Thief III Goes Gold!

[Skanky Burns]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37473

Quoth Skanky:
Hooray!

Once again we can become Garrett, he who steals from the rich and gives to himself. The traditional favourites seem to be in - flashbombs, blackjack, lockpicks, but additionally players will be able to get their hands on (or in) climbing gloves as well, adding more possibilities to gameplay. The mechanical eye also returns, which is great news.

The voice of Garrett will be done by the same voice actor of the original, also great news. And finally, news that has me - dare I say it - almost optimistic about this release:
It is by a different team to the one that made Deus Ex 2. :relief:

[alva]

Even spamming that forum eh. :shame: :D ;)

Maybe I'll give the demo a shot.

[alva]

Just Read that the EU release should be somewhere around the 10th of june.

US 25th of may.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=17699&mode=thread&order=0

[Skanky Burns]

Even better, we can have the game peer-reviewed and still (potentially) buy it the day its released. :D
And yes, their forum is now ever so slightly more Skanky than before. :cool:

[Zkribbler]

In stores on May 26 in the U.S. Here's a site to get trailers, screenshots, wallpaper, screen savers, etc.Thief 3 Site (http://www.thief3.com/)

"What's locked can be unlocked;
What's hidden can be found;
What's yours can be mine."

...Garrett. :cool: :b:

[General Ludd]

It's gold?

I didn't even know it had started production.

[alva]

It just started production...hence the going gold.:cute: ;)

[Skanky Burns]

one of the cool new things in the game is a persistent economy (rather than the per mission loadouts of earlier Thