World War I in Europe - tracker

[Modo44]

Here we go, gentlemen, let the fun begin. If you care, the sign up thread is here (link) (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133921).

The scenario requires a download of approximately 14 MB, which can be found on this site (link) (http://mapage.noos.fr/gogf/july1914.htm), and needs to be decompressed into the Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios folder. It has some new units, mainly for flavour (slightly different planes, tanks, etc.—similar to the flavour units in the Napoleonic Conquest). Some countries are missing, and some have more territory incorporated due to the MP limit of 8 players.

Civs, players, and playing order: Germany (Modo)
Russia (Trollius IV)
France (Masuro)
Britain (Beta)
Spain (Paddy)
Ottomen (Jon)
Austria-Hungary (Shogun Gunner)
Serbia-Romania-Greece (Ljube)No forced alliances, no forced wars. The only victory conditions are Domination and Conquest.

No Settlers can be built, so no razing cities, please. :nono:

If you are not sure if your predecessor has your e-mail, please PM it to him.

[Ljube]

Why don't you make the AI Sid?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
Why don't you make the AI Sid?
If all of you feel up to it, sure. I hope you did play scenarios against a Sid AI...

[joncnunn]

Since there's apprently one AI on each side; [at least I hope that Austria-Hungary AI won't break the Central Powers alliance :scared: ] I do think the AI should be Demigod+.

And why can't we have humans playing France & Austria-Hungary?

[joncnunn]

Ljube, I don't think I have your email.

Paddy knows mine.

[joncnunn]

Modo, I propose a slight change on your turn 1 rule:

I propose that we be able to sign a straight MPP / MA / RoP on turn 1 with the AI; just no getting cash / cities :nono: / luxaries / etc. from it.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Since there's apprently one AI on each side; [at least I hope that Austria-Hungary AI won't break the Central Powers alliance :scared: ] I do think the AI should be Demigod+.
Except I did not force alliances/wars. Should I? Remember the numbers the AI gets for free are rather enormous, and there is no guarantee they would fight each other instead of humans. This could become silly as we would be stuck defending for a big part of the war. I mean all of us...

Originally posted by joncnunn
And why can't we have humans playing France & Austria-Hungary?
Because 6 is good enough for speed. 8 human players would make for a very slow game, and I prefer a faster pace.

Oh, and the tech cost is ridiculous at Sid. We would be stuck at the starting technology throughout the war...

And, as happened in other games, you should post your ideas before the game is started. All of this should be in the sign up threat. Darn you. ;)

[joncnunn]

Considering trying to keep the AI historic while providing flexibility to humans:

I think France and Austria-Hungary should be locked against each other.

And Austria-Hungary should also be locked against Serbia. Austria-Hungary's primary goal [which they succeeded in] for the Great War was the annexation of Serbia.

Modo, I was not expecting to find this game already started this morning.

[Modo44]

The problem is, a Sid AI coming at you right from the start means no chance whatsoever. And I have no way to determing if Austria-Hungary will go after France first. I would even suspect it does not, as France (being another Sid AI) would have the much stronger defenses...

Leaving Austria-Hungary locked against France seems doable, though. :b:

By the way, Grandpa Troll, if you are reading this—wait with the save. You will get another one, it seems. :lol:

[joncnunn]

This a scenario, on turn 1 it makes no difference what the AI difficulty level is. All their units are already in place, there's no additional bonus units. It's as time goes on that the reduced AI prices take affect. Sid would probably amount to something like the AI has accel on and humans don't.

[joncnunn]

Under my locked wars rule, I suspect that Austrian Hungary will go after Serbia on turn 1. They probably won't stop doing this until Serbia is dead, since Serbia probably has the weakest army off our civs. (But this IS historic)

The French AI on turn 1 will probably go after Austria-Hungary unless the Germans declare war on them first, in which case the French AI will be after the weakest town between Germany and Austria-Hungary. If Spain ever declares war on France, the French AI will go after them instead. The Ottoman Empire is also something the French AI would like to go after if these powers become at war.

(Now the idea of France trying to actually attack someone in WWI other than the Germans is very non-historic, but I can't think of a way to completely solve this short of having a human play France)

[joncnunn]

Modo, I have another idea, I don't think we were aware of the intention of having 2 AIs.

Change the two AIs to Spain and Serbia. And have Paddy and Ljube flip a coin to see who gets France and who gets Austria-Hungary.

In that case, the only thing important for the AI is lock Serbia into an alliance with Russia.

And a human rule of no trying to make peace with Russia via Serbia. :nono:

[Modo44]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Under my locked wars rule, I suspect that Austrian Hungary will go after Serbia on turn 1. They probably won't stop doing this until Serbia is dead, since Serbia probably has the weakest army off our civs. (But this IS historic)
Worry not, we can live without. Like we can live without unified Italy or any Scandinavian civs. This wil happen only if Ljube agrees to start in such a bad position.

[Ljube]

Serbia beat Austria in two great battles in 1914. It wasn't until late 1915 when Germany intervened on Austria's behalf and Bulgaria and Turkey joined on Austria's side that Serbia got on the run. Even then, it took good four months for them to subdue Serbia and her army was largely intact, retreated to Greece, reformed, joined the Brits who fought at Gallipoli, and when the French arrived, staged a counter-attack near the end of 1916. From then on, the front was peaceful with most of Serbian territory occupied by Austria until September 1918 when Serbia-Britain-France achieved a breakthrough and Austria-Bulgarian positions on the Thessalonica front collapsed. Bulgaria capitulated 2 days later, while Austria fought for another month and Hungary kept fighting 3 weeks more.


During the WWI, Serbia was the most militaristic country in Europe having under arms most of its male population.

[Modo44]

Sooo, do I include the forced war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia, or not? Be precise, this time. :)

Any other suggestions?

I would like to start the game today, because I will be gone tomorrow.

[Ljube]

LOL, I don't like anyone forcing me to do anything. ;)

I'd like the freedom to choose if I may please. :)


Who knows, maybe I end up allied with Austria. ;)

[Modo44]

Maybe you will. But I would not count on it, as a Sid AI is extremely expensive to bribe into anything.

And Jon, no trading anything to AI on the first turn. :nono:

Game will be up (again ;)) in about two hours.

[joncnunn]

I'm pretty sure that Ottoman Empire was a charter member of the Central Powers and did, in name, join the war right away.

Authough they might not have been ready for the war and therefore slow to actually attack anyone. In addition, Greece was a higher priority for the Ottoman Empire since the agreements with Austria-Hungary were that Serbia goes to Austrian-Hungary and Greece goes to the Ottoman Empire.

Austria-Hungary were the same empire until the treaty of Verdue broke them up.

