oh yeah, i got my first GMerchant, and founded Islam. I've now founded:

Hinduism
Christianity
Taosm
Islam

meaning that all of the religions are out (buddhism, confucianism and judaism went to othe civs).

I've also got essentially all of the wonders, and i'm still going on this ... I think noble might be too easy with the culture strat ;)

Bill3000

October 28, 2005, 00:18

And you havn't explored much of the map yet... :eek:

LaRusso

October 28, 2005, 02:16

Originally posted by Trip

It's somewhat counter-intuitive... Imports is gold you're bringing in while Exports is the gold you're sending out to other nations... thus having a higher IMPORTS is good. Just how things were named, I'm afraid. ;)

ah, 'income' and 'expenses', or a total of 'current account deficit/suficit"

you gotta clear this minor thing in the very first patch....:)

edit: what are the levels above noble?

Colonel Kraken

October 28, 2005, 10:25

Wow. Great job on your first game, Snoopy. Thanks for the great story.

conmcb25

October 28, 2005, 10:43

Having fun with the new game I see Snoopdog :b:

You are doing better than I was on Noble. ;)

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 13:01

Oh, i sucked totally in game 1... but I think the culture game is easier than the conquest game, by far. I'm intrigued to see how this works out in MP :cute:

Okay, update for today #1. I'm trying to get an actual culture victory now, just because it's probably easiest (or most appropriate at least). I found out it is 50k culture in THREE cities ... :eek:

Sadly, i've already used 4 GA's in 2 cities that are neither one particularly big producers of culture, but i need to stick with those two anyway (plus my capital) because they're each over 8000 culture, which is more than any other city'll get to by itself.

So my three pronged approach:
1) Running at 20% culture right now. I still get plenty of techs, but now i get a few more culture per turn in those big cities :)
2) Going for wonders in those cities, starting with Versailles. That should allow me to build more quickly, and increase my culture/turn there.
3) GPs. At first i'm trying for a great engineer, but eventually i'll be trying for great artists... so far only great merchants :( I'll use my non-GAs/GEs for golden ages.

I also found the Aztecs... who hate me already :) Aww, poor guys ... I'm so scared ... really ... ;)

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 13:15

1410, and I'm in a Golden Age! :) I've finished the Taj Mahal in Mecca, and am nearly done with the Spiral Minaret in Satsuma (one of my 8000+ culture cities). Baghdad (city #2 >8000 culture) is about 14 turns from Versailles, I may actually finish it :)

Oh, and I am apparently not building enough military, according to the opinion of Bede ... for some reason i'm not too worried :)

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 13:23

Couldn't resist posting this ... India has apparently realized that i'm halfway done converting THEM to my religion, so they are trying to counteract this :)

Dueling Missonaries! :)

Solver

October 28, 2005, 14:04

Culture victory is the easiest? Well well, good luck :).

The AIs may decide to conquer you anyway ;).

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 16:29

Yeah, sure Solver ... good luck to them with that :)

I am now at war with Japan for the second time. There are three civs - Japan, Rome, and Aztecs - who couldn't beat me under any concievable scenario. The Indians are the only ones i'm worried about, and i'm carefully keeping them very, very happy. :) The other two civs (England and Greece) are too far away to have any reason to war with me, or any real ability to wage it.

Below is a picture of what's going to happen to Edo next turn :) I have two more Camel Archers also down there within range next turn... The AI was kind enough to send all of its catapults and several other units away this past turn (to go attack the Indians, i think, or the Romans, both of which I asked politely to help slaughter the Japanese...)

I'm also going to try and take Bangalore culturally. I'm going to settle next to the horses (one to the west of them), which should be settleable. Bangalore as it is, is only 55% indian ... thanks to my amazing cultural city there :)

Vlad Antlerkov

October 28, 2005, 17:05

Seems like I'm going to have to get used to purple Romans (although I suppose it makes some sense, what with the togas with the purple stripe and whatnot). At least India is still a shade of purple. :)

Also, what the heck is that one tile south of Satsuma?

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 17:20

One tile south of Satsuma is an irrigated Rice Paddy. :) It gives +1 health (it's a resource).

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 18:29

Osaka's mine ... and so is a marble square, as soon as i can manage 10 culture in there (hmm, maybe a great artist should be diverted ... though that would slow down my culture victory ... must consider this) ...

Kyoto's next ... next pic will be the conquest of the Japanese capital :D

Notice what's 1 square NW of osaka ... :)

Simplicity

October 28, 2005, 18:48

Sorry, snoopy, but I think you're in for a massive whooping fairly soon. It's far easier in this game to over-emphasize growth/culture without proper defense.

Given your military status (low)... I think the AIs are going to demolish you...

Solver

October 28, 2005, 19:03

Snoopy, I certainly hope that Asoka and Alexander gang up on you and give you a beating, just so you could see how it happens :).

Scrapper82

October 28, 2005, 19:05

War Elephants will hopefully help.

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 19:10

I don't think i'm that weak any more ... and I'm giving a massive whupping to the japanese, supposedly #4. Not that i'm saying i'd be doing this to the #1 civ, but ... they haven't killed anything on offense, at all, and have maybe killed 3 units total of mine :) (In part thanks to the camel archer...)

I'd love to see the power graph now. :)

I'm also doing a LOT to keep people friendly with me. Even mortal enemies are okay with me... alexander and Asoka for example :) I'm giving techs as i need to, making favorable trades, and involving them on my side in wars. Lots of green plusses. Only the #4 and #5 civs in that power graph are mad at me (japanese and aztecs), and the aztecs are on another continent (which i'm keeping one eye on the shipping of).

But we'll see :)

Anyway, Kyoto is about to fall to me (I hope). I have a few camel archers in reserve if this falls, plus several macemen, but I think this will succeed, based on my successes in other cities. Surprisingly, Kyoto (their capital) only gives them a 60% defense, compared to Edo's original 100%; obviously they didn't properly work to defend their capital ...

After Kyoto, there is only Pisae and Tokyo left. I will probably go ahead and eliminate them, to ensure I keep osaka (the only one I really care about). Suggestions on keeping or razing Kyoto? It has sugar, which none of my other cities have ... on the other hand, Osaka will have sugar once it hits 100 culture (3 radius), and it'll do that fairly soon once i start building aggressively in there.

The pasted parts are my units - in two stacks. The lefthand unit list are the Japanese. They attacked once already with a catapult, that withdrew and did small bits of collateral damage to various units (6). I probably should have moved the units that got there early down to another square or two... hard to get used to the fact that, unless you have a unit that's city raider, it's to your advantage generally for the enemy to attack you out of the city (since units have same att/def value), and thus no reason to leave in a stack (at least not with these units, camel archers are fine with being attacked)...

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 19:17

Asoka and Alexander don't like each other one bit ... so that's unlikely. It's certainly likely that they'd kick the crud out of me if they ever did gang up, but they were mortal enemies from the start :) Asoka got mad at me for a while for trading with alexander ... ;)

I'm +10/-3 to Asoka, and I'm +15/-3 to Alexander... :) Alexander is also Hindu, thanks to my conversions, and Asoka may follow suit soon (going to convert a few more of his cities post-war). I'm also in the process of weaseling Bangelore away from Asoka, which will weaken him considerably, although he has a LOT of cities; Bangalore has several valuable happiness and healh resources.

And with his cities being hindu, I can notice a buildup and stop him :)

James

October 28, 2005, 19:24

Great reporting. Please play all weekend like this. :D

Solver

October 28, 2005, 19:31

If Bangalore has good resources, then you aren't going to have a very easy time flipping the city, as Asoka will probably work towards preventing it.

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 20:14

Yeah ... and apparently they built a city in a place preventing me from getting in there anyway :grr: I hate this 2-square-radius ... very annoying. Mind you, it prevents the AI from doing some things too ;) ... but I'm trickier :)

I gave up on Kyoto, because I was not succeeding in taking it. I did force Japan to close in and bring basically all of its troops in; so hopefully they'll be a long while rebuilding. I had thought I'd capture it with the forces I already had, so I didn't have enough units to reinforce the attack.

Sadly, I was within a 0.1 pt longbowman of defeating them; but the next turn they brought in 2 full longbowmen. Sigh...

I'm basically praying Osaka stays around long enough to expand... theatre coming up, and a hindu missionary to keep it more loyal to me.

Makahlua

October 28, 2005, 20:55

As soon as I saw all the longbowmen (especially since they all had City Garrison promotions!), I figured you'd get in trouble. I have come to just -hate- those guys when I'm on offense - nothing like a few CG longbowmen to whittle down a stack lacking archery defense specilzation...

Should've done what Tokugawa's been doing to me; raze as you leave, when you know you can't outright take things. Someone's been teaching the AI new tricks :lol:

snoopy369

October 28, 2005, 21:51

Yeah, i probably should have, but ...

