Eve of Distinction

[Rubychaser]

Can it be done they ask? Is it for real? So many sceptics!

Can we turn the EoD Game

from "Eve of Destruction"

to "Eve of Distinction"?

Great Lords of all Nations, let our Councils meet for a United Council of the Planet.





The meeting should be chaired by either one of the Game Administrators, OPD or MWIA, or One of Mods, MarkG or Ming.

The meeting should have a clear agreed agenda, along with some very clear ground rules. Just as in any ordered meeting. These could be discussed in the following posts, or in a chat with a representative from each nation.

At the conclusion of said meeting, let the minutes be posted in a public thread. Let their be no misunderstandings, as we come from different lands, and very different ways.

[Shogun Gunner]

I don't understand your post. Do you mean "Eve of Extinction"? What's the objective of this meeting?

I really don't understand.

[Rubychaser]

The meaning is peace.

[Shogun Gunner]

:confused: Peace in the game or peace between Apolyton members?

[conmcb25]

Peace?

Why now?, you have already said no several times.

Dont waste our time, when you have a reasonable peace proposal let us know.

Its as simple as that :)

[Rubychaser]

Both.

[Rubychaser]

Originally posted by conmcb25
Peace?

Why now?, you have already said no several times.

Dont waste our time, when you have a reasonable peace proposal let us know.

Its as simple as that :)

I have started this thread at the request of Pad. He has spoken of this subject with Beta, Krill and Lord Nuclear. If you speak for your team, then we have your answer. If not can we hear from your team?

[Paddy]

Hello all.

I asked Ruby to open this thread for several reasons. Mainly as I have discussed all team captains the issues of peace. In this the idea grew for a meeting of all players.

So this is the official invite and discussion thread...

No anger, no malice. Just an invite to a meet, and hopefully peace will reign.

[Daddy-O]

@rubychaser
I am sure that Beta will have the final word for Babylon.

@PTS
Please clarify for one and all here. What is this about? Peace in-game or continued peace here at Apolyton in general? Speak clearly knowing that this is a big world that shares one language. I for one am rooting for peace among Apolytoners.

[Paddy]

The chat would sort it out.

This is an invite.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

What a capital idea what ho :)

[Beta]

Ruby - that picture looks remarkably similar to the only tract of land immediately available for Babylonian expansion, should peace prevail. :)

The Lords of Babylon willl consult with Inanna and let you know shortly.

[Grandpa Troll]

I love Peace

However Peace to one is not peace to another (Middle East for instance in real world)

I believe what we have is a chance to air laundry and be civil and move forward, this isnt my thread or my objectives , however I was invited so Ill post my thoughts.

I sometimes forget myself that this is a website filled with folks of differing nationalities,beliefs,morals and scrupals.

It has differering education levels and differening vocational fields.

We have people with a sense of humor and those without..

We have some easily offended and some tempermental as all get out...

I have seen here where gameplay or so called "role-play" on both user and usee get out of hand

These are games we play folks and often I, Grandpa Troll, am the chiefest of sinners, in offending people.

It is never the intent to make pain or hurt or tear down someone albeit I am an accomplished artist at this

I chose to talk when I should listen..

I unload double barrels from my breach loading emotiongun when I am deadnuts wrong

I would say I may be in the minority but still quite possibly should ease up when pushing issues

What sayeth in this manner to your own soul?

Its easy, walk up to a mirror where your alone and ask sincerely if what you said or did was necessary or relevant to good game play?

To relationship building?

I love Apolyton and honestly seek friendships as far as they can be defined in an online relationship that we develope...with each other

Could we perhaps take the Cossack we rode in on, the sheath our broadsword came in on, dismount and lay the sword upon the ground, then walk up to someone here, speak as thou wish spoken to and move forward?

not bring..no hold the presses, yes bring the hurt emotions, the offended souls, the twinges of anger and resentment, we will have a bonfire, burn them and see what remains?

If there is anything of substance left, then we cast it into a lake, with a brimstone attached, let it go..please folks is that so hard?

Then walk up to the one that your issues was with, introduce yourself, tell them a little about yourself and then hush..allow the other person likewise time to share something about themselves and then shake hands, and part ways, when you meet the next person repeat but then tell them of the distinguished person and what glorioustraits they possess.., maybe maybe this will bring peace instead of spreading vile self centered and unspeakable backbiting meant to tear down

Ok

I offer this as a bit of peace..try it or dont, I only share from one who has been through pain and should not continue being a horsie's patute..

:unworthy:

[OPD]

Wispers in the shadows
The Khan grows old
Some say he grows wise
Others... he grows mad
Some say he has no fight left in him, having left it all on the field of battle

Let the heads of all nations gather
Let all see what is brought to the table
What legacy shall be left
opd will scribe for the records
For soon the future will be revealled

[Paddy]

:lol: It is not my old age you should worry about, it's the ride.

[Grandpa Troll]

thanks fer the addition to collection paddy

[Daddy-O]

If this is to be a discussion how we go forward a community here at Apolyton, let me say that I am in favor of all of us getting along. Heck, this is just a game. I am involved in other games, chats, and threads here with many who are enemies in this game. I hope that after EoD these good experiances continue. That said, I think this game is poisoned and many times no longer has anything to do with fun. I am sure that I have my share of the blame in this as well. I am truly sorry if I have offended.

If this is to be a discussion about peace within EoD, I believe Beta is Babylon's leader and his word is bond. We will see if this world's powers can be trusted. Up until now there is no reason for trust.

[PLATO]

Peace be with you all.

[Tassadar500]

The Lost Boy will come. :)

[ormuzd]

I'll try to come as well. :b: for the idea

[Paddy]

Three in, One to decide.

[James]

As the Administrator of the Red Guard I have completed an assignment on the current production capacity of the all nations.

My numbers show that if all three other nations were to join together this day in a full alliance against the Horde, then they just may be capable of meeting our unit production. This does not mean they can catch up in that production to the size of the Red Guard.

Next it would take another joint allaince in the taking down of the Red Guard and invading the Mongol Horde Lands.

Are these teams up to this great alliance against the Horde?

[Beta]

Originally posted by James the Scot
As the Administrator of the Red Guard I have completed an assignment on the current production capacity of the all nations.

My numbers show that if all three other nations were to join together this day in a full alliance against the Horde, then they just may be capable of meeting our unit production. This does not mean they can catch up in that production to the size of the Red Guard.

Next it would take another joint allaince in the taking down of the Red Guard and invading the Mongol Horde Lands.

Are these teams up to this great alliance against the Horde?

I could use a capable assistant. Care to become a Babylonian. ;)

[Beta]

Goddess Inanna has spoken, and Babylon will be present at the world conference.

We would request that each team be limited to one or two representatives at said conference.

[James]

No thanks.


Edit, this was in reference to joining Babylon.

[James]

Originally posted by Beta
Goddess Inanna has spoken, and Babylon will be present at the world conference.

We would request that each team be limited to one or two representatives at said conference.

Lord Beta, I count 45 members in these 4 teams. Only 2 from your 17?

What does Babylon hope to gain from meet?

[conmcb25]

James, two should be more than enought to speak for each team, its not an issue of who should or shouldn't be there, its more of an issue when you get more than 6 or 8 people in a chat, you can;t get anything done, just like a metting at work, anything more than about 6 people and or it lasts more than 30 minutes is usually unproductive and a waste of time.

Just basic management 101 ;)

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by James the Scot
As the Administrator of the Red Guard I have completed an assignment on the current production capacity of the all nations.

My numbers show that if all three other nations were to join together this day in a full alliance against the Horde, then they just may be capable of meeting our unit production. This does not mean they can catch up in that production to the size of the Red Guard.


Out of curiousity, did you included the shields represented by 2 free units every five turns as part of this comparison? What percent of the total would these represent? Too tiny to worry about or maybe ~5%ish?

If you feel like answering, I would be interested.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by James the Scot


Lord Beta, I count 45 members in these 4 teams. Only 2 from your 17?

What does Babylon hope to gain from meet?

