One-Armed Bandits

[Rommel2D]

Herein lies discussion of a new 6 slot, two-a-day game.

The slots and players so far:

Slot A : 07-09 BST (12-02 EDT) : Trip (NeroTrip TA comcast TOD net)
Slot B : 09-11 BST (02-04 EDT) : Moonbars (James TA McQuiggan TOD demon TOD co TOD uk)
Slot C : 11-01 BST (04-06 EDT) : self biased (self dot biased [at] gmail dot com )
Slot D : 01-03 BST (06-08 EDT) : snoopy369 (snoopy369 TA yahoo TOD com)
Slot E : 03-05 BST (08-10 EDT) : Theseus (richard TA podos TOD net)
Slot F : 05-07 BST (10-12 EDT) : Rommel2D (jwala AT fastmail DOT fm)

(BST = British Summer Time = GMT+1)
Each player is expected to play their turn sometime during the 2 hour slot, both AM and PM, every weekday.

Standard size continent map, with 80% water
Roaming Barbarians
Climate/Temp/Age: Normal/Temperate/4 billion
Monarch level
All Victory Conditions but Wonder
Culture linked starts off
Culture conversions and SGLs on
NoAIPatrol=0

Moonbars has China
self biased has Japan
Trip has Maya
Rommel2D has Netherlands
Theseus has Egypt
snoopy369 has Ottomans

BTW- Kudos to alexman for the original 'slot' idea :b:

[Rommel2D]

As far as rules/setup goes, I'd suggest using the two stage tribe selection we pioneered in the Double Blind game (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=3184446#post3184446). Basically, each player nominates a number of tribes they think are the worst for that game's settings, then they pick one to play with from what the other players have nominated. It works out to be an interesting test of general Civ knowledge, with the answer key revealing itself in the subsequent game.

Double Blind was set up with a Pangaea. I'd like to try the same deal on a small archipelago map (with 60% water?) to look at the tribes from a completely different angle...

[self biased]

i could fill slot c, provided i got my turns on or ideally before four am/pm.

[self biased]

oh. yeah. self dot biased [at] gmail dot com

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by self biased
i could fill slot c, provided i got my turns on or ideally before four am/pm.

We will expect no less from Moonbars. So, are you planning to suffer some long-term jetlag after your journey here from the olde country self biased? ;-)

[Rommel2D]

Ok, the slots have been filled rather quick and painlessly. Does anyone care to weigh in with suggestions on the game's set-up?

[self biased]

the only bones i really have is difficulty level... i'm more of a recreational civer... prince or regent would be sufficent. i don't like the idea of taking on penalties just so the computer has an easier time.

[self biased]

Originally posted by Rommel2D


We will expect no less from Moonbars. So, are you planning to suffer some long-term jetlag after your journey here from the olde country self biased? ;-)

i'll be working 5pm- 1am [est] for the near future. depending on when i get my turn, i can play before i leave for work, and before i go to bed.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by self biased
the only bones i really have is difficulty level... i'm more of a recreational civer... prince or regent would be sufficent. i don't like the idea of taking on penalties just so the computer has an easier time.
There are no AI's in the game- they are too easily exploited by whoever happens to start near them. The only differences you'll notice in PBEMs without AI tribes is the number of happy citizens each town starts with, and how tough the barbarians are in combat. I favor the higher levels if only because the barbarians actually can win a battle here and there. I think even at 'Emperor' human players receive a 50% combat bonus...

[Moonbars]

I should be sending my turns fairly early in the slots, assuming they arrive on time. There will be 1 week every 5 when even a 15 minutes delay will force me to miss either work or the morning save :)

I'd be wanting to use the Iron Civ rules, with combat reports on.

Map wise.. Standard? 2 islands of 3 players each?

[Paddy]

looks like a great game

let me know if any of you need to drop out and thus require a replacement :D

[snoopy369]

Iron civ rules, with at least combat reports-2 if not higher. Perhaps standard or whatever's 1 larger than standard, continents, 60% water? Monarch is a good compromise, and doesn't have too much corruption, which i hate. ;)

And I'll note that i'll be playing towards the end of my range, right about now each day for my AM slot. I'll miss the morning one every so often, for which i'll apologize in advance, but not more than once a week i hope.

[Theseus]

I'm about to commence another PBEM set for archipelago... anyone mind if we do continents instead (maybe with a lot of water)?

[self biased]

or perhaps pangea with 70% water?

[Rommel2D]

I'm in mostly pangaea games now- the setting compromise would look to be: Standard/Continents/80% water.

Would everyone be Ok with the Two-Stage Civ selection?

[Jon Shafer]

Standard/Continents/80 is fine with me.