I think I had slightly rotten luck in that one. Once I attacked with a 5/8 maceman, against a war elephant, maybe 2:1 odds or something like that against me of course - but I didn't even take 0.1 away from the elephant :eek:

Ah, oh well. :)

Guess what I just saw on my screen ... :D

Louis XXIV

October 28, 2005, 23:13

Originally posted by Simplicity
Sorry, snoopy, but I think you're in for a massive whooping fairly soon. It's far easier in this game to over-emphasize growth/culture without proper defense.

Given your military status (low)... I think the AIs are going to demolish you...

Doesn't culture give you defensive bonuses?

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 00:18

Well, now i'm in a bind, so I'm going military again :) Alexander is eventually going to force me to war with Asoka, and so I'm preparing for it.

1. Collecting great leaders in the hopes of starting a golden age!
2. Build up camel archers, for the next ... 3 turns, and then start building cavalry!
3. Also build grenadiers in a few cities. The Indians have riflemen, and :eek: have upgraded most of their defensive units to riflemen! That's a good sign this AI is not entirely dumb...
4. Try to get printing press. I haven't built it myself, due to other wants, and the thought that someone would trade it to me. Nope, the AIs won't, none of them ... nor education. Odd, since i'm at most 2 techs ahead of the 3 leading AIs ... they all consider me too far ahead. Heck, 2 techs ahead and 2-3 techs behind (printing press + rifles+education for india; education + liberalism for greece, at minimum) ... maybe they need to re-balance this feature of it. I'd think an AI should trade when you're equals in tech ...
5. Try to get Osaka connected up. This is sort of a side project ... but check out the borders around Osaka. For a while I only had the center square to work, plus ONE other square (63 of the center square, or east then southeast)... now I have *2*. That's at 117 culture ... :( May use a Great Artist to fix this :evilgrin: ... also would get me my marble :)

Of course, taking over the Indian cities would help this out as well ... :) The three border cities are shown; Bangalore still borders my culture, so I could stack grenadiers outside it. It has 2 riflemen and 1 pikeman inside, not too bad.

Addled Platypus

October 29, 2005, 00:28

wishing you had a general for that army?

Addled Platypus

October 29, 2005, 01:13

military advisor screenie

...when you can

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 01:18

Getting closer to war ... 1705, and i have my cavalry started, as well as working on printing press myself, since nobody else is kind enough to help me there. :mad:

I'm not a small civ :)

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 01:21

Here you are ... I have to say the mil advisor in civ4 is horribly depressing and useless. There's basically no info in it at all... and clicking on the leaderheads does *nothing* except remove/add the yellow border around them ...

Locutus

October 29, 2005, 02:07

Does clicking on a unit type not do anything? No dots appear on the map?

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 02:20

Hmm. You seem to assume I'm intelligent ... :cute:

Indeed, flashing dots appear when you click on unit types.

I still don't consider this useful, though ... I liked how the military advisor tried to give you an idea of how you compared to other civs (perhaps TOO much of an idea, but who knows), and i liked the more useful unit info ... the dots thing just isn't useful, at least so far. Too low resolution to realistically help, unless you're using it to spot a surprise attack... which i doubt i'd think to do ;)

alva

October 29, 2005, 02:24

nevermind

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 02:25

alva, it's probably just that people don't think to click on unit names, like i didn't... it looks like a list :)

But still, i'd consider it useless regardless of working :cute:

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 03:20

1750, and it's almost time to attack the Indians. Well, not almost, but in a dozen turns or so.

I'm six turns out from the West Point nat'l wonder, and that wonder makes me very glad that they let you keep production on units and buildings while switching production ... I did something you could never do in civ3, which is delay producing SEVERAL units, and then simultaneously (1 turn for each, of course) produce them all :) I only did it in a few cities, and for a few units, but it ensures all of my units get the bonus +4 :)

Attached is what I have so far. It's not a huge force, but in the next 12 turns i should have a much bigger one ... and I may have a golden age by then also :) (Not sure, it's 1600 for a GP now, and i have 1 Great Merchant and 1 Great Engineer, and i'm thinking i should save the engineer for a wonder ...)

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 04:10

Well, I'm now about to get the West Point completed. I have Project Worker Espionage going ... and I'm noticing a bit of a trend in Indian cities. 3-4 riflemen defending them, nothing else. At all.

Then I get to this city ...