I found this interesting as well. I'm still a bit perplexed to the purpose and objectives of this meeting. So, usually the individual(s) calling a meeting would detail what is hoped to be gained. However, doing stakeholder outreach is perfectly acceptable ;)

I have full faith in Beta. He can represent the group of us just fine.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by James the Scot
As the Administrator of the Red Guard I have completed an assignment on the current production capacity of the all nations.

My numbers show that if all three other nations were to join together this day in a full alliance against the Horde, then they just may be capable of meeting our unit production. This does not mean they can catch up in that production to the size of the Red Guard.

Next it would take another joint allaince in the taking down of the Red Guard and invading the Mongol Horde Lands.

Are these teams up to this great alliance against the Horde?

How is that accurate when two of these supposed "allies" have much more production than you?

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner


I found this interesting as well. I'm still a bit perplexed to the purpose and objectives of this meeting. So, usually the individual(s) calling a meeting would detail what is hoped to be gained. However, doing stakeholder outreach is perfectly acceptable ;)

I have full faith in Beta. He can represent the group of us just fine.

I echo the sentiments of Shogun Gunner that he has stated here. What would be the agenda and purpose of the chat if all the people involved in the game met?

We all have our perceived wrongs and wrongs that we have dealt out themselves. Hopefully we are individually attempting to move beyond that even now. I know I p'd people off and I am truly sorry that I did so. As I said in our private forum, if Ming had put me into the penalty box I would have been unhappy but I would have understood. I presume that most of us feel that way at this point.

I'm just not certain that I understand whether you hope for a meeting to reconcile this and whether it is possible to do it without reawakening some of our poorer moments.

I am open to hearing some more details about how Paddy/the Horde would propose to move forward in the format of such an all-inclusive meeting.

Barring that, all of us in Babylon have voiced our trust in Beta representing us in a smaller and more controlled meeting.

I don't think that we have suggested a second candidate yet. I would be happy to participate if requested as would most of our team.

In the meantime, I have posted four new chapters in the Chronicles as a sort of apology and peace offering.

GB

[James]

This was not a Horde gathering, but an invite for all nations to gather. Peace would have been the main point. From what I read, and the numbers crunched, I not sure why we would all bother with a long peace. Our two wonders will cause far more damage at the end of a long peace. The Keshiks and Armies add to the flavouring.

The game was to be the last team democracy game for Civ III. Good timing to push on then, as Civ IV arrives. Is this idea of a meet all too late in the game? Let the war on the Horde begin. Smoke us out of our mountains, if you can. :) Fight us where you find us.

[Daddy-O]

from Golden Bear:
I don't think that we have suggested a second candidate yet. I would be happy to participate if requested as would most of our team.


Oh anybody but him!!!!!!!!!!

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by Daddy-O

Oh anybody but him!!!!!!!!!!

This from the name-changer that dragged me into Team Babble-on.:)

James, thanks for the clarification. We, well I, at least, thought that this was to be a "peace" meeting for the purpose of us all forgiving and forgetting and moving to the future.

Apparently the intent actually is to get together to discuss an in-game peace.

Both are good objectives. If I am incorrect with what I understand, you can go ahead and straighten me out.

BTW, you are one of the people who I feel worst about my dealings with. I want to make this apology, publicly, for ill treatment that I dealt you. No excuse or explanation is sufficient to justify my behavior. I hope that you will accept it.

GB

[Beta]

Originally posted by James the Scot
This was not a Horde gathering, but an invite for all nations to gather. Peace would have been the main point. From what I read, and the numbers crunched, I not sure why we would all bother with a long peace. Our two wonders will cause far more damage at the end of a long peace. The Keshiks and Armies add to the flavouring.

The game was to be the last team democracy game for Civ III. Good timing to push on then, as Civ IV arrives. Is this idea of a meet all too late in the game? Let the war on the Horde begin. Smoke us out of our mountains, if you can. :) Fight us where you find us.

James - understood. I was trying to clarify the number of folks who would be there - simply for the reasons con mentioned. More than one or two speaking per team and it will not be productive.

I understood the meeting to be regarding peace - from two perspectives. Smooth over some of the rough times we have experienced out of game, and to see if an in-game peace proposal may work to "re-energize" the current game situation.

I don't argue that you stand to gain the most from a long peace - given the two wonders and the room you have to expand into. That being said, it is still worth the discussion IMHO.

So no, I don't think it is too late in the game. I am up for seeing what we can do to spruce up both the in-game and out-of-game dynamics to hopefully improve the legacy of this game.

[James]

Golden Bear,
I accept your apology. I hold no issue with you.

Beta,
you have greater experience here than I, that is true. Your patience in dealing with my youth is kind. Personally I would have liked many voices at such an event. We hold these group chats within the various classes of my Uni, 15 - 25 people, involved. With a strong chairman to keep the chat on track, and a secretary able to provide current summaries as we go, it works fine. This is not my Uni, so I will go wuth the flow.

[OPD]

Originally posted by Beta
So no, I don't think it is too late in the game. I am up for seeing what we can do to spruce up both the in-game and out-of-game dynamics to hopefully improve the legacy of this game.

here here,

I think I might know what the horde will say, perhaps a time this weekend would be suitable, so as to let the dust settle on the CIV release and possibly give people a different perspective on this game.

[Daddy-O]

Well. Maybe if 1 or 2 from each nation show up and others are allowed to join to observe the proceedings.

The biggest problem that I see is the world wide community and agreeing on a time. much easier to do with 4 - 8 people than all of us.

@GB
you know I kid.

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by Daddy-O

@GB
you know I kid.

...and you know I have nooo sense of humor (humour for the rest of you) at all. Nope, none.

[Aqualung71]

Oh, the irony of the timing of this Horde suggestion is just delicious :lol: :lol: :shame:

Ok, I'll shutup now :hmmm:

[Daddy-O]

No no. Don't shut up.

I think that if this is to be a meeting to cover in-game peace as well as general Apolyton peace, members of DR and Euphorica should be invited as well.

[Shogun Gunner]

nm

[Beta]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
nm

Numidian Mercenary???

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Beta


Numidian Mercenary???

technically correct that nm would have to mean that.

In my context, it meant -- never mind.

So, nm :D

[Beta]

Neanderthal Meanderings?? Oh, nm. :cute:

[conmcb25]

When is this so called summit supposed to occur, or has it?

[Daddy-O]

The last few posts would show that Babylon is the only nation honestly interested in peace for our tiny world.

This is typical of the Horde. Make a public offer for peace only to back away. I am sure this summit would be more like, "OK how does Babylon want to surrender to the Blood Oath Horde? We HORDE! Ugh!" I think the Horde is afraid of being defeated by our mighty warriors as the Morporkians were.


:D

If there are still out-of-game hurt feelings and misunderstandings, I do think it would be good to discuss this.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Paddy is very busy at this time working away a lot, he has said in our forum this is going to happen soon , or as soon as he can speak to you all.

[Daddy-O]

Thanks for the update. We'll keep our eyes open.

[Paddy]

Really - Babylon only nation who wants peace is it? hehe

Well you will not I have ordered the Grey Wolves to leave you and your troops in the region of the former town of Kurra alone.

The talks should start this coming weekend. Timing is the issue, afterall we are scattered all over the globe.

I am available at different hours, work is a demanding boss sometimes :( opps - well I got to do some sometime. :D

The Horde stands ready to attend. If not I then two of our Council will be there.

Lets start to decide a timeframe then.

When in GMT shall we do this?

[Daddy-O]

It is obvous that you fear our sharpened sticks.

Beta will represent Babylon. He should comment on the time.

[Paddy]

hehe - your bowmen have always been a concern, that be true. :D

[Beta]

Paddy - your orders were noted. :)

And I am available for the Peace Conefernce this weekend. I have one period late morning/noon here on saturday that I can't - but the rest is good. (That would be - let me see - anytime but 1500gmt -1730gmt.