2-stage civ selection?

[self biased]

:gives a curious look:

[snoopy369]

I don't think 2-stage is really necessary ... i'm fine with plain old normal "I want to play X". Or, random. That's fun too, as long as you can ask for a restart based on the civ. :)

[Rommel2D]

I'm considering trying the 2-stage selection (described in the second post above) in the next Iron Civer, so I'm looking for any chance to test and streamline the process. If we don't use it here I'll look at starting another game with it.

I don't care much for random especially if you can restart with the same tribe. Among other things, it makes Ag even more ridiculously overpowered.

I lead a deprived childhood and never learned to enjoy the "I called it" honor system. :p How about ranking our top 5 Civ selections and doing a selection from those like we did for just the second stage in the double blind game? If two players choose the same tribe at the same rank, neither gets them and we move down to the next rank.

[Jon Shafer]

That works for me, as long as I don't get friggin' England...

[self biased]

:blinks twice and gives a blank stare:

"why yes, i do speak fluent navajo.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Trip
That works for me, as long as I don't get friggin' England...
Didn't I drop you enough hints that you were supposed to use a restart in a situation like that? :)

self biased, are you requesting the Iroquois, or perhaps a better description of the ranking deal? :confused:

[Jon Shafer]

I figured I could pull through it, but my luck in that game was abysmal...

[snoopy369]

lol ... Ranking would work ok, I suppose. I'm just generally for simpler = better. ;)

I'm pretty sure the Navajo are in no way related to Iroquois. The Iroquios were a group of tribes in the northern US (great lakes region) including tribes like the Mohawk. The Navajo are one of the largest tribes in the US, based on a reservation in northeastern Arizona and northwestern New Mexico, Farmington region (and always have been west, afaik).

[Rommel2D]

They're related because they are the closest tribe (geographically and temporally) in the game.

So, how about:
Standard size continent map, with 80% water
Roaming Barbarians
Climate/Temp/Age: Normal/Temperate/4 billion
Monarch level
All Victory Conditions but Wonder
Culture linked starts off
Culture conversions and SGLs on

If this is Ok with everyone, PM me a list of the top 5 tribes (1-5, #1 being the preferred one) you would like to play. I'll leave the PMs unopened in my box until after everyone has sent them and I list my chioces here. Anyone can verify this through message tracking.

If any two players give the same tribe the same rank, that tribe is discarded and those players move to their next choices. Simple enough?

[Theseus]

Civ choices PMed to Rommel2D

[Moonbars]

I am fine with settings as in Rommel's post - but maybe less water? 70%?

I will mail my top 5 asap.

[Moonbars]

How are we going to handle restarts?? I did some test generation of the map settings we are talking about, and in all 10 maps I generated, I'd be wanting a restart on at least 2 and normally 3 of the 8 locations the map generated.

[Rommel2D]

Oh yeah, restarts might affect Civ selection. Normally we've been playing that each player may call for a restart once per game, before the end of either their first or second turn. The basic idea is to decrease the odds of a jungle/swamp/mountain start since the map is purely done by the RNG. As I mentioned above, allowing someone with an Agricultural tribe this option, giving them a chance to restart if they don't start on a river, gives them an advantage they don't need at all. So the simplest and fairest option I think is to allow any tribe but those with ag a chance to restart once before the end of their first turn.

If this is Ok with everyone, it is important to keep in mind the map settings. I'm suggesting 80% water because that will produce just the right amount of land for 6 players on a standard map, while bringing a trait normally not that important in PBEMs, seafaring, more into play. However, as Moonbars mentions, these settings are likely to produce starts that don't look as good as a normal game- It's up to the player to judge the odds of a better versus a worse start given these settings. This is a one-shot deal- once you call for it, you must use the resulting start or another player's restart if they use theirs.

Feel free to reevaluate your choices in light of any new information...

[Moonbars]

works for me..

[snoopy369]

I'd prefer 70% water, also. I agree that with six players you'll end up with too many poor starts with 80% water...

Also, I suggest that Ag civs can call for a restart iff they run it by a neutral 7th party who agrees their start sucked royally and it's not just a pansy river request. It's not fair to penalize Ag civs in that way just because they are abused sometimes, and in the scheme of things if you thing Ag is a more powerful civ trait than any other, just say "no ag civs." :)

[self biased]

sounds good. i'll pm my choices in a moment.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I'd prefer 70% water, also. I agree that with six players you'll end up with too many poor starts with 80% water...