Wonder where they want to send this fleet :)

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 08:40

Went off and started a few succession (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139724) games (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139725) ... now back to my game :)

1795, and i'm in a golden age :) I decided to use the Great Engineer, i don't really have any wonders coming up soon, and i have several cities about to pop with reasonable GE potential. (GE = great engineer, convinient given the other non-game meaning it has to most people :) )

I've nearly built up enough forces to feel safe going to war (especially with my Golden Age). This may be an interesting war :)

See all the pretty units :) Lots of cannons this time, i think those will be very useful, especially with +2 collateral damage (+50% net)

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 09:10

Okay, i'm taking the plunge :)

Three stacks. One is at bangalore, hoping to win that right away. 7 Cavalry, 4 cannons. One is going to Circassian, but hoping to get some of those cavalry away from Bangalore, where it shouldn't take me 7 cavalry to beat them I hope ... only 3 cavalry, 2 cannon, and 1 grenadier heading there. Finally, there are 6 cavalry, 2 cannon, 2 grenadier heading to Lahore by way of Osaka (which I'll probably just raze).

I intend to keep these first 3 (border) cities; I may either make peace, or just raze after that, but I don't want too many cities. I'm not going for a domination victory after all... just to hurt the Indians, who are getting too far ahead in the tech race for my comfort. I'd like to draw a few techs out of them, which I may or may not be able to do...

The 'big' Bangalore stack is mouseovered (listed in the left side of the screen) here, the second-biggest Lahore/Osaka stack is currently selected (listed along the bottorm w/icons only).

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 09:24

:)

Lost only 1 cavalry, retreated two. Two were able to go to Circassia, which looks to be easy to take.

Probably the real difficulty will be in *holding* these towns ... I don't have rifling yet, although i'm one turn from RR and that means... machine guns :b:

Solver

October 29, 2005, 09:45

Sadly, I was within a 0.1 pt longbowman of defeating them; but the next turn they brought in 2 full longbowmen. Sigh...

I love this AI :).

Try to get printing press. I haven't built it myself, due to other wants, and the thought that someone would trade it to me. Nope, the AIs won't, none of them ... nor education. Odd, since i'm at most 2 techs ahead of the 3 leading AIs ... they all consider me too far ahead. Heck, 2 techs ahead and 2-3 techs behind (printing press + rifles+education for india; education + liberalism for greece, at minimum) ... maybe they need to re-balance this feature of it. I'd think an AI should trade when you're equals in tech ...

You wish :). The AI isn't stupid, in fact. It knows that Printing Press is a major economy boost, and Education is a major science boost. Therefore, it's very fair that they see no reason to give you these boosts - as long as you don't have these techs, you're at a disadvatnage. This won't always happen, but this is actually a clever AI move.

Looking at your unit stacks, I love the unit promotions and I see you're a fan, too :). Cavalry with Flanking II, Cavalry with Combat I - Pinch, Cannons with Barrage II, ahh, the versatility!

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 11:03

Hah :) Lost a few cavalry this time, the defenders had more experience, and only 2 cannons. Bah. :) But, i'll have a decent supply to send to Lahore when the other pincer force comes in. I delayed the 3rd group one turn, so that hopefully India will attack my stronger bangalore force, while the other two wrap up lahore; then that group can hit Karachi while bangalore wraps up the counterattack and pushes forward to hold the narrow passage to the main indian homeland. :)

Atahualpa

October 29, 2005, 16:56

I've noticed Asoka comes out #1 in all three games that I started so far.

Nikolai

October 29, 2005, 17:55

Same here, in the games I don't win, he wins.

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 18:26

Originally posted by Atahualpa
I've noticed Asoka comes out #1 in all three games that I started so far.

I don't think that's going to happen here ... ;)

Although I'm still concerned about no counterattack. Into turn 3, and ... nothing. He doesn't have a LOT to attack with, definitely build up mostly defensive (riflemen), but he has a dozen knights or so, which if he wanted to could make things a trifle hairy... have some machinegunners coming though :b:

Also, i'm building ironclads in Medina. Nothing says "eek" properly like a few well loaded galleys ... except an Iron clad reception ... ;)

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 18:33

Hmm, thought I saw an attacking unit ... guess it was just a Greek Elephant... :lol:

Speaking of Elephants, I figured a good razing was in store ... lost only 1 grenadier, and that barely.

Nikolai

October 29, 2005, 18:37

I see you only have cavalery in that stack, isn't that somewhat risky?

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 18:41

I have cavalry, cannon, and grenadier. Cavalry just moved in first :) I have grouped the three separately (using ctrl-3, ctrl-4, ctrl-8 for the 3 groups) and i move them en masse :)

Also, the only offensive weapons i've seen so far are knights, so i'm not too worried about all-horse groups. If they want to engage me w/riflemen in the open field, that's a happy day for me, as the riflemen have to be engaged inside cities otherwise ... :)

Solver

October 29, 2005, 18:42

There's a good promotion mix on those Cavalry. While Riflemen are very strong vs. Cavalry if the Riflemen are in the city, but Pinch-promoted Cavalry are a match for Riflemen in the field.

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 19:26

Originally posted by Solver
There's a good promotion mix on those Cavalry. While Riflemen are very strong vs. Cavalry if the Riflemen are in the city, but Pinch-promoted Cavalry are a match for Riflemen in the field.

Yeah, although I did lose one to a rifleman in the field :( Nothing to be done about it though, losses happen ;)

I've found that using Flanking(2) cavalry to start with, even though they're much weaker (-35% relative to the Combat1+pinch group), is effective because both are likely to lose - but flanking(2) have the advantage not only of no first strikes against them, but also of retreating 60% chance, meaning they can soften up the riflemen (taking maybe 5-6 points off of their 14, on average, and as far as down to 3.5 once out of 3 attacks) and not actually die nearly as often - after all, who cares if my first cavalry takes the rifleman down to 2 or so, if he dies 75% of the time, while a 60% chance of survival still brings the rifleman down within range.

Anyway ... guess what? Another turn, another city, another VICTORY ... this is getting easy ;) Although I have to wonder what's waiting for me at Karachi - and if I don't see it there, i'm going to panic and start poprushing ironclads ...

Solver

October 29, 2005, 19:46

BTW, retreat is attack-only, don't forget that.

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 20:05

Yeah, I know :) My major weakness in this stack is nothing to stop mounted units who attack me. I wish I'd brought a couple of machine guns ... thought about it, but they're just too far behind; and the AI has done little or nothing to attack me. They'll probably attack with catapults now, and I realize my uberstack is just asking for it ... I'm assuming Cats in this era don't do much damage, as he has NO cannons, and I'm more worried about the knights hurting me than the cats, but I went ahead and moved half of my cavalry off of the stack just in case.

My total stack, btw, is:
10 cavalry
9 cannon
2 grenadiers (with a 3rd trailing behind)

There are a half-dozen cavalry and several grenadiers in Lahore also that will serve as my reinforcements if it turns out to be necessary, in addition to the reinforcements from the home front.

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 20:21

Hmm, they attacked with the three knights, losing all 3, and 2 riflemen, winning with both but down to 3.4 hp and 3.9 hp ... oddly enough, I only have 2 damaged cavalry, and 2 full ones, so I'm sort of confused, as i'm sure i only had 10 cavalry to begin with, and I seem to have lost 2, but only lost 1 ... :hmmm:

Anyway, they moved a second infantry in ... :eek: I'm sort of scared that I'm THIS far behind in tech (although ONLY asoka is that far ahead, and i'm pretty sure i can now dominate him, given i've taken nearly half his empire) ...

James

October 29, 2005, 20:24

I enjoying this alot.

snoopy369

October 29, 2005, 20:45

:) I'm enjoying doing it ... maybe i should more often ;)

Karachi is mine :) I love cannons, i shall have to build more ... 5 of them took city def down to 0, and 4 of them not only KILLED ONE OF THE TWO INFANTRY!!! and brought the other down to 3.4 or something (/20), but damaged every other unit there about 60% total (all cannons had the collateral damage +2 upgrades; i suppose i should have done some with + to city damage, but oh well). I didn't lose another unit on the attack, except losing a cavalry to the infantry that was outside of the city (and not collateral damaged, of course) sitting on the quarry.

Here's a screenie ... notice that the silly little indians have now brought a CATAPULT to reinforce their lone rifleman. Oh, I'm scared now ... :lol:

I shall try to make peace with them now, and if they won't, I'll go pillage their territory in the hope that they never recover :) (They won't make peace this turn, but I seriously hope the AI realizes it needs to make peace, since the #1 and #2 civs are currently 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through wiping them out ...

snoopy369

October 30, 2005, 03:02

Japan declares war on me again in 1852. Weird bug allows them to have a unit inside my territory before declaring war, and keep it there after declaration (I think my territory may have expanded around this unit during the india war).

So, I have to scramble to counteract this ... I didn't quite support Edo as much as I ought to have given it's position as easily-taken-city-by-Japan, but a quick change to Nationhood got me the musketeer it needs, along with its resident longbowman and a cavalry that came to save the day. I brought five over, four of which ended their movepoints outside the city, but one made it inside... all five attacked the invaders, and crushed several war elephants. :)

snoopy369

October 30, 2005, 03:05

On the other front, India is going well of course. 8 cannons, 6 grenadiers, and (now 6, will be 9 when the others heal) cavalry are on their way to Madras. I'm not sure if i'll just raze Madras or what, probably raze, as it's too far away to keep; but it'll be interesting in any event. I should win, it's not a very well defended city outside of its three infantry (which will be annoying, but my cannons should weaken them easily).

