Crawler usage

[-SafaN-]

Hey i'm new to smac, and come from playing the civ series. I'm bot really good but try to stand in the third highest dif. I had a question about crawlers and the morganites in the general.

It seems that most peeps here think crawlers are the ultimate thing, but i have still some difficulties understanding them.

If u space your cities 1 apart then what places u have to crawl? or is the idea to set on each spot three crawlers and then making only specialists in the city?

I understand there is a trick with SP and crawlers to, is it like building a normal crawler, moving to the city of the SP then upgrade with heaviest armor and expensive abilities using cash and then trading it in for the SP?

With the unit designing: for defending does the weapon matter? This is probably already asked 100000000 times sorry.

That is it for now i think
thanks for answering Cya
SafaN

[GeoModder]

Ah, a country mate!! :b:

Some answers on your questions:
Yes, in 1 tile base spread crawlers are supposed to provide the food, minerals and energy for your citizens, which are transformed to specialists then.
A crawler can only crawl <i>one</i> thing only, and only <i>one</i> crawler can work on a tile. So when using this technique it is best to terraform your crawled tiles that they produce the most as possible from one commodity, and neglect the other two.
For SP rushing, the turn <i>before</i> you move a crawler back to the producing base upgrade it to the highest payable armour you have, and set it back to work. Next turn it moves intown and helps the SP production. Alternatively you can do the same with 'normal' crawlers off course when low in cash.

[Skanky Burns]

Here is an example of an ICS city. I don't have the tech for sats yet, so I have to make do with what the city itself can produce.

[Skanky Burns]

While the cities themselves suck, you can fit so many more of them in and together they are better than large cities that you can't reach until very late-game. :)

[Jamski]

Skanky - is there any reason your bases are building TREE FARMS, when they are crawling condensor/farms and working boreholes???

The +50% Econ? You're paying 3ecs/turn to get back 3.5ecs/turn
The +50% Psych? In size 4 bases?
The ecodamage reduction? Your bases are only making 8-10 minerals...

Just asking ;)

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

Ecodamage I think. My capital is attempting to build every secret project it can, so it is crawling many minerals. These minerals in turn are making a mess of my expensive terraforming.
That or I got annoyed with choosing production in 100 bases each and every turn. By building big projects, I get some peace for a while. :relief: :cute:

[Commy]

You people are insane. Although, I guess I can't talk since I suck compared to you guys.

[Enigma_Nova]

A newbie is better than an ignoramus.
Maybe you'd like to learn some tactics by watching a game in progress? I'm setting up an open-information PBEM. :)

Originally posted by -SafaN-
It seems that most peeps here think crawlers are the ultimate thing,
The Ascent to Transcendence is the ultimate thing.
Crawlers don't work without Bases and Formers.
No one unit can win the game for you in SMAC, except perhaps planet busters. :D

If u space your cities 1 apart then what places u have to crawl?
Generally, you'll be crawling any farm/condensor/soil enricher combos and working any boreholes.
You build both as much as possible.

or is the idea to set on each spot three crawlers and then making only specialists in the city?
One crawler per square is the maximum the game would allow.

I understand there is a trick with SP and crawlers to, is it like building a normal crawler, moving to the city of the SP then upgrade with heaviest armor and expensive abilities using cash and then trading it in for the SP?
Usually you trade multiple crawlers for the SP.
Aside from that, this is the crawler upgrade trick and it works quite well.

With the unit designing: for defending does the weapon matter?
If you're using it as a meatshield, no - but you'd better have units to counter-attack with!

[Jamski]

That or I got annoyed with choosing production in 100 bases each and every turn. By building big projects, I get some peace for a while.

This is why playing SMAC at the highest level is a test of stamina, not skill. Do you have the raw willpower to make yourself check every base, every turn?

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

Pshht, that's nothing.
Checking these Fora is where the willpower is involved.
Seeing whether the turn's in, or scavenging for new players/tactics is what takes it out of ya.
Gimme 6 hour turns any time. :)

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Jamski
This is why playing SMAC at the highest level is a test of stamina, not skill. Do you have the raw willpower to make yourself check every base, every turn?

-Jam

To my credit, I was checking bases each turn before ending the turn. With production choosing at the beginning of each turn though I was checking most bases twice.

Now that I think about it, I could probably just hold down enter at the start of the turn, get rid of all those damned popups asking what they should build next and just jump straight into the turn. Then at the end of the turn I could go through and change the production as I checked each base.

Posting here is what I do for fun. :)

[Dis]

I still can't see crawling squares your own city workers can work.

Aside from rocky mine squares of course. Or putting a borehole on flat arid land.

[Chaos Theory]

Good tiles to crawl:
Mines (presumably high-mineral-output mines)
Condensor-farms (with optional soil enricher)
Solar panels/echelon mirrors
Forests, if you have nothing better to crawl and cannot work them
Boreholes, before lifting energy restrictions (suppose you started near the borehole cluster, or got the WP)
Rocky or rolling unimproved tiles, if you really have nothing better to crawl and have the extra crawlers
Rainy tiles (or fungus, if you are Deirdre) if you don't have enough condensor-farms

Bad tiles to crawl:
Boreholes, after energy restrictions are lifted
Forests, later in the game
Anything that produces 1 food, for nutrients

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Dissident
I still can't see crawling squares your own city workers can work.

Aside from rocky mine squares of course. Or putting a borehole on flat arid land.

Let's say you crawl a square that produces only one resource, such as a condensor/farm. By crawling the square, you can use the worker for another task. This task could be working another square such as a forest, which produces a more balanced mix of resources and is thus less suitable for crawling.

However, it's very common to use the freed worker as a specialist. Some advantages of specialists:


They don't riot. By keeping most of your population in a city as specialists, you need very little in the way of drone control.
They produce energy (duh!). A size 5 city can support librarians and technicians which produce 3 points of energy of one type. The specialists improve as the game goes on, and the best specialists, transcends, produce as much as six points of useful energy (and some psych to boot).
The energy from the specialists is multiplied by the base facilities.
The specialist energy is immune to inefficiency. This is a huge thing at some cases, and it's very useful for someone like Yang.
Specialists are very flexible. You can change the allocation from labs to economy or psych by changing your specialists. You can do this in a base by base basis, and you don't suffer any penalties like you would if you tinkered with the slider with less than optimal efficiency.


One negative thing about using specialists is that their energy does not count for commerce. So if you get a lot of commerce income, you might want to try to get more energy the traditional way from workers.

[Jamski]

Now that I think about it, I could probably just hold down enter at the start of the turn, get rid of all those damned popups asking what they should build next and just jump straight into the turn. Then at the end of the turn I could go through and change the production as I checked each base.

Or even turn off all those damn popups :idea:

I still can't see crawling squares your own city workers can work. Aside from rocky mine squares of course. Or putting a borehole on flat arid land.

Because you are increasing the total worked tiles of the base faster than through population growth. You can still have that worker on a tile, but you can have the crawler on another tiles as well. See?

-Jam

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Dissident
I still can't see crawling squares your own city workers can work.

Aside from rocky mine squares of course. Or putting a borehole on flat arid land.

If you have no overlap in your bases you will have 20 workable tiles in a base radius. Unless you use pod booming you will only be able to work 18 of those max (until hab domes become available in the late game) and then only if you are playing Lal and built the AV. So even in this instance you will have two tiles in the base radius that you can't work. And it will take quite some time to get to this point as well, you have to research hab complexes and almost certainly lift nutrient restrictions as well, and then either pop boom or slowly grow your way to the top.

By building crawlers you can take advantage of that land near your base much more quickly. You don't have to painstakingly march your formers and then your crawlers to the frontier either, they can instead improve and then exploit those nearby tiles much more quickly. Finally you can much more easily defend your crawler from harm with your garrison, and if a critical crawler is slain, you can always shuffle a worker to the tile until you can replace it.

Building crawlers is like pop booming via your production queue. By spamming forests in the early game and building crawlers to work them you can quickly bootstrap your industry and get all of those tiles working for you while you wait for your technology to put you into position to pop boom more conventionally. If your faction cannot do this (pop boom) easily, then crawlers are even more critical.

[Dis]

but using the above map, the bases are so close together, with the crawlers you will have citizens with no squares to work.

[binTravkin]

I think Borehole is wasted if its worked by Crawler instead of worker - crawler halves its production!

Others -
Forest -> half wasted when u get FM - 2 mins & 2 ecs r equal - not so expensive as Borehole
Farm/condenser -> best use for a crawler!
Mine -> Who the fk builds mines??? :confused: Only squares where mines are profitable are rocky+minbonus & volcano
Volcano+mine-> crawler wastes 2 ecs (can live with that)
Rocky+minbonus+mine -> crawler wastes 1 ec (good!)

Are there any other types of terraforming on land beside those mentioned?

Farm+solar??
:hmmm:
Maybe if you get rainy area on high ground (but its very unlikely)

Best layout is 1 square between bases & bases nicely ordered as Skanky shows
BUT: I NEVER use crawlers to work those 3 squares!
I need 3 workers to have GA!
Those 3 squares are often:
1hole
2farmcondensers

Which yields:
8nuts
6mins
6ecs
at minimum

+
3nuts
2mins
1+ecs
from base

is summary:
11 nuts
8mins
7+ecs


I usually play Morgan, so my bases are at 4 pop, all GA & only few facilites in them - good income form them!

[Sikander]

Mines are quicker to build than boreholes, and no wastage if you crawl them. Still I don't tend to build all that many of them, and of course only on rocky tiles.

[Enigma_Nova]

If I ever have to road through a rocky tile and I'm short on former time, I stack a mine on it.
Usually I'd borehole the thing or level it and farm/condensor it, but mines take only 8 turns as opposed to the above.

A mine on a mins bonus is a beautiful thing - 7 minerals before restrictions are lifted. :b:

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
If I ever have to road through a rocky tile and I'm short on former time, I stack a mine on it.
Usually I'd borehole the thing or level it and farm/condensor it, but mines take only 8 turns as opposed to the above.

A mine on a mins bonus is a beautiful thing - 7 minerals before restrictions are lifted. :b:

Yea, I had one in my last game in my fourth base, and it worked out very nicely to snag the WP.

[Cosmic]

I wasnt an user of specialists myself but after reading about people experiences here I started to look at then and I have to admit that its really interesting!... this game offer so many prossibilities, thats because I love it! :p