I take back what I said about starts being poor under these settings- I just generated 3 maps and all 18 starts were good enough I wouldn't restart. The key is that we're only doing 6 tribes- when I generated a map under these settings with 8 Civs, 3 or 4 of them were poor positions. 80%/standard works out well for 6 tribes. If did go with 70%, I think it would be best to switch to a small map...

Also, I suggest that Ag civs can call for a restart iff they run it by a neutral 7th party who agrees their start sucked royally and it's not just a pansy river request. It's not fair to penalize Ag civs in that way just because they are abused sometimes, and in the scheme of things if you thing Ag is a more powerful civ trait than any other, just say "no ag civs." :)
I like this rule because it is a simple, non-moded way to give the other traits a benefit over ag. It still doesn't have a serious impact on ag's power; If you remember, we had this rule in Double Blind, but I still picked the only ag tribes 1-2-3 (and didn't get them :mad: :-).

[Rommel2D]

It looks like I have everyone's picks but Trip's...

[Jon Shafer]

Sorry for the delay, internet has been down lately...

[Rommel2D]

1> Netherlands
2> Celts
3> Maya
4> Scandanavia
5> Aztecs

[Rommel2D]

I'm getting hit with alot of work while trying to squeeze in as much outdoor stuff as I can before the weather heads south. I might be able to set this up tomorrow morning or evening, or friday night (CDT) at the lastest.

Anything else I'm forgetting...?

[Theseus]

Ivory for me, please. :)

[Rommel2D]

Rookie: :)
Celts
Egypt
Hittites
Babylon
India

And here are the results of the Scottish Jury:
1 - China
2 - Japan
3 - Persia
4 - Maya
5 - France

sn00py:
Celts
Ottomans
Greeks
Persians
Byzantines

He who's words speak for themselves:
japan,
babylon,
germany,
byzantines,
ottomans

Trip:
Maya
Celts
Sumeria
Aztecs
Chinese

Moonbars has China
self biased has Japan
Trip has Maya
Rommel2D has Netherlands
Theseus has Egypt
and
snoopy369 has The Ottomans

[Jon Shafer]

Haha, never thought I'd get the Mayans...

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Theseus
Ivory for me, please. :)
And snoopy requested a new pair of shoes. Did we agree to wager on the outcome of this game...? :cute:

[Rommel2D]

Oh yeah, the last thing- Everyone needs to answer three questions:

1. Are you familiar with the Iron Civer etiquette/exploit list (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2908175#post2908175) and willing to go by it for this game?

2. Do you wish to use the optional diplomacy limitations listed under rule 1-2?

3. What level of Combat Reporting would you like?

[Rommel2D]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. 2.5

[Theseus]

1. Yes
2. What is the option?
3. 2

[Moonbars]

1. Yes
2. a - yes
b - no
c - yes
d - no
3. level 2, for simplicity

I would like to remove "declared on the foriegn advisor" and replace with "declared on the tracker thread.

[Jon Shafer]

1) I agree to the list, though, again, I would prefer if chaining wasn't allowed...

2) Sure

3) 2.5

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Rommel2d
1-2 Players shall not exchange in-game information until they are represented on each other's foreign advisor's screen. They shall not exchange graphic map information before both have knowledge of Navigation.
a) In diplomacy without an embassy between the Tribes, a player may only offer technology already known by their Tribe. They may not offer or ask for unknown techs.
b) Players shall not coordinate military action unless an alliance is formally declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
c) Players shall not make reference to specific distances or directions until both have knowledge of Map Making.
d) Players shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless they are declared in the foreign advisor's screen.



a) no
b) yes
c) no
d) yes

Level 2 or 2.5 is fine.

(Yes, i realize this is the opposite of moonbars ^^)

[Moonbars]

haha, we are quite evenly divided :)

If theseus is happy I will move to 2.5 combat reporting.

I have no problem with outlawing ship chaining.

Not so happy to move on the other options.

[Jon Shafer]

I don't think it's ever been a surprise that I don't like chaining - it's completely unrealistic and I personally think that it hurts gameplay. Yeah, infinite RRs are the same way, I wish they didn't work that way also...

[snoopy369]

Basically the reason i split A/C and B/D are because A/C are "strategy limiters" while B/D are "openness requirements". IE, A/C are limiting what we can or cannot do as a diplomatic tactic or strategy, while B/D are more specifically requiring open disclosure of alliances and pacts (admittedly a particular strategy, ie secret pacts, is limited here, but it's more specific).

In Iron Civ games i'm happy to go with A/C but in more "for fun" games i'm not really interested in limiting my options to discuss techs and/or maps with other people. I see it as basically making diplomacy less useful, which is the point of MP to me. :)

B/D, on the other hand, is important to me, because they require open disclosure of pacts etc. I certainly don't mind making deals behind closed doors, but I think that alliances or their equivalents that are advanced to the point of tactical discussion would be discovered by espionage in the real world, and thus should be in the open. Trade sanctions, I feel likewise, both in that they would be discovered in the real world quite quickly, and 'secret' deals to not trade with someone is not beneficial to the balance of the game -- if i'm being screwed by the rest of you, I want to know it. :)

Now, the interesting question to me is -- what about alliances etc. before they're in the diplo screen? I'm certainly for allowing them -- as long as they are declared in the thread... perhaps that's what you meant, Moonbars?

[Theseus]

Revised:

2) Yes, across the board
3) 2.5

[Rommel2D]

The reference to the foreign advisor screen is there to indicate certain conditions in the game's mechanics must be met. Players must show up on another's advisor screen before any communication takes place; they must have an embassy and declare an alliance to coordinate combat (so that citizen moods and war weariness are accurately reflected); and they must formally declare MPPs and Trade Embargoes for similar reasons (mood, WW, +the affect on trade networks of 3rd parties).

All four options are meant to be accepted or declined as a whole cloth for simplicity. I'd hope we can improve the quality of play without pulling out the line item veto, turning this into a congressional lawmaking session sim... :scared:

As for chaining- it hasn't come up in anything I've been involved with yet, although it might here with continents. RR movement is weak and chaining is almost the naval equivalent, but I think half of a fix is worse than no fix in this case. How specifically would a ban be implemented anyway? No transfer of units at sea, or only if they awake and move under their own power?

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Now, the interesting question to me is -- what about alliances etc. before they're in the diplo screen? I'm certainly for allowing them -- as long as they are declared in the thread... perhaps that's what you meant, Moonbars?

To be precise, generally cooperating with another player isn't the same as an alliance. An alliance is a specific diplomatic state involving war with a third party. Since the game mechanics affect citizens moods when at war, such alliances should not be formed without an in-game declaration, if the options are included.

This is a good point about the A/C and B/D groupings. Perhaps A and C should be made part of the 'mandatory' etiquette since they directly affect the mechanics, and only B/D should be optional? (Sorry if that works against your preferences, snoop. :crook: ) I'll bring it up in the IC thread when I have the time.

One thing that could probably use some clarification: Trade embargoes are only concerned with resources- exchanging money and technology are not considered "trade" in CivlizationIII.

[Rommel2D]

And all you poor doomed souls that don't recognize the power and majesty of the Ag trait should contemplate a restart before passing your first turn along... :p

[Moonbars]

ag trait be damned. A win with a Ag tribe is no win at all :) Bring it on 2Dman!

I actually agree with snoopy here, I also want openness, the reason I oppose B/D as they restrict your diplomacy until the industrial age, and the game is won by then.. If we instead had to declare such alliances in This thread, then that's fine with me - that is indeed what I meant. Also, we could make it a requirement that if two parties declare war on a third in the thread, they also have to declare on that party in the game - no possibility for one of the aggressors to sit at peace and research, whilst the other barracks and troops up..

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Rommel2D
And all you poor doomed souls that don't recognize the power and majesty of the Ag trait should contemplate a restart before passing your first turn along... :p

Food shall be your undoing. ;)

[self biased]

something tells me i'm going to be completely out of my league. oh well. damn the torpedoes.

[self biased]

also, level two combat reporting sould be sufficent.

[Jon Shafer]

4000 BC sent to Moonbars.

Good luck all. :)

But not too much. ;)

[Moonbars]

--->>>

[self biased]

sent. sorry for the delay. i didn't realize we had started yet.

[snoopy369]

no prob bob
sent to the man with the golden fleece

[Jon Shafer]

My internet has been flakey lately, so apologies if I don't hit my target times in the next few days, though I still expect to be able to. ;)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Theseus
Food shall be your undoing. ;)
Last I checked, you weren't going to be producing any banana-wielding immortals in this game. Should I prepare a BBQ for the rotting cattle carcasses from your catapults/trebs? ;)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by self biased
something tells me i'm going to be completely out of my league. oh well. damn the torpedoes.
Don't worry too much about me, I can carry on a top-notch discussion on the game, but my PBEMs so far have consisted of another tribe going custodial with me...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Rommel2D

Don't worry too much about me, I can carry on a top-notch discussion on the game, but my PBEMs so far have consisted of another tribe going custodial with me...

As long as alexman stays out of the game we're fine, rommel and selfbiased. ;)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Moonbars
I actually agree with snoopy here, I also want openness, the reason I oppose B/D as they restrict your diplomacy until the industrial age, and the game is won by then.. If we instead had to declare such alliances in This thread, then that's fine with me - that is indeed what I meant.
I put it to you the possibility that PBEM games don't make it to the industrial age primarily because easy, sloppy alliances allowed by unstructured play lead inevitably to early conflict. If enough people become familliar with and use this etiquette, perhaps the games will be more likely to run their full course...

[Jon Shafer]

Uhhh, I just realized I forgot to set a password for my game. :o

Sending a new version, utmost apologies for the mistake and delay... :o

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Rommel2D

Last I checked, you weren't going to be producing any banana-wielding immortals in this game. Should I prepare a BBQ for the rotting cattle carcasses from your catapults/trebs? ;)

HA!!! Bananas totally screw up cheesy early-arcade-tanks!! :D

/me muses upon the origin of the Spearman vs. Tank debate... BANANAS are of course the answer!

[Jon Shafer]

I like Bananas. Good as wines when chopped. ;)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Theseus
HA!!! Bananas totally screw up cheesy early-arcade-tanks!! :D

Arcade? Close, but no banana... :cool:

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Trip
I like Bananas. Good as wines when chopped. ;)
If you wish to make completely outragous statements, please pettition the Balderdash! thread... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

I also like Ocean tiles. ;)

I hope that Moonbars gets the resend... :hmmm:

[Moonbars]

got iy now.. Resending.

[Jon Shafer]

Thanks, I'll avoid doing that in the future. :D

[snoopy369]

emailed selfbiased to make sure he got the resend ... i haven't seen it yet in my inbox

[self biased]

sorry, guys my computer went down. it's back up and operational. i hate it when my friend annoys hackers more 1337 than himself. i'll play the turn and send it off momentarily.

[self biased]

turn sent. se y'all at four pm.

[snoopy369]

okies :)

sent

[Rommel2D]

Ok Theseus, the workweek has started- time to punch in for your shift... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

I'll be ready to play as soon as it gets here. :)

[snoopy369]

Just doublechecked, it was indeed sent to him when i said... 6:28 am CDT... :)

[self biased]

and you did get my turn, right snoop?

[snoopy369]

<< yup, thus why i sent it to theseus at 6:28 cdt :)

He posted in Abs+Temp that RL was getting in the way for the next 2 days, so it's all good.

[self biased]

gotcha.

oh. i won't be able to play saturday. i have to work eight am until eleven pm.

[Theseus]

Sent earlier today... didi not have a chance to post until now.

[Jon Shafer]

I'm going to work now, but I will have a chance to play my turn when I get back in about 6 hours.

[Rommel2D]

to Trip

My RL schedule is especially tight this week, so I can't play anything that arrives after noon 'Poly time until late...

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on to Moonbars.

What difficulty level is this game on again?

Here's hoping I get another turn tomorrow morning, but I'm not betting on it. ;)

[Rommel2D]

Standard size continent map, with 80% water
Roaming Barbarians
Climate/Temp/Age: Normal/Temperate/4 billion
Monarch level
All Victory Conditions but Wonder
Culture linked starts off
Culture conversions and SGLs on
All basic information should be in the first post.

[Moonbars]

-->> to Self Biased

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Rommel2D
All basic information should be in the first post.
Yeah, I figured as much but sometimes I get lazy and I knew that you or someone else would know. ;)

[snoopy369]

Turn sent a bit ago.

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

Tripping...

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on to Moonbars.

(I wish everyone was as fast as I was at these things. ;))

[Moonbars]

onwards to S-B

[self biased]

sorry for the delay... the girlfriend came over last night and well... distracted me. :naughty:

[Rommel2D]

:doitnow!: Mr. Onearm Bandit needs distraction too! :cute:

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[snoopy369]

You sure Theseus? Cause i just sent it to you now ...

:p

[Rommel2D]

Yeah, the turn I received earlier was the same as the last one, 3900. Theseus, you should be sending 3850...

:doitnow!: Mr. Onearm Bandit needs distraction too!
Hmm, that didn't come out quite right... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

I was thinking the same thing.

On both counts. :p

[self biased]

heynow... that girlfriend really ties my life together.

[Theseus]

3850 BC sent

[Rommel2D]

to Trip

[Jon Shafer]

Sent to Moonbars.

[Moonbars]

-->> onwards to the biased of self

[snoopy369]

Just out of curiousity ... are we ever going to hit our "2 a day" slots?? It'd be nice one of these days ...

[Rommel2D]

Yeah, its the weekend now, but it was made pretty clear that we should be on more than off during the week.

For one thing it seems AU junkies can't resist the lure of a pure hit of Civ... ;)

[self biased]

i work in a restaurant, so things'll never be certain. last minute schedule changes are all too commonplace. i most likely won't be able to hit my 4am-6am slot saturday or sunday, but given that it's the weekend, i should be able to play my turn around seven.

[Moonbars]

the weekend is always going to be touch and go for me... sometimes i'll be sat here with the mail client open, other times i'll not be at home except to get clean clothes :)

[self biased]

boink.

[snoopy369]

sent to Theseus

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

...and here goes the workweek... :expect:

[Jon Shafer]

Turn sent on to Moonbars.

[self biased]

i should be able to play on time until friday.

[Moonbars]

on to Selfbiased.

[Rommel2D]

Reporting in for my slot...

Originally posted by self biased
i should be able to play on time until friday.
:confused: Your first slot ended 5 hours ago.

This isn't supposed to be that difficult... :rant:

[Jon Shafer]

You people suck! :rant: :doitnow!:

[Rommel2D]

con, try keep your d/ls a little civil- this isn't Balderdash (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=3294904#post3294904)... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

Hard for someone's DL to register before them. :p

[snoopy369]

Sent on, in my slot. :D

[Rommel2D]

Attention Theseus: We have you surrounded. Put DOWN the AU game and come play PBEM for a short break. We promise you will not be harmed (for a few centuries at least). :doitnow!:

I'm headed out to the links- be back in time to harass self-biased about his slot... ;)

[Theseus]

Sorry... you are quite correct, what free time I've had has been for the AU game. :D

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

to one of con's spoofed dls...

[Jon Shafer]

Well, at least it's almost my time slot... :hmmm:

Sent on to Moonie.

[Moonbars]

That's Mr Moonie to you thank you Mr Day Tripper!

->> onwards 11 minutes early :)

[snoopy369]

Not seeing a save in my time slot :(

[self biased]

sorry. i've been sick. i'll play the save and send it on as soon as i can get into gmail.

[snoopy369]

no prob

sent on a while back to theseus

[Rommel2D]

and the 6 player 2-a-week format grinds on... :crook:

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on...

:zzz:

[Rommel2D]

Snoop- have you/will you be making the barbarian fix?

[self biased]

shush. we're easily one a day.

[Rommel2D]

The turns per day number is supposed to refer to complete turn cycles, not individual players' saves... :-p

[snoopy369]

I made the fix, Rommel. :)

[snoopy369]

And it's supposed to be *2* a day, last i checked ... as in 2 turns played per person per day... :p

[Rommel2D]

I've updated the first post with:
NoAIPatrol=0
to indicate that barbarians will now attack from all directions...

[Moonbars]

onwards.

[snoopy369]

and on to theseus ...

Why do you keep calling Trip con, Rommel? Am I missing something?

[Rommel2D]

Did you follow the link to the Balderdash thread and read about the accusations of duplicate log-ins?

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

...be Trippin'

[Jon Shafer]

It may be like pulling teeth, but at least it's starting to move faster...

Sent on to Moonhead.

[Moonbars]

to self biased.
--->>>

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Rommel2D
Did you follow the link to the Balderdash thread and read about the accusations of duplicate log-ins?

Ahhhh... Thanks :)

[Rommel2D]

End of my Monday morning time slot... :(

[Moonbars]

end of my Monday evening Time Slot..

[Rommel2D]

Another slot bites the dust...

[Jon Shafer]

Methinks people should have surveyed their commitments before joining this game...

[self biased]

sorry dude, i wasn't planning on falling ill and spending my time sleeping off the fever that i wasn't at work. we're not far into the game: restart with a computer player in my place, i'm sorry to be such a burden, but thinly veiled insults aren't all that cool.

to a certain degree you're right, but 4-6 isn't exactly the most convienent slot to try to fill, and the way my work schedule is, if i don't get my turn by 4:30, i have to leave for work. not to mention i'm on a shared computer.

so i leave this decision to everyone: we've played an handful of turns thus far, and if i continue to be sick, i will miss slots. last year i was sick like this for nearly ten weeks. it's up to you.

[Jon Shafer]

Not a thinly veiled insult, just an observation. This game was advertised as a 2-a-day game, and the thing about PBEM is that if one person doesn't play it stalls the whole group.

So no, not an insult, just upset that a game that was intended to be 2-a-day is closer to once-every-two-days, especially at a time when the turns only take about 20 seconds to play.

Do you think it's fair to be slightly disappointed by that?

[snoopy369]

I got 3700bc, but i've already played that turn ...

[self biased]

trip, i'm disappointed too, but my desire to be healthy exceeds my desire to burn the candle at both ends for the sake of a thirty second turn. 3650 resent.

[snoopy369]

On to Theseus.

[Rommel2D]

to Trip

I'm just trying to give this game a few kicks to see if it will fall into a good rhythm. S/b, if you think this bug is a rare thing and once you kick it you'll be able to take care of 'business' regularly, I wouldn't mind going easy for a few weeks. But if it will be a continual struggle to make 8 or 9 of the weekly slots, we should look for a replacement. I don't know what kind of processor and connection you have, but downloading, playing, and sending a turn is about two minutes sitting down and clicking a mouse at a desk for me, and its hard to imagine how this could qualify as "burning the candle at both ends"...

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on to the Moon Goon.

(10 minutes)

[Moonbars]

I would mirror what Rommel is saying, I'd add that Trip appears to need to get out more if he is sitting there waiting for a trun to arrive :P

To Self Biased

[Jon Shafer]

Studying upper division Comp Sci and History at the same time (and the homework that comes with them) while having a real job outside of all the class and homework means I'm pretty much tacked in the same place all the time except on the weekends. :(

So it's not as though I'm waiting for the turn to come, just that I'm shackled to where I am (which happens to have an internet connection, luckily ;)), and I enjoy refreshing every few minutes to see if there's anything which can distract me from what I'm doing... :zzz:

[self biased]

i concur, moonbars.

[Jon Shafer]

Boo hoo. :(

[Moonbars]

ah, I use www.evernightgame.com for those moments whilst at work.. I have C3C on my work PC but that's just for night shift :)

[snoopy369]

on to theseus, after mail.yahoo.com was down for a half hour almost ;(

[snoopy369]

Resent just in case yahoo ate it ... :)

[Theseus]

Nah, I got it, and sent 3550BC on.

[snoopy369]

okie ...

[Rommel2D]

to Trip

I work an early shift tomorrow and am going straight out of town from there, so I won't be playing any turns until late Sunday...

[Jon Shafer]

Since Rommel is gone now anyways, I took my time on this one.

Sent on to Moon Goon.

[Moonbars]

Onwards to SB

[Rommel2D]

I'm back, and sorely missed I see... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

Well, the turns are flying by in any case.

[Moonbars]

SB emailed me to say that I sent the wrong save.. I had to replay my turn as the save I sent rompted for japans password, but I resent it yesterday at 1:30pm

[self biased]

boing. i should also note that i'm not the only one that uses this computer...

[snoopy369]

on to theseus, a little late, i apologize :)

[Rommel2D]

> Trip

[Rommel2D]

Sorry, just actually sent it now...

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on...

[Moonbars]

onwards.

[snoopy369]

Sent an hour or so ago.

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[snoopy369]

That delay was my fault, btw, I forgot to attach the firs time :)

[Rommel2D]

-> Trip

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on to Moon-Loon, with the taste of shock of getting 2 turns in 48 hours still fresh in my mouth...

[Moonbars]

--->>> onwards to SB

[self biased]

snoop doggeigh

[snoopy369]

to The Theseus

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

--> Trip

[Jon Shafer]

On.

[Moonbars]

ON!

[self biased]

OFF!

[snoopy369]

to Theseus. Sorry for missing the slot, had Poker Night tonight. Should be on tomorrow...

[Rommel2D]

From Theseus this morning, to Trip just now...

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on.

[Moonbars]

Onwards

[self biased]

to infinity!

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

-> Trip

[Jon Shafer]

Sent on.

[Moonbars]

onwards

[snoopy369]

and upwards!

[self biased]

i'm going on vacation this week, and have five games i need covered, preferably by someone i'm not playing against.

Eliminatus Illuminatus (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123246)
Snakegurl's PBEM (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123464)
mercy, severity (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100124)
One Armed Bandits (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122066)
War, what war? (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124068)

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

onto Trip

[Jon Shafer]

Sent to the Moon on a cow.

[Rommel2D]

Trip, how come you had so much trouble playing Iron Civer turns within 24 hours? :cute:

[Jon Shafer]

Well, it is my time slot...

[Rommel2D]

And a broken clock is accurate twice a day... :hmmm:

[Jon Shafer]

And how does that relate... :hmmm:

[Rommel2D]

You can make a slot once every 12 hours but a generic turn takes more than 24...? :rant:

[Jon Shafer]

Uhhh, last turn took me 35 minutes. Turn before that was 9.5 hours (and recieved after my slot when I was asleep). Before that was 27 minutes. Before that was 41 minutes. Before that was 44. Before that was 2 hours and 40 minutes.

So what's this talk about 24 hours... :hmmm:

[Rommel2D]

Back in the Iron Civer D game when you were 'purple carded' for missing the 24hr window three times in a row. That doesn't seem to fit with your current MO... :)

[Jon Shafer]

I didn't have a stable internet connection, so sue me...