After Madras, I may go on a pillaging run ... haven't decided, and it probably depends on how it goes, but I think it should be enough to force peace with India on my terms. I'm going to make peace for at least one tech, and I'm going to make it stick... :)

snoopy369

October 30, 2005, 06:08

1864. No civil war, but a Japanese war, and an Indian pillagefest. I decided I'm done attacking Indian cities after Madras, which I help Alexander destroy (my cannons destroyed the defenses and did some serious damage to the infantry). I've pulled the 6 surviving cannons back to form the nucleus of my artillery in a few years, and am just having a grand old time pillaging Indian villages and towns :) Alexander is doing the same, as India doesn't seem interested in attacking our forces except with the occasional ... catapult :hmmm:

Anyway, I took the new Japanese city of Kagoshima, settled near where Osaka was razed not long ago. I decided to keep it, for some odd reason; haven't quite figured that one out, but I was thinking I believe that I would work out a way to get that marble still ... Lahore isn't pushing hard enough culturally yet for it. Next stop is Kyoto (Again...) with cavalry, I have maybe 10 in the area, which might be enough. If it's not (i'll take a look at the city next turn), I'll wait the seven or eight turns until the cannons appear ;)

snoopy369

October 31, 2005, 19:57

Dunno if anyone is still following this, given how long it's taking me, but here goes anyway :)

Japan ended with the fall of Kyoto to the romans (with my significant help), which was fine by me - too many cities at this stage ... They sued for peace, got it (no techs to give sadly).

India I held out for a long while with. I never took another city, though I did help to raze Madras. I basically pillaged and pillaged until I got bored and made peace for 4gpt and 20gp (all he had). Alexander is still going strong in that region, and post-Madras I have nothing to worry about from India (no common cultural border, at least on land) and Alexander is looking to be getting a bit strong militarily ... I only share a bit of border with him, Lahore/Kagoshima in the west, and it's not an area I care much about (though I like the marble); but I'd rather stay friendly with him, and I'd certainly rather him have a harder time killing India. Infantry are going to be hard for him to take no matter what ... though India has no production ability now due to the pillaging.

Addled Platypus

October 31, 2005, 23:34

eyes wide open

please continue

(2513 times viewed)

James

November 1, 2005, 00:21

:) Play more please.

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 01:45

hehe :b:

Okay, well I guess I'm doing okay in the culture department :cute: ... ye of little faith ... :shame:

My capital has nearly 40,000 culture, and will hit 50k around the point where i have 90 turns to go. The other two have 19,000 and 23,000 respectively (the 19,000 one has more C/Turn though). Under free speech and whatnot, the 19k one currently gets 200c/t, the 23k one gets ~120c/t. Not enough to win by culture - yet. But, it will be; I just recently discovered a very ... useful ... tech - medicine, or was it biology? I forget - that gives me +1 food for farmed squares - meaning i can put a lot of specialists in cities now :)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 01:58

Remember back ~50-60 posts ago when I was trying to convert Cumae, to get its stone and whatnot (eventually just taking the stone but failing with Cumae)?

Well, it finally converted :) I think I can thank Kufah, undercutting some vital Roman culture in the area. ;)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 02:01

:eek: ... I was able to trade a tech with the AI :D

First tech they've been willing to trade me (excepting Asok, who always listed them as willing but never accepted a peace deal with them) since ... um ... wow, a LONG time ago, maybe AD 500 or something. Certainly since Education, but I'm fairly sure it went much further back than that.

ChrisiusMaximus

November 1, 2005, 02:45

great write up Snoop been following it from the beginning :) please do continue :)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 03:17

:) Thanks CM + all ... I suck at storytelling, but I find this reporting fun :)

Well, more news on the culture front. I just hit the jackpot on culture-wonder-techs; right in a row I got techs for Broadway, Eiffel Tower, Rock+Roll, and Hollywood ... meaning I'm going to get a huge boost in those two cities that need it.

And, this past turn, I got ANOTHER Great Artist!! :) Adding it to the smaller culture of the two, I now have 2 cities @ 26k culture (and Mecca at 48k !!!). They're both near 200 a turn now, and with the +50% of each of their wonders respectively, plus the +50% of the Eiffel Tower's broadcast towers, plus whichever gets Hollywood (probably Satsuma), plus more cathedral type things (they each have FIVE religions in them ... I'm tempted to ask the Aztecs for a jewish missionary just so I can add that religion. I have Hinduism, Confucianism, Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam in both cities, and will eventually add Taoism once I remember which city has Taoism in it (actually it's damascus, which is all the way on one end of my empire, thus why I forgot about Taoism). That's 6 +50% bonuses, or 300% bonus, just from those :)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 03:29

Mecca achieves Legendary Culture in 1955, with 95 turns left. :)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 03:56

Aztecs declare war on me ... :lol:

Alexander cancels his def pact ( :hmmm: ), but then declares war on the Aztecs ... :hmmm:

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 04:46

Elizabeth has built the Apollo Project :eek: ... though I have to think it'll be a decent while until she's done, I have to consider the possibility that I either have to win a space-race, or take out some of her cities. :) Rocketry underway, and a few cities will begin a military buildup ...

Here's my part of the world, circa 1967 ... Nearly 30k culture in both of my secondary culture cities, and a great artist held in reserve (since i'm not sure which of them will be the faster city in the long run).

Addled Platypus

November 1, 2005, 04:49

wait till three civs gang up on you!

I have played through to complete games and have yet to see any aluminum?

you are blessed

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 05:02

Yeah, i've got plenty of aluminum ;)

I doubt I'll see 3 civs of any meaningful size gang up on me.

Of course, that's because there really aren't 3 civs of concern left ... Montezuma is across the sea and trying to use galleons to get past my battleships, Julius Caesar is lucky his capital doesn't flip to me, and Asoka got his rear handed to him by me and Alexander, and has less than half a dozen cities left.

Alex and Elizabeth, conveniently enough, are enemies ... :)

Anyway, I got ANOTHER great artist ... :) now have a 4k bomb in EACH city, waiting to be let off for the semi-sudden culture victory, with luck. I also had a power graph ... :lol: I'm highly amused that Montezuma is supposedly more powerful than me. Right ... ;)

gamadict

November 1, 2005, 05:08

Impressive cultural output. I just won my first game, a pathetic run-out-the-clock time victory. I was trying for culture, but could only get two cities over the Legendary mark, despite having about 2/3rds of the culture in the game :p

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 05:16

Hmm, apparently the Indians aren't doing too well monetarily :lol: ... and are asking me to war with Alexander? Are they nuts? :)

Gaining 300c/turn now in one of the two cities, which is more than enough to gain the 20k culture it's short. In fact, it's short closer to 15k taking the artist into account, meaning it's 50 turns (at current rates) from a win :D The third city will be at that rate shortly, once it finishes Holywood and is allowed to have more great artists. :)

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 05:51

It's bedtime, and I leave you with my ship-blockade of the Aztec forces. Undoubtedly someday they'll figure out how to put those weird metals together and make a larger Destroyer ... but until that day, they shall pretty much just ... die one frigate or galleon at a time :) Total losses to date for the Aztecs are 5 frigates and 4 loaded galleons (3 knights/cavalry on each!). :) (Plus the 2 galleons that landed their forces, at the start of the war ... all 6 forces destroyed, galleons also destroyed, just not by destroyers).

I'm going to win a culture victory, the question is how soon ... :)

Nikolai

November 1, 2005, 06:23

A culture victory, eh? I wish you luck against Apollo then.;)

Solver

November 1, 2005, 11:44

Wow, looks like your secondary cities might indeed manage to hit 50k. That's impressive! Then again, I wouldn't say that victory is assured for you at this point.

snoopy369

November 1, 2005, 14:15

I shall have to make sure Elizabeth is kept ... busy ... :)

Meanwhile, the Aztecs are playing nice once again, thanks to my shipping industry.

Louis XXIV

November 1, 2005, 15:42

Good luck getting a victory, its been interesting to follow so far :)

Simplicity

November 1, 2005, 17:44

Almost there... Almost there...

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 04:21

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
Good luck getting a victory, its been interesting to follow so far :)

Oh, luck shall have nothing to do with it :evil:

For example ... the 'surprise!' part of my attack on the English.

They will be backed up by the bombardment of battleships. I'm not sure if i'll take a city with this fleet or not, but I should have a decent shot at it, and at least i'll scare the #$%#$ out of Elizabeth enough to ensure she stops with that silly "space ship" she insists on building ...

Space :shame: ... we have much greater frontiers here, in the hearts and souls of men ... :)

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 04:27

On the other hand, this part of my attack will be more assuredly successful. :)

5 Bombers, 6 artys, 12 Modern Armors (with more coming) - roughly 2/3 Barrage 2 or 3, and 1/3 City Raider 2 or 3, 6 SAM Infantry (half guerilla 2 and half city defense 2), and 4 gunships (all combat I+pinch).

Elizabeth has about 3 SAM Infantry and 3 Mech Inf per city, with a couple of artillery scattered about, and a few redcoats. Easy pickings :shame: (Of course, i'm going to need a few more modern armors and whatnot, but they're being produced en masse, and notice my gold % ... I can BUY about 4 new modern armors a turn. :) )

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 05:14

First turn went so-so. I took out tokyo (1 turn away from SS thrusters #2 ...) fine, no losses; but failed to get anything to London that turn, because they had a super-destroyer blocking the port (32 -> 18 -> 2.5 -> 0, and the 18->2.5 was with a BATTLESHIP ... 2x1 odds, and I lose ... :( )

On the AI turn, it did surprisingly little ... killed a worker w/a mechinf, oops, killed an armor w/a mechinf (?), killed an artillery w/a mechinf. Very odd, they basically emptied Hastings for me. Polite, I guess ... so Hastings should fall with no problem, and these pesky mechinfs can be taken out one by one. Sadly Barrage won't come in handy - perhaps the AI tactic - but with only 3 defending units in the city, who the F cares?

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 05:44

Hmm, wonder what's missing from this picture ... :evil:

(For a clue, look at the image's name ... ;) )

It was surprisingly easy, in fact - only 4 Mech Infs and 1 SAM infantry, and I only lost 2 (!) of my Marines. I was really expecting to only *maybe* take the city at all ... AI did a poor job of building experienced units with the right promotions here, IMO.

Oh, and Hastings fell easily as well ... meaning the English are down to 4 (!) cities. No spaceship for them. Alex did build the Apollo program a few years back, but he's not a concern, due to the fact that he doesn't have nearly the tech that Elizabeth has. I'm shocked he even figured out how to build a moon-rocket ... :lol:

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 05:45

Oops, forgot the pic ...

Nikolai

November 2, 2005, 05:57

Crush them...:evil: In the name of cultural imperialism, God and Fatherland, and not to forget: Democracy!:D

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 06:10

We know not of this "Democracy" you speak. Yes, we have Universal suffrage; indeed, everyone has the power to vote for their Properly Devout representative. :) Free speech? Yep, got that too ... speak every word that may come out of your mouth, so long as Vishna is in your heart. Emancipation? Surely you do not believe we would hold slaves; no, indeed those who labor, do so for the betterment of their souls. Free Market? Ye, you may sell the bounty that the Gods have granted you, and may no man, but Vishnu, place a tax on it.

But Democracy? Shame on you! Theocracy, for our beliefs and our sacrifices shall lead us to attaining liberation!

Nikolai

November 2, 2005, 06:17

But that is a democracy o holy one! A democracy don't have to be secular you see.;)

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 06:17

England is in ruins; 3 of its great cities are fallen, in addition to one small city that was founded this past turn (Crazy englishmen ...), and their Capital, London, is no more. Hastings has but two more turns to live; and they have no appreciable defenses left in any city.

I'm not impressed at all by the AI's ability to wage war, strategically. Perhaps this is an artifact of the low level I'm playing on; but typically level only limits the available resources, from what I know of previous civs, and this Elizabeth had a reasonable military (true, she seemed not to have any armors, but she had plenty of mech infs, bombers, gunships, etc. ... and didn't use them effectively at all, choosing to leave cities with mech infs that might have been much better off inside those cities, and choosing to attack worthless targets (workers several squares inside my territory?) and leave those mechinfs open to easy picking off ... not to mention not using the airships available to her (gunships, bombers) to any effect at all. Asoka didn't do much either, and Elizabeth really has been WAY too passive with these units. Not even 'passive' per se, she's done some offensive maneuvers, but ... poor ones, poorly chosen maneuvers.

snoopy369

November 2, 2005, 06:18

Originally posted by Nikolai
But that is a democracy o holy one! A democracy don't have to be secular you see.;)

Democracy implies the rule of the Demos, the 'people' so to speak. We believe in the rule of the Theos (or whatever), the Gods. :)

MortVader

November 2, 2005, 11:10

Originally posted by snoopy369
..
Rome a few turns before also got a Hindu Missionary sent to them, to try and convert one of their cities; it succeeds, and a few turns later Rome converts to Hinduism :b: Probably saves me from a war with them, they were getting annoyed at our proximity. I love the fact that "our close borders cause tension" is a major reason for AI aggression ... it makes a lot of sense :)

Can missionaries cross closed borders?