Paddy - interesting new avatar. But what is ROH? Rarely on horses? :D

[Daddy-O]

Really Old Hags

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Beta


Paddy - interesting new avatar. But what is ROH? Rarely on horses? :D

it is not roh

but B O H Blood Oath Horde

[James]

My maths and yours are different then. I do mine on the bar mat at the Uni Pub. Where do you do yours?

[Beta]

Nice try GT. But it is ROH. Rusty On Honour? And what is the football for? Or maybe it is a polo ball, given that you folks like horses.

James - I am gmt-5. Does this help?

[James]

Originally posted by Beta
Paddy - your orders were noted. :)

And I am available for the Peace Conefernce this weekend. I have one period late morning/noon here on saturday that I can't - but the rest is good. (That would be - let me see - anytime but 1500gmt -1730gmt.

Paddy - interesting new avatar. But what is ROH? Rarely on horses? :D

As stated elsewhere, the Khan is away with real life. The Horde will have two people available for this meet.

Shall we start to organise our agenda items?

We have only one at this time: Length of world peace.

[Daddy-O]

I see

R :volleyball: H

Anyone else?

[Beta]

Originally posted by James the Scot

Shall we start to organise our agenda items?



1. Length of world peace (BOH)
2. Enforcement of peace (Babylon)
3. .....

[James]

Originally posted by Daddy-O
I see

R :volleyball: H

Anyone else?

I see a :ana: memeber ;)

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Beta


1. Length of world peace (BOH)
2. Enforcement of peace (Babylon)
3. .....

An excellent start Lord Beta. Do you think it would be appropriate to begin with talks of a general understanding that we all began as friends or friendly acquaintences and, I hope, would all like to leave the game as friends?

[Daddy-O]

An excellent start Lord Beta. Do you think it would be appropriate to begin with talks of a general understanding that we all began as friends or friendly acquaintences and, I hope, would all like to leave the game as friends?


That would be the most important thing as far as I am concerned.

[OPD]

So the Horde do seek peace......

Do you think it would be appropriate to begin with talks of a general understanding that we all began as friends or friendly acquaintences and, I hope, would all like to leave the game as friends?

:b:

If the Horde would like to suggest a time for this summit

I'm on msn, you can see my handle above, I'll assume you mostly know each others msn's so as to give each other a heads up, if I'm not around then.... play nice.....

[ormuzd]

may we do it Sunday some time? I have no plans for tomorrow and today I'll be not available the entire day. I have only 1-2 hours to check poly and play the save and I'm leaving again.

Additionally Krill is not here. This way there is noone to represent Ankh-Morpork.

[James]

Sunday GMT works for us. All teams to be represented, and OPD must be available.

[Beta]

Originally posted by PLATO


An excellent start Lord Beta. Do you think it would be appropriate to begin with talks of a general understanding that we all began as friends or friendly acquaintences and, I hope, would all like to leave the game as friends?

Agreed. That would be an appropriate first topic, as Daddy-O has already indicated. :b:

As to time, yes - any time on sunday betweem 0700 edt and 2000 edt works for me (1200gmt - 0100gmt)

Ormuzd needs to be there.

[James]

I have just finished a chat with my Lord Khan.

we see our goal as peace

in this we are asking for an agreed time of peace
we are not asking for anything else, nor giving anything else to any other nation
this time is to allow all teams to have a time of rest and regrowth

The Horde will not attack unless attacked.

attacked means:
. a unit from another team attacks one of ours
. the team captain of another team personally abuses our team captain (We considered this at length, and consider such actions an act of war - when one leader does such to another)
. there may be another 1 - 2 ways war could start, looking at that now


peace should be for an agreed time. we suggest 10 - 20 turns. let all grow. we are open to a longer period.

it could be that we have a 10 turn peace, then meet again to see if we can work on a longer period.

[Beta]

Still wondering about the sheduling of the conference. ???

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Beta
Still wondering about the sheduling of the conference. ???

Sometime Sunday? Any suggestions on time?

[ormuzd]

Last night we have returned to the standard time (I hate this change of time twice each year; however this is the better change :) )

I suggest 21:00 GMT. This is 16:00 GMT EST and maybe 7:00 am in east Australia. In the moment I post this is 6:15 am GMT

[OPD]

Poly time has not gone back yet I guess.

The time now is 09:35GMT

I'll be on from 16:00GMT onwards, or in about 6 hrs 25 mins from now onwards, until about 23:00gmt

[James]

Looks like we getting a time sorted.

[Golden Bear]

If I read this correctly, this would be 13:00 out here in the Pacific Northwest...

Where are we meeting? I didn't catch that.

[James]

MSN Messenger.

[Beta]

1600 EST (2100GMT) works for me, as does MSN messenger (Beta4000@hotmail.com).

See you there. Peace.

[James]

That is approx 5 hours from now then?

[OPD]

Approx 6 hours from now.

OT- does anyone know if clocks go back and forward in China?

[Rubychaser]

China? :hmmm:

Has anyone heard from AM or LB lately?

[Golden Bear]

James, et al, can you post some explicit instructions for how to do this in MSN? I only got registered on it about 3 days ago, so it is all Greek to me.

Thanks.

[Rubychaser]

Originally posted by Golden Bear
James, et al, can you post some explicit instructions for how to do this in MSN? I only got registered on it about 3 days ago, so it is all Greek to me.

Thanks.

It is a very easy process.

Two known members from different teams open a window for a chat. They then each invite others in. This continues untill all members that want to be there are in.

The chat then takes place.

[ormuzd]

so, I'm at MSN already. My MSN address is todor_georgiev@hotmail.com

I might not answer immidiately but be assured I'll see your post sooner or later

[Rubychaser]

Still no word from AM or LB then?

[Paddy]

Now we just await Quebec.

[OPD]

Ormuz is AM,

IRC might also be an option if need be.

I'll be in the poly chat.... not talking about civ 4....... :(

[Paddy]

We all members of msn, not sure if all members of IRC.

And the Lost Boy is here as well on MSN.

[Rubychaser]

OPD, my error in the post. Was chatting while Ormuzd posted, then posted my words. :) So we can start soon then?

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by OPD
Approx 6 hours from now.

OT- does anyone know if clocks go back and forward in China?

No, there is no time change. China is under one timezone believe it or not.

[PLATO]

Standing ready at Msn

[Paddy]

Regardless of all the hype and any negative thoughts, the people of this world have now moved on from destruction to peace. Let these coming 25 turns be a time of fresh growth for all.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
Regardless of all the hype and any negative thoughts, the people of this world have now moved on from destruction to peace. Let these coming 25 turns be a time of fresh growth for all.

Thanks Paddy

I have to tell ya

Love your sig line.. ground to australia?..lol

[Golden Bear]

-

[ormuzd]

hehehe, what a beautiful description...

It reminds of the game between the gods in the Discworld - being good friends but playing war between each other

[James]

edit: removed as requested by my Lord Khan.

[Paddy]

Thank you James.

[Golden Bear]

-

[James]

-

[Shogun Gunner]

I don't believe Golden Bear's intent is to show disrespect. He enjoys writing and attempts to incorporate humor into his stories. I get a kick out of reading his stories.

My understanding of his disclaimer is that he will remove material that he did not anticipate causing problems. As discussed previously, so many different people on this forum, it is difficult to anticipate every single person's concern.

[Golden Bear]

-

[Golden Bear]

-.

[James]

Golden Bear, my intent was not for you to leave. My intent was to say I not like your style of humour all the time.

Please accept my apologises for being harsh in my post.

[Golden Bear]

James, your apology is accepted by me.

Thanks.

[Ljube]

Eve of Destruction is replaced by Age of Peace and Prosperity. Eve of Distinction indeed!


Golden Bear, repost your chronicles please. :cool:

[Golden Bear]

Done - at least with the most recent.

There are more hidden in the Babylon forum where I cannot get at them without readmittance - which is coming.

I'm back.:cool:

[Beta]

Originally posted by Golden Bear

I'm back.:cool:

:love:

[Shogun Gunner]

Golden Bear was readmitted retroactively to the minute he left. :b:

[Paddy]

Good to hear.