It's also pretty clear that even if the Central Powers have won, they'd have had trouble holding down the subject populations in the balkins. (The German empire wouldn't have that problem directly because they'd have created a Poland as a puppet state themselves, [only their version wouldn't have included those portions of Poland that were taken from Germany and Austria-Hungary.] Athough I can imagine that the Austria-Hungarian empire might have very well called in the Germans to help hold down the Serbians, with the Ottomans turks making the same demand on the Germans to help hold down the Greeks.)

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
LOL, I don't like anyone forcing me to do anything. ;)

I'd like the freedom to choose if I may please. :)

Who knows, maybe I end up allied with Austria. ;)

Historically, the Austrian empire would only have accepted peace on turn 1 if they'd been allowed to occupy the country.

[joncnunn]

Yes, we need that historic triggering event to get the war started.

Originally posted by Modo44
Sooo, do I include the forced war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia, or not? Be precise, this time. :)

[Modo44]

Jon, let me remind you:
Originally posted by Modo44
This wil happen only if Ljube agrees to start in such a bad position.
Ljube said not to include the forced war. End of story.


Sorry, but Civ3 is very bad when you are trying to be historically accurate. WW II could be a bit closer to real life, but that scenario is still lacking. It turns out this one is a historical mess, too. Either you accept it and play what you get, or... Well, I started the game, so I have the final word, so there is no other option, really.

If you want better historical accurancy, go ahead and change the scenario, and then start a game based on your modifications (The Mustard Gas unit needs to have its Civilopedia entry changed, or the scenario will not load.) I will gladly join it as a different nation. :)

[Ljube]

Well, I'm from Serbia and I know what I'm talking about. ;)


In August 1914 Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia and lost a battle on Cer Mountain in western Serbia. Overconfident Austrians deployed their forces in the narrow valley and exposed to artillery bombardment from Serbian batteries positioned on higher ground. This caused panic among Austrian recruits and they started to run back home. Serbian reserves then started to chase them and Serbia even occupied several Bosnian cities (Visegrad, Sarajevo).

Still, this was but a minor setback for Austria as the forces assigned to the operation were relatively small in numbers compared to what Austria had at her disposal. In November same year Austria-Hungary launched a new offensive against Serbia, this time with overwhelming numbers. They advanced deep into Serbia, captured Belgrade and it seemed as if Serbian army was totally defeated. However, on 3 December 1914 Serbian army launched a counter-offensive along the river Kolubara (hence the name of the battle: Battle of Kolubara), achieved a breakthrough and liberated Serbian cities of Valjevo and Sabac in the western Serbia. Facing encirclement the Austrians retreated. This was the biggest victory of the Serbian army in WWI.



Turkey entered war in late October 1914 on Germany's side. Of course, Turkey was unable to attack Serbia because Bulgaria and Greece were between Serbia and Turkey.


Bulgaria entered war on Germany's side in October 1915. At the same time Germany and Austria launched a big offensive against Sebia. The combined Germany-Austria-Bulgarian forces were 3 times more numerous than Serbian army, so Serbs decided to retreat. Since the direct route toward Greece along the Morava and the Vardar valley was severed by Bulgarians, Serbs retreated through Kosovo, Montenegro and Albania. A heroic battle was fought on Christmas 1916 (7 January 1916) between the army of Montenegro and the army of Austria-Hungary. Austrians had several times more troops than Montenegrins, but their position was poor and they couldn't advance through the narrow gorge in the mountainous region of northern Montenegro. The Montenegrins fought bravely, holding out long enough for the Serbian Army to complete its withdrawal. After that, in February 1916, Montenegro capitulated.


Also, in 1918 after the capitulation of Austria on 3 November 1918, Hungary broke away from Austria and went on with the war on its own. Serbia fought a war with Hungary long after the war in other parts of Europe ended. Hungary signed cease-fire on 23 November 1918. This was due to the Hungarian bid to get a separate armistice and separate peace treaty. They got them all right, but lost 2 thirds of their territory in the process.

[joncnunn]

Hum, I didn't know that Hungary broke away from Austria on its own, thought it was a treaty of Verdun thing, like Serbia enlarged to form Yugoslavia.

Next thing you know, someone is going to say that the Baltic Republics had already established their independence from the Russian empire (and the Poles from the section of Poland taken from Russia) before the tretry of Verdun was signed.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Historically, the Austrian empire would only have accepted peace on turn 1 if they'd been allowed to occupy the country.


Hmm, not entirely true. There was a secret treaty between Austria na Serbia, signed in 1881, called the Secret Convention which defined all aspects of mutual relations and foreign policy of both countries. The treaty was completely secret, i.e. nobody knew of its existence save the highest officials in both countries. The treaty was signed and upheld while Obrenovic Dynasty was in power. However on 29. May 1903 there was a coup in Serbia and a new dynasty came to power (Karadjordjevic Dynasty).

Had there been another coup in Serbia, or a renewal of the treaty, Serbia would have had nothing to worry. After all, Austria didn't want to destroy or occupy Serbia. She merely wanted to bring Serbia back in line.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Hum, I didn't know that Hungary broke away from Austria on its own, thought it was a treaty of Verdun thing, like Serbia enlarged to form Yugoslavia.

Next thing you know, someone is going to say that the Baltic Republics had already established their independence from the Russian empire (and the Poles from the section of Poland taken from Russia) before the tretry of Verdun was signed.


A separate peace treaty was signed with Hungary on 4 June 1920 (Treaty of Trianon).


However, the date of the armistice with Hungary is from my memory, so it may have been a few days earlier or later. The fact is that Hungary was the Central Power to capitulate last in WWI.

[joncnunn]

Austria had recently annexed Bosnia-Huz. soon before the war started and that arch duke was in fact there to assert Austrian rule there. It's clear that Austria was expanding South East. Perhaps because the Prussians had beaten the Austrians and unified with those Southern German states which had been under Austrian influence?

For that matter, the intended target wasn't that arch duke but the local governor, and it's clear that the conspiracy did not originate from the Serbian govt dispite the Austrians claimed at the time. Angering Austria was not what the Serbian govt wanted.

[Ljube]

The conspiracy didn't originate from the Serbian Government, but it may have been encouraged by the Government and even aided indirectly, through proxies close to both sides (the government of Serbia and the illegal Bosnian organisation "Mlada Bosna" - "Bosnian Youth" which organised the assassination of the arch duke).

During the reign of King Alexander I Obrenovic (1889-1903) a group of young officers organised a resistance movement against his rule. They were primarily against him for his marriage to a widowed 11 years his senior court lady Draga Masin, who became Queen in 1900. After that things turned for the worse. Wages of the army officers were cut. Queen's brothers whom the army despised assumed high military positions. It all led to such resent that the young officers in question organised a group called "Crna Ruka" (Black Hand). This group was aided by Russia and Peter Karadjordjevic, son of exiled former ruler of Serbia Alexander Karadjrdjevic. Peter Karadjordjevic was also famous for his participation in the Bosnian rebellion (1875-1878) where he led a small army of rebels against Turks and gained sympathies of the Serbian general population. The young officers also had sympathies for the Bosnian independence movement.

Following his ascension to the throne, King Peter I Karadjordjevic promptly renounced the Secret Convention. This resulted in economic sanctions imposed by Austria (ban on pork imported from Serbia - the so called Pork war) and political actions (annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1908). To avoid an outright war with Austria, King Peter and his Prime Minister Nikola Pasic resorted to alternative channels. Once again the Black hand was employed, this time to provide supplies and training to the Bosnian paramilitaries. Although a direct link between the Serbian Government and the Sarajevo assassination did not exist, it was possible to trace it through the Black Hand and its members.

[Modo44]

Wow, quite a history lesson there. :b:


On a side note ;), the new save went out to Czar Trollius IV. :)

First post updated with the following: AI set to Sid, permanent war set between France and Austria-Hungary.

[joncnunn]

Another interesting read related to WWI is Turtledove's triology "The Great War" but start with the 1880s prequeal "How Few Remain"

That is followed by "The American Empire" triology [post WWI to beginning of WWII],

which is followed by "Return Engagement" triology. (WW II) But only the first book in this is currently out. (The second is due in August, and the 3rd in Aug 2006)

It remains to be seen if turtledove is going to continue this series past WW II; I guess it depends in part upon book sales for the 2nd and 3rd books.

Without spoiler infomation, this whole set is based on "What if the South won the Civil War." In this case, General Lee's lost orders prior to Amtieum are recovered by the South instead of captured by the North as they were historically. The amusing thing there is that the soilders say "we almost lost the war right there."

[Beta]

Good read. :b:

btw - which download do we need - the English version or the MP version?? (I know I know. A stupid question.)

[Beta]

Ok - I gather it is tyhe English version. Downloaded and unzipped. :)

[Modo44]

The MP version only includes the scenario. You need the full download of the English version to play.

[joncnunn]

The scenerio might reveal some interesting facts.

As did reading thru that long thread about WW I; skimming in parts.

They have implemented the little known first phase of the WW I which was momentium driven. Everyone can build the 1/10/1 Machine Gun from turn 1, but no one starts with any. If you want to take any towns right away, :doitnow!: Otherwise it's going to be a long while before the next mom-phase of the war. And not all civs can build those late-phase units.

I also note that in earlier versions [SP], that there was a version where Austria became stronger than Germany followed by a version in which Austria got 4 towns seized by the Serbians [1], Greeks [1], and Italians [2] on turn 1.

[joncnunn]

For some reason when I tried to start the mp one in SP mode, it crashed out on AI civ 2.
The sp one started correctly.

I hope it doesn't crash on the real save.

Also I'm very happy you turned locked war off; on the SP one, the Ottoman empire has worse happiness problems than France in Napolonic Era :eek:

On the bright side, in SP the MA reports that Ottoman Empire is stronger than the Bulgs, Greeks, Serbians, and Albanians.

Athough I did note that Ottoman empire can't move any units on turn 1 in SP.

[joncnunn]

As to how to get your GA in this conquest [mp one]:
If you don't start with one due to Great Wonder placement, you'll need to win with your normal UU from the epic [unless your Germany in which case it's your version of the tank]. At least I didn't see any Great Wonders not already built.
In some cases, this is with an ancient unit indeed. :D

The normal turn limit is 54 turns. (1 X month.) Domination victory conditions are standard so I think we'll hit the turn limit.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by joncnunn
For some reason when I tried to start the mp one in SP mode, it crashed out on AI civ 2.
The sp one started correctly.

I hope it doesn't crash on the real save.
Same thing happened to me. I have no idea what causes the crash when trying to start it as a SP game. The scenario runs fine if started as a PBEM.

Originally posted by joncnunn
Also I'm very happy you turned locked war off; on the SP one, the Ottoman empire has worse happiness problems than France in Napolonic Era :eek:
Actually, this seems to be a general bug in the SP version. I tried playing Russia, and cities were riculously unhappy even as low as Emperor level. It almost looks as if the game ignores either luxuries or all happiness buildings (probably the first) for some reason. This gets resolved after the first turn in PBEMs, but obviously not in SP.

But this is only when playing the scenario in SP mode. I looked at the first turn of every civ in the PBEM when setting up the game, and happiness was at a normal level, so we should be ok.

Originally posted by joncnunn
Athough I did note that Ottoman empire can't move any units on turn 1 in SP.
Some civs can not move units on the first turn in SP. No civs (I think) can move units on the first turn in the PBEM.

I think we can safely assume the game will continue for as long as we like, even if it hits the turn limit. Basically, we will play until someone clearly wins, or until we get bored (whichever comes first ;))—just like in the WWII game.

[joncnunn]

The SP version has most of the world in a set of locked alliances.
Something like 6 Central Powers vs 8 Allied powers. [Including Albana like to be wiped out on turn 1/2]

France only has 3 locked oppoents in Napolonic. (after you knock out Amsterdam on turn 1/2)

WW is calculated on a per player basis. Each locked war = max WW for that player.

[Modo44]

I see. Good to know that thing about locked wars. Makes me dislike the option even more...

I think the authors of the scenario missed that point, or made it too drastic. This makes Russia non-defendable on the higher difficulty levels, as all her big cities (the ones that could really help you survive) use 2/3 (or more!) citizens as Entertainers.

[joncnunn]

Well, those with a low-WW govt do have a couple of options; note that setting a high-WW govt in a locked war would probably immeatdely triger a forced anarchy; hum possible interesting trick for a scenerio ...

1. Declare a revolution on turn 1. Ottoman Empire is even relgious, so they only undergo a two turn anarchy.

If Russia isn't relgious though, that's a 7 to 9 turn anarchy though :eek: I think even the German AI would conquer much of Russia very fast if that option was chosen by a human.

2. 50%+ luxary slider. Combined with as much luxaries as you can get a hold of. This probably means reserach completely off because min research is aprox 40% of the turn limit for SP.

3. Wipe out the minor civs your at war with.

Originally posted by Modo44
I see. Good to know that thing about locked wars. Makes me dislike the option even more...

I think the authors of the scenario missed that point, or made it too drastic. This makes Russia non-defendable on the higher difficulty levels, as all her big cities (the ones that could really help you survive) use 2/3 (or more!) citizens as Entertainers.

[joncnunn]

Except that Russian govt did in fact collapse in part from WW during the Great War.

Originally posted by Modo44
I see. Good to know that thing about locked wars. Makes me dislike the option even more...

I think the authors of the scenario missed that point, or made it too drastic. This makes Russia non-defendable on the higher difficulty levels, as all her big cities (the ones that could really help you survive) use 2/3 (or more!) citizens as Entertainers.

[Paddy]

so in amongst all that - the game has started right :evil:

[Modo44]

Yes, the first save went to Trolldom. But the czar has been silent for a day now. This is a disaster almost as big as one Paddy disappearing. ;)

[Paddy]

haha :lol:

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44
Yes, the first save went to Trolldom. But the czar has been silent for a day now. This is a disaster almost as big as one Paddy disappearing. ;)
yes and add this additional disaster

I have all weekend to pay so I am sending turns now

lets get 'em while they are hot
after fixing this

[Modo44]

First of all, we are now eight players, so that save is not valid anyway. I will update the first post in this thread in a bit (forgot to). Please hold, and wait for a new save.

Second, the scenario should run just fine as it is. But, you need to download the files, and unzip them into the Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios folder. A new folder called "juillet1914" should be created. With it, you should have no problem opening the save (at least until we start building other new units...). A link to the download site is in the first post in this thread.

EDIT: New save sent.

[Ljube]

No locked wars or allainces Modo please.

[Grandpa Troll]

I am downloading now and will try again

in a few moments

Gramps

[Grandpa Troll]

ok

I have it but need Masoro's email addy

Gramps

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
No locked wars or allainces Modo please.
Of course not. All turned off. Also, the difficulty level was dropped down to Monarch.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
ok

I have it but need Masoro's email addy

Gramps

emailed the addy to you

[marcuspeddle]

Thanks mate

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot


emailed the addy to you

Thanks

Masoro turn to ya my friend

I am looking forward to one day each and everyone of you coming to the knowledge of Karl Marx and why are the way we are

June 1914 off:evilgrin:

[marcuspeddle]

I got the turn but it asks for a password for England. France seems to have been skipped over.
What happened?

[Paddy]

hehe

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Masuro
I got the turn but it asks for a password for England. France seems to have been skipped over.
What happened?

not sure because I pretty much opened turn and looked but had nothing to do..??

Maybe this modded scenario has yet another glitch?:hmmm:

[Ljube]

Perhaps France is still set as the AI.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko
Perhaps France is still set as the AI.

perhaps Masuro has been deposed before being sworn in?

:shame: :nono: :shame:

[Modo44]

All civs get to move units on the second turn only, not on the first. The game thinks there is nothing to do, but you can (and probably should...) move citizens, change builds, and science/luxuries allocation. You can also rush things.

[marcuspeddle]

But when I open the turn it's Beta's England I see, not the beautiful vineyards of Masuro's France. :(

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Masuro
But when I open the turn it's Beta's England I see, not the beautiful vineyards of Masuro's France. :(
yeah frozen grapes maje for crappy vino ;)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot

yeah frozen grapes maje for crappy vino ;)

when you have a lemon ya make lemonade

soooooo

Make a nice little dessert to feed yer troops while I prepare my Gulag fer them:evilgrin:

[Modo44]

Due to the restarts, Grandpa Troll got three saves, all named in a similar way. I just sent the correct one again, so hopefully everything will be fine now. :)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44
Due to the restarts, Grandpa Troll got three saves, all named in a similar way. I just sent the correct one again, so hopefully everything will be fine now. :)

June 1914 a d sent to Masuro

It looked correct as this go around his name was in the civ board under Carthagenians;)

[Grandpa Troll]

I may have to leave fer a spell

I intentionally said Carth as a joke to see if anyone was reading this post
It was France and yes I do believe the game is finally under way
:band: :dance: :band:

[Paddy]

when will you be back?

[marcuspeddle]

The turn worked this time.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
when will you be back?

oh just around the house

I worked over 80 hours this week so I am around just not exactly sitting still..

that comes in a few hours

:D

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Masuro
The turn worked this time.

sweet:b:

[marcuspeddle]

Did you get the save, Beta?

[Beta]

Originally posted by Masuro
Did you get the save, Beta?

Yep - will be playing it today.

Admiral and Lord beta of Britain.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Beta
Yep - will be playing it today.
Either you have a weird understanding of "today", or Paddy did not play a save right after receiving it. Now, which one is it? ;)

[Paddy]

a save... someones got a save I could play???

where do I go...? :evil: :lol: :evil:

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
a save... someones got a save I could play???

where do I go...? :evil: :lol: :evil:

oh dun you start that mistuh Aussie Prince:doitnow!:

ya got two hung up from me :eek:

[Shogun Gunner]

leaving a mark to see this thread in "My Threads"

[Grandpa Troll]

where da turn be @??

[Modo44]

Beta the slacker has it, I presume...

[Paddy]

a dilemma indeed....

[joncnunn]

And Beta is usually more adviable in our Conquests Democracy game on weekdays than on the weekend. :scared:

[Grandpa Troll]

he has sent some saves this evening, has anyone PM'd him?

I will right now

Gramps

[Paddy]

yeah, he is off to battle command central bed :b:

we will see more of him in the coming days

yet another casualty of real life :eek:

[Beta]

Gentlemen - my most humble apologies for the delay. I have been busy - but to be honest - I thought this was going to be more of a bear to play than it is.

I will be a more reliable player in the future.

Save to the wine-swilling Spaniards.

Signed - Prime Minister and Lord Beta of Britain.

[Paddy]

lots of cheap wine here matey ;)

[Paddy]

tx Beta

WWI, to Jon C N, June, 1914 AD.SAV

[joncnunn]

The Otoman Empire govt collapses into anarchy.

Turn sent to Shogun. June 1914 AD

[joncnunn]

Oh, and by the way, the encycopedia entries aren't linked up right.

[Shogun Gunner]

Any Ideas? I wanted to play my turn tonight :(

I have already downloaded the files required to play the game...and I have played the scenario once already.

[Paddy]

ouch... :hmmm:

[Modo44]

Crap, I thought I had repaired that bug. :wall:

Try this. In the "Civ3\Conqests\Scenarios\juillet1914\Text" folder replace the text file with the one attached below. This should work for any nation.

[Shogun Gunner]

Okay, that works. Thanks Modo.

A few questions, any governments (except Fascism) can be switched to immediately, correct? For example, Austria-Hungary can switch to Parliamentarism or Presidential, right?

I assume the civ traits for Austria are what is listed in the Civlopedia...which is commercial and seafaring...and the Dromon is my UU :(

Save to Ljube...once I get your email addy.... :confused:

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Okay, that works. Thanks Modo.
:relief:

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
A few questions, any governments (except Fascism) can be switched to immediately, correct? For example, Austria-Hungary can switch to Parliamentarism or Presidential, right?
You can switch with the usual Anarchy. As can everyone.

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
I assume the civ traits for Austria are what is listed in the Civlopedia...which is commercial and seafaring...and the Dromon is my UU :(
Austria-Hungary is Militaristic and Agricultural. I think only the Ottomen and Spain have their original traits, with main powers being somewhat strenghtened. The civilopedia is not updated, so you have to open the scenario in the editor to see what is what.

But I think you are right about the UU not being the correct one. Looks like more civs have the problem. Britain and Austria-Hungary have armoured vehicles that should probably start a Golden Age, but they lack the ability. However, Spain and Serbia have no good UUs to connect to the event generating a Golden Age. I could change that, but it would require a restart.

[Paddy]

Game On... :b:

life is strange enough... :lol:

[Shogun Gunner]

Thanks Modo. That clears everthing up. I'm not requesting a restart.

Just waiting on Ljube's email...

[Ljube]

ljcvetko at eunet dot yu

[Shogun Gunner]

thanks.

June 1914 to Ljube

[joncnunn]

Shogun, I highly recommend opening up the editor, and not the encylopedia. The encylopedia is full of mismatches.

Also going into a potential 9 turn anarchy for non religious civs isn't particularly recommended.

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Okay, that works. Thanks Modo.

A few questions, any governments (except Fascism) can be switched to immediately, correct? For example, Austria-Hungary can switch to Parliamentarism or Presidential, right?

I assume the civ traits for Austria are what is listed in the Civlopedia...which is commercial and seafaring...and the Dromon is my UU :(

Save to Ljube...once I get your email addy.... :confused:

[joncnunn]

Going by the editor, the Ottomen Empire in this conquest is Agricultural and Religious instead of Industrial and Relgious.

Germany is Industrious, Militarious, Agricultural, and Commerical.
Germany is probably the only one which looks to have a proper GA unit, athough that's kind of a disadvantage in that the German UU is adviable much later than others. Most civs can in fact build their GA unit on turn 1 and then arrange to attack a redlined unit with it shortly thereafter since their unit is so ancient.

Originally posted by Modo44

:relief:


You can switch with the usual Anarchy. As can everyone.


Austria-Hungary is Militaristic and Agricultural. I think only the Ottomen and Spain have their original traits, with main powers being somewhat strenghtened. The civilopedia is not updated, so you have to open the scenario in the editor to see what is what.

But I think you are right about the UU not being the correct one. Looks like more civs have the problem. Britain and Austria-Hungary have armoured vehicles that should probably start a Golden Age, but they lack the ability. However, Spain and Serbia have no good UUs to connect to the event generating a Golden Age. I could change that, but it would require a restart.

[Modo44]

You are right about the land UUs. But scoring a win with a Dromon or a Man-O-War will be really tough...

[Ljube]

June 1914 to Modo. My unique unit is that stupid inca scout. :(

I doubt I'll be killing anything with one of those. :(

And my stupid ancient wonders have all expired. :(

[Modo44]

Maybe we will have to restart anyway. I could not move any of my units. This was supposed to happen, but only on the first turn. Perhaps there must be one civ without the "surprised" flag for it to work correctly. Perhaps we found yet another C3C bug. The hard way, of course... :wall:

If Grandpa Troll will be unable to move his units, I guess some editing will happen, and we will have start again. If that is the case, I will consider addressing the UU problems as well.

Anyway, save sent, and waiting to hear from Grandpa Troll whether his units can move.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44
Maybe we will have to restart anyway. I could not move any of my units. This was supposed to happen, but only on the first turn. Perhaps there must be one civ without the "surprised" flag for it to work correctly. Perhaps we found yet another C3C bug. The hard way, of course... :wall:

If Grandpa Troll will be unable to move his units, I guess some editing will happen, and we will have start again. If that is the case, I will consider addressing the UU problems as well.

Anyway, save sent, and waiting to hear from Grandpa Troll whether his units can move.

ya know this suxors

I cant move any units
with all I have going and the amount of time invested in trying to get this going
I have all that time to work and well

I cant move any units now

makes me wonder what exactly has been tweaked and what hasnt

wait

at the rate this one has taen in 6-10 weeks I should only have to play 1 or 2 turns anyway

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :q:

turn (if ya can call it that)
sent to masoro:mad:

[Ljube]

OK, time to restart and play test. Modo, tweak the game tomorrow, start it again with only you and me and let's test it before we start it next time.

[Modo44]

Crap. :(

It seems it does need more editing, and no, I can not do it by changing the save (or I do not know the right tools). So sorry. I understand if anyone feels this is too tedious, and wants to leave.

So, we officially need to restart the game. And, to agree what units Spain, Britain and Serbia get as their UUs. Any ideas?

Anyway, it is late, so good night (or good morning, or whatever ;)).

[Shogun Gunner]

Modo, I'll stick with this while the bugs are identified and worked out.

Please consider an appropriate UU for Austria-Hungary as well.

Thanks for your work on this PBEM.

[marcuspeddle]

Are we stopping the game until the bugs are worked out? I have the save now; should I just erase it?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Masuro
Are we stopping the game until the bugs are worked out? I have the save now; should I just erase it?

yes

you cant move units so we are all, including me, waiting for the bugs to get worked out.

A little testing will be performed between Modo and Ljube and once it looks fine, game will continue

Gramps

[Modo44]

Sent the test save to Ljube.

I added the GA flag to the apropriate armoured units for France, Britain, and Austria-Hungary. France and Britain have special Tanks, while Austria-Hungary has an Armoured Car (that means different techs are required).

Any ides on what units to add/use as GA-starters for Spain and Serbia? I was thinking about copying the standard Cavalry, and giving them that.

[Paddy]

Hmmm thought I already had Cav in Spain...

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
Hmmm thought I already had Cav in Spain...
You do. I was thinking about making an additional Cavalry unit for your civ, one that would be there just for the purpose of allowing you and easy GA. Or do you really want to do that with Conquistadors? ;)

[Paddy]

hahaha, good point :)

[Ljube]

Conquistadors are the best unique unit of all. The only drawback is that they cost 70 shields, but I'd say it's worth it. So Pady needs no additional UU.

As for Serbs, I was thinking about a historical unique unit. Serbian artillery proved to be particularly lethal for any opponent in WWI due to the highly trained and disciplined crews, flexible organisation in small batteries (manoeuvrability) and resourcefulness in using the shells of different calibres! Therefore I suggest you make a special Serbian artillery unit called Serbian Battery which would be cheaper than normal artillery, will have greater accuracy and lethal land bombardment.


June 1914 test sent to Modo.

[Modo44]

The save is not here. Please send again.

Paddy gets a special Cavalry, and Ljube gets Artillery. But if I am going to give the Artillery Lethal Bombard, I will also reduce its attack strength a bit.

[Ljube]

No reduction. And cheaper than other artillery units to reflect it's smaller size. And lethal is to reflect it's effectiveness in battle of Cer and battle of Kolubara.

Save resent.

[Ljube]

Also, the ottomans are the only religious civ so they are the only civ which can switch to republic on the first turn, which is unfair. I suggest you give them some other trait, pick 2 from militaristic, agricultural and industrial.

[Ljube]

I cannot move my units still. Why is that?

Could you please include my artillery UU before we restart?

[Modo44]

Alright, I guess we just drop the stupid flag. I have no clue why it would not work. I guess nobody will attack on the first turn anyway, right?

You do not get cheaper units with better stats. Either cheaper or better stats. Since you need Lethal bombard to get a GA, it is going to be standard cost, standard Artillery with Lethal Bombard and GA-starting.

Paddy, what about that Cavalry? Or is it Conquistador?

[Grandpa Troll]

perhaps since I am a sad sack of a player

:hmmm:

you could give me say a privateer with oh 3X HP and maybe 2X movement

Gramps

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
perhaps since I am a sad sack of a player

:hmmm:

you could give me say a privateer with oh 3X HP and maybe 2X movement
Well, I could, but Russia already has a great UU. You can build the Cossack, right? You know, that better version of Cavalry? Win a battle and your GA will start. :)

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Modo44
You do not get cheaper units with better stats. Either cheaper or better stats. Since you need Lethal bombard to get a GA, it is going to be standard cost, standard Artillery with Lethal Bombard and GA-starting.



Bah! What about Ansar Warrior? Cheaper unit with better stats. Give me normal artillery that costs 70 and with lethal bombardment. Is this to much to ask?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44

Well, I could, but Russia already has a great UU. You can build the Cossack, right? You know, that better version of Cavalry? Win a battle and your GA will start. :)

Thanks like a modern day F Troop:b:

[Modo44]

Bah, the Ansar is just the exception that proves the rule. :p

By the way, I just rememberred to allow Cannons to be upgraded to that Serbian wunderwaffe. ;)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44

By the way, I just rememberred to allow Cannons to be upgraded to that Serbian wunderwaffe. ;)

help an iggorant Yankee pls

What is a wunderwaffe?

:confused:

[Ljube]

Thanks! :)


Wunderwaffe = wonder weapon

Not all that different. ;)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ljube
Thanks! :)


Wunderwaffe = wonder weapon

Not all that different. ;)

So a cannon=artillery

WWI had artillery so this would have additional range or hps correct?

[Ljube]

OK, I can move my units now. The test is successful. Paddy doesn't need a special cavalry. I'd trade a special cavalry for conquistadors any time. Perhaps you can increase their attack to 4.

Please, do change ottomans from religious into something else. I see Serbian Battery in the list of units, but I don't know what the stats are. I hope it's normal artillery + 70 shields + lethal land bomb + can upgrade canon to Serbian Battery.
Thanks!

Now let's start the game.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ljube
OK, I can move my units now. The test is successful. Paddy doesn't need a special cavalry. I'd trade a special cavalry for conquistadors any time. Perhaps you can increase their attack to 4.

Please, do change ottomans from religious into something else. I see Serbian Battery in the list of units, but I don't know what the stats are. I hope it's normal artillery + 70 shields + lethal land bomb + can upgrade canon to Serbian Battery.
Thanks!

Now let's start the game.

Great work

:dance:

turn on folks:b:

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
So a cannon=artillery

WWI had artillery so this would have additional range or hps correct?
You have standard Cannons, and standard Artillery, as you know them from SP games (if you ever played one ;)).

Artillery is pretty powerful here, as most "Tanks" have a whooping 1 movement point, so they will not be very effective blitzing anything, ever. Later there is advanced, very powerful, very expensive artillery called Howitzers. I am no expert on WW I, but I know bombing things dead with shells will be very important in this game.

Starting the game now. Wait for it.

By the way, I left the Conquistador as Spain's UU, just gave it +1 attack over the standard value.

EDIT: Save sent.

[Grandpa Troll]

sheers

thanks for all the hardwork:b:

[Grandpa Troll]

works great

June 1914 to Masuro

[joncnunn]

Changing the Ottoaman empire's Relgious traight :nono:

Republic isn't in this game and neither is Democracy.

It's two turn anarchy for religious civs, not one.

I think the standard Spahi as the UU is fine for the Ottomans.

Originally posted by Ljube
Also, the ottomans are the only religious civ so they are the only civ which can switch to republic on the first turn, which is unfair. I suggest you give them some other trait, pick 2 from militaristic, agricultural and industrial.

[Grandpa Troll]

so autocracy is or is not a govt?

Gramps:confused:

[joncnunn]

On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades)

Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by joncnunn
On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades)

Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.

game is under way Joncnunn:b:

[joncnunn]

Yes, see the editor. There are major differences in the govts compared to standard.

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
so autocracy is or is not a govt?

Gramps:confused:

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Modo44
The save is not here. Please send again.

Paddy gets a special Cavalry, and Ljube gets Artillery. But if I am going to give the Artillery Lethal Bombard, I will also reduce its attack strength a bit.

:b:

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Yes, see the editor. There are major differences in the govts compared to standard.



what editor?

I thought this was put together on a wing and prayer?

[marcuspeddle]

Turn sent to Beta

[Ljube]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Changing the Ottoaman empire's Relgious traight :nono:



Ah, be a sport jon. It was not meant for anyone to change government throughout WWI and certainly not to change government with virtually no anarchy. We do want a little bit of historical accuracy here for the sake of role playing which is going to be the key element of this game.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by joncnunn
On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades)

Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.


Serbia had lethal artillery in WWI. How else can Serbian victories against twice as numerous enemies in two epic battles be explained, let alone achieved?
Again, this game is played for the sake of role playing.

[Ljube]

One last question Modo. Can I upgrade my Serbian Battery to Howitzer?

[Modo44]

Here is how I did it:

Ljube has access to powerful Artillery with Lethal Bombard. It upgrades from Cannon, and can be upgraded to Howitzer.

Jon's Ottomen still have the Religious trait.

Paddy has a weak-attack (4) high-mobility (2 moves, treats all terrain as Roads) Unique Unit, a slightly improved Conquistador.

Britain, Austria-Hungary, and France will be happy to know that their respective unique armoured vehicles now count as UUs and can start the Golden Age.


No more restarts (I hope :scared: ).

[Ljube]

Religious Ottomans is grossly unfair. They can switch governments while nobody else can. Strange for Ottomans, particularly because they didn't switch so easily and not without some degree of anarchy, which cost them much of their territory.


EDIT: If you agree to kylle the Ottoman religious trait, perhaps you could further increase attack or defence or both of Paddy's conquistadors. Otherwise it seems they won't be so hot against WWI infantry.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Ljube
Religious Ottomans is grossly unfair.
So is your powerful artillery if the Ottomen could not counter it with the government change. I said no more restarts. The "I hope" part referred only to bugs, if any more happen.

[Paddy]

Game On :b:

hehehe ;)

[Ljube]

Give the ottomans my "powerful artillery" and give me religious if it's all the same.
Oh, and don't forget, also give me their UU cavalry.

You are effectively turning the feudal Ottomans into a Super Power.

[Modo44]

Ljube, you chose the weakest civ in this scenario, nobody forced you. Nothing will change that, so what is your problem?

Besides, a govenment change after Despotism only makes for a cashflow difference. It is hard for a small country to get more production out of it, especially if one has to do research instead of cash-rushing things, and is in a war giving him War Weariness (which everyone will be pretty soon, I believe)...

[Ljube]

I disagree.


My problem is historically inaccurate, ultra powerful Ottoman Empire which is going to destroy Serbia when in history it shrank before Serbia. Also, in history the Serbian Government was more representative than that of the Ottomans.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Ljube
My problem is historically inaccurate, ultra powerful Ottoman Empire which is going to destroy Serbia when in history it shrank before Serbia. Also, in history the Serbian Government was more representative than that of the Ottomans.
Tell that to the Italians, who are not in the game at all. :rolleyes:

I said the same to Jon about this same game: Do not count on historical accurancy.

We play the scenario as it is. If you want your version of it, go ahead and mod the file, and start a new game based on it. I can send you the current scenario, with the Serbian UU you wanted (and I included).

[Ljube]

OK, but expect me dead very soon. Perhaps I can survive selling my "powerful artillery" to super powers like Germany.


EDIT: please send me the edited file. :)

[joncnunn]

Ljube, you will last longer than you would if multi player games allowed more than 8 players.

In the SP one, Bulgaria is one of your enemies. In this one, you start with Bulgaria. In Mp, Italy starts divided between you, the Austrian-Hungarians, and France. One of the British islands off the coast of Turkey has a land bridge not there is the SP version.

No locked wars in the MP one, but most of the world in them in SP.

I was however shocked to see in the SP version that they hadn't marked any of the civs as AI only.

I'd have definately marked Albania as an AI only civ. (2 cities, 1 unit, starts in Anarchy. Even with Religious, with a human neighbor it's doubtful they'd live long enough to form a govt.

Serbia does not start in a WW govt. The difference an improved govt would make is in cash rushing not shield production nor happiness. Serbia is indeed the weakest player on the MP map, but the Ottomans are also weak compared to the major powers. (Germany, Austria-Hungary, France, England, Russia.)
This is still more major powers than WW II (Germany, England, USSR)

[Beta]

2nd version on to Paddy.

Thanks for all your work on this Modo. :b:

[Paddy]

indeed, thanks

WWI, to Jon C N, June, 1914 AD take II.SAV

[joncnunn]

WWI to Shogun

Ottoman Empire again collapses into anarchy; only this time I remember to draft a few units first. (But forgot one in a city which will starve)

The Ottoman advantage of a Spahi and Religious is offset by being technologically behind everyone and starting with no workers. We also start with half our cities off the rail network.

[Shogun Gunner]

I'm sorry to report this :(

Modo, if you can give me a new pediaicons.txt file or whatever....

[Modo44]

Are you sure you did not delete the previous one? It works with my C3C without adding or changing anything. :hmmm:

Anyway, the file is attached. Copy it to the \Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios\juillet1914\Text folder.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=54803_PediaIcons.txt

[Shogun Gunner]

Two nights working on this and I can't figure it out... :hmmm: The text file gives the same error.

I've been playing this scenario in a SP mode with no issues.

I'll have more time to try and resolve this problem tomorrow evening (Friday). I'll just remove all the WW1 scenario files and install from scratch.

[Modo44]

The first problem was due to the missing entry for the Mustard Gas unit. However, the entry fo the Expeditionary is there. I did not even have to add it. Maybe check the spelling, just to be sure.

[Ljube]

Hey, how can this be Shogun? You played your turn last time just fine, didn't you?

[Shogun Gunner]

Okay, I'll check the spelling tonight after work.

There was a problem last time around that Modo was able to quickly repair -- then I was able to play my turn without problem.

I'm confident that I'll get it working tonight. Thanks for everyone's patience.

[Shogun Gunner]

Sorry this took so long. I think I got the problem solved. I usually play my turns with 1 or 2 days of receipt.

June 1914 to Ljube

[Ljube]

June 1914 to Modo.

[Modo44]

July 1914 to Grandpa Troll.

[Grandpa Troll]

JUly 1914 to Masuro

[marcuspeddle]

Sent

Sorry for the delay; my Saturday afternoon drive turned into a long visit at a friend's house.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Masuro
Sent

Sorry for the delay; my Saturday afternoon drive turned into a long visit at a friend's house.

thats what weekends are for

rest and relaxation:b:

[Beta]

:D Indeed!

July 1914 to Paddy.

[Paddy]

WWI, to Jon C N, July, 1914 AD

[joncnunn]

Nothing of interest

turn sent to Austria Hungary.

Note that I'm out of town from Wed July 6th morning to Sunday July 10th evening US CDT (-05:00) I'm not taking my notebook on the airplane.

[Shogun Gunner]

WW1 to Ljube July 1914

[Ljube]

July 1914 to Modo.

[Modo44]

August 1914 to Granda Troll.

[Grandpa Troll]

august 1914 a d to Masuro

I hope my people will not only rule but more guide the world to a peace

have we not experienced a thousand deaths over a million battlefields to only find ourselves right back here:(

[marcuspeddle]

Aug. 1914 to Beta

[Paddy]

bingo, obviously you are busy Beta. looking forward to your return to pbemland

[Grandpa Troll]

just checking in?

[Beta]

Guys - the save is with me. I have been very busy in Rl the last couple of weeks. Also - I have a new computer, and although I thought I transferred over all the relevant nd necessary files and scenarios, I can't load the WW1 scenario. My humble apologies for the delay. I am out of town visiting my folks tomorrow, and will retry on Sunday. If I still can't get it to work - we may need to resort to different options. But as I had no probolems the first time around, I am sure I can get it to work this time as well. :)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Beta
Guys - the save is with me. I have been very busy in Rl the last couple of weeks. Also - I have a new computer, and although I thought I transferred over all the relevant nd necessary files and scenarios, I can't load the WW1 scenario. My humble apologies for the delay. I am out of town visiting my folks tomorrow, and will retry on Sunday. If I still can't get it to work - we may need to resort to different options. But as I had no probolems the first time around, I am sure I can get it to work this time as well. :)

we will see ya when you return

Peace

Gramps

[marcuspeddle]

I declare war on Beta for the delay. :D

Just kidding. Have a good time with your parents.

[Shogun Gunner]

Guys,

I'm sorry, but I'm planning to withdrawl from this game.

The main reason is that I will be in China during the month of August and I'm not sure what type of internet access I will have during my stay.

However, I will play turns until a replacement is found and/or before I leave on my trip in the first week of August.

Sorry.

Shogun Gunner

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Guys,

I'm sorry, but I'm planning to withdrawl from this game.

The main reason is that I will be in China during the month of August and I'm not sure what type of internet access I will have during my stay.

However, I will play turns until a replacement is found and/or before I leave on my trip in the first week of August.

Sorry.

Shogun Gunner

Enjoy your trip and you will be missed

Gramps:(

[Paddy]

well hopefully Beta can play his turn before Gunner leaves.. one more turn maybe

[Paddy]

ahh well it was an idea :p

[Shogun Gunner]

This weekend will be my last opportunity before my trip. Modo has my password if you want someone to stand in for me and/or permanently replace me.

This scenario is a great idea, I just wish the game could move a bit faster.

[Modo44]

*BUMP*

Yes, this is old. Very old, Beta...

[Grandpa Troll]

so this is dead?:confused:

[Modo44]

Just trying to reanimate here. I know only the basic facts.

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
so this is dead?:confused:
I hope it is not. But it is with Beta, which can be misleading sometimes. ;)

Plus, Shogun Gunner said he wanted to be replaced in this game.

[Paddy]

Shogun is back from his holiday now :) and playing saves.

Have you emailed Beta?

[marcuspeddle]

This weekend is Chuseok in Korea. Koreans prepare a table of food to honour the dead and their ancestors. Shall I pour a cup of rice wine for this PBEM?

[Shogun Gunner]

Eight players is very ambitious. We are on page 5 of the tracking thread and in July 1914 and things have already broken down.

I will stay on if we can get things moving in the right direction. I just don't want to invest time into a big PBEM game like this unless it has a possibility of reaching some level of success. Remember cIV's release is rapidly approaching. Are we going to experience additional slowdowns and player drop outs when that game arrives. I can guarantee it.

I would recommend polling the existing players on this PBEM to give people a chance to play or drop out. For those who select to stay, collectively reach an agreement to a requirement of either playing, or posting to when they will play, with an agreed upon timeframe.

Sorry for the tone, but its tough to get any kind of flow/tempo going in these big PBEM games (Randomizer, Cold War also come to mind). This is just my opinion and suggestion, it's up to Modo as this is his PBEM.

[marcuspeddle]

I can play and am interested in playing if others take regular turns.
Please do not say you're in if you can't make a commitment of a turn a day.

[Shogun Gunner]

I will absolutely stay on if we were committing to a turn a day. I'm in about 10/11 PBEMs and I play saves within one day of receiving.

With eight people that would mean that your turn would be every second or third day at the fastest.

[Modo44]

I think you were being nice, Shogun. Thanks for the help, I was getting tired of bumping things lately.

This is how it goes: Everyone should please confirm whether he can play each turn within 24 hours of receiving the save (except for announced absence only). And I mean no "I forgot"s nor other things like that -- this game is too big, and we really can not afford such delays if we are ever going to finish it.

I will send PMs to Jon, Beta, and Ljube, to notify them.

[Beta]

OK - I am still up for this and the hold up is due to me. I got a new computer after coming back from vacation, and after loading up all my civ stuff, I was unable to play the scenario. So, I need to try loading it again - but then work got busy, and now I have parental care duties to attend to for the next week.

I can get it back on the rails by Monday or Tuesday next week - if I can address the technical issues. If not - I will forward it on to someone else (along with the password) for them to play.

My apologies folks. :(

[Grandpa Troll]

no offense

but 8 players:scared:

not had any luck over about 4 max

hmmm:hmmm:

[joncnunn]

I can only make turns on weekends.

[Grandpa Troll]

count me out

no offense to anyone

but i have some game going on a year we only played up til 2500 b c

thats not gonna make it

:surrender :shame: :nono: :nono:

[Shogun Gunner]

Can't blame you Grandpa, I have been on the fence about leaving also. This just isn't going to work -- so I'm out also.

[Grandpa Troll]

again..too many humans in a game is a multiplier for slow turn rate:rolleyes:

[joncnunn]

Maybe it would be better for Grandpa and Shogun to stay and me to leave considering my curent weekend only status.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Maybe it would be better for Grandpa and Shogun to stay and me to leave considering my curent weekend only status.

This isnt about you Joncnunn, it is about the state of affairs of playing these games

I get busy too

But I dont want nor will I continue to take part in a game that has a turn per month

it doesnt bode well for me

things happen and it has certainly happened to me

but I want to play not try and figue out a month ago what I was intending to do

I am speaking for me only

I love to play and I am sure you and many others do as well

For me I need to stop breaking my rule and only play in game with a few people

I remain confidant in finding many such games

Gramps

[Paddy]

wow - so where do we stand?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
wow - so where do we stand?

I think this summizes where we are:

We aint building a game we are digging a hole:q:

[Modo44]

Well, looks like a(nother) restart to me, as retiring any civ would dramatically unbalance the game. Only this time, four players tops. The other nations would be AI, at Sid. I would still like to play Germany. Any takers?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Modo44
Well, looks like a(nother) restart to me, as retiring any civ would dramatically unbalance the game. Only this time, four players tops. The other nations would be AI, at Sid. I would still like to play Germany. Any takers?

ill take Russia

simply enjoy "portraying" Czar Troll IV"

[marcuspeddle]

I'm out, I think. I hope you can get it going with four players.

[Paddy]

I would like to stay in this game. But only if you staying with four.

If you already have four - I will bow out happily

:) my time is short enough this next 4 - 8 weeks.

[Modo44]

Currently there are three, meaning me, Grandpa Troll, and Paddy. :)

And yes, I plan to stick with four, so the first one to post here gets to play.

Paddy, do you want to keep Spain, or would you like a different civ?

[Paddy]

Not likely ;) opps who said that :lol:

Britian please, unless that player is still interested, then I be proud to be Spain ;)

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
Not likely ;) opps who said that :lol:

Britian please, unless that player is still interested, then I be proud to be Spain ;)

sweet!!

2 of the best,a yet to be named and da biggest loser having the most fun more than even anyone:eek: ;) :naughty: :b:

[joncnunn]

I'm out, it's up to you guys, but I strongly sugest making Spain, Greece, and the Ottoman empire AIs.

Germany and the UK really need to be human.

I actually played this one a few turns in the single player mode as Germany, but got bored when I conquered Beligum on turn 2 (I signed a ROP with Neatherlands) and captured Paris on turn 8.

AI just doesn't know how to defend itself properly. Perhaps the AI would have been better if Machine Guns were draftable instead of WWI Inf.

[Grandpa Troll]

well..perhaps a fourth will soon show:hmmm:

[Grandpa Troll]

nothing yet huh?:(

[Modo44]

I was hoping Ljube or Shogun Gunner would join us, but no word from them yet. But I think we do need a fourth player. Best would be someone take France. An AI would probably not hold long against the Germans...

That said, if nobody comes around soon, I think we should have a go with just the three players. But with the AI being so dumb, I would have to add more forced alliances to keep it balanced.