[Moonbars]

Turn was sent to SB at 6:30AM GMT this morning (received at 6:15ish)

[Paddy]

Moonbars

my apologises for not logging in sooner

I am standing in for SB for a week

please send the save to me at:

paddythescot ATPARTY vtown DOTPARTY com DOTPARTY au

[Paddy]

thanks Moonbars

3250bc to SnoopCat :)

[snoopy369]

Woot, actually got one in my time slot ;) Sent on to Theseus.

[Theseus]

Turn sent... how's that for time slot? ;)

[self biased]

turn sent. this will be my last turn until november third, unless a replacement is found.

[snoopy369]

* pokes self biased ... you found a replacement already, as far as I can tell ... :)

[Rommel2D]

Tripward

Originally posted by Trip
I didn't have a stable internet connection, so sue me...

How much are you worth? :p

[Jon Shafer]

Qwest thought I moved out and it took 3 weeks to get them to convince them I hadn't.

Sent.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by self biased
turn sent. this will be my last turn until november third, unless a replacement is found.

/me enters the twilight zone

[Jon Shafer]

You are obsessed with PBEM games, I swear...

[Rommel2D]

Ah, it's all good... :)

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Trip
You are obsessed with PBEM games, I swear...

not quite sure what ya mean old chap :D

[Moonbars]

Onwards. Obsession is such a strong word. Hyperactive might be better!

[Paddy]

hahahaha

well the Missus calls me an addict - not quite sure what she means at all :D

then she has had to put up with civ for many many years now

3200 to SnoopCat :)

[snoopy369]

2 slots in a row ... am I dreaming?

Perhaps I am ... then i'm going to be late for work ... sigh.

On to theseus

[Theseus]

Onward... snoop's dreams continue :)

[Jon Shafer]

Recieved a few hours ago, but I didn't bother to check until now since the sending wasn't posted...

Sent on to the Moonhead.

[Moonbars]

onwards.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Trip
Recieved a few hours ago, but I didn't bother to check until now since the sending wasn't posted...

Sent on to the Moonhead.

:(

No save during my slot :(

[Paddy]

sorry about that

I believe that I am no where near the times SB was at

something about timezones :D

3150bc to SnoopCat

[snoopy369]

Not your fault paddy, it was a certain someone before you who doesn't know how to check his own email ;)

Sent on.

You're actually 3 for 3, assuming you get the save before your timeslot. 4-6 "US eastern time" (GMT-5 or something) which basically means what, 6 to 8 your time? (both sides of the AM and PM) That's probably perfect for you i'd think :)

[Paddy]

yeah they are pretty good times :)

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Not your fault paddy, it was a certain someone before you who doesn't know how to check his own email ;)
Considering the only use I have for that particular email account is PBEM turns, and considering that the sending of all turns are required to be posted, I don't think I'm the one to blame here...

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Trip
Considering the only use I have for that particular email account is PBEM turns, and considering that the sending of all turns are required to be posted, I don't think I'm the one to blame here...
Sorry, wasn't aware it was required. Next time I'll wait until after work so I have time to do the turn and the post... :rolleyes:

I don't remember mentioning send posts at all, but the basic idea would be to check for a turn as late as possible in your slot, then post here ridiculing the player who missed their slot... ;)

[Jon Shafer]

We are going by Iron Civer rules, which requires it, do they not?

[snoopy369]

As far as I'm concerned, you should post, but sometimes people forget or don't have time, and I'd rather you play a turn and not post than not play. I'd expect everyone to check once at the beginning of their slot, and at least once later in their slot, for a turn, even if nothing is posted.

That's what keeps this sort of game working on clockwork - each and every one of us trying to help things along as best we can. :)

[Jon Shafer]

Oh well, nothing lost. Well, except a couple hours. ;)

At least the game is moving faster now.

[snoopy369]

Yep :) I highly doubt anybody'd have said anything three days ago ... ;)

[Rommel2D]

The Iron Civer 'rules' state that turn posts are "expected". An occasional lapse due to technical or schedule problems shouldn't cause trouble, as long as the turn makes it out...

The IC rules are specific to the tournament and only enforceable if there is a moderator anyway. Non-tournament games are supposed to refer to the Etiquette and Exploit list (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2908175#post2908175), which is meant to be a mutual agreement on how the game should be played 'inside the save', and has nothing to do with meta-rules about set-up or passing on the save...

[Moonbars]

FIGHT!!

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Rommel2D]

Trippin...

[Jon Shafer]

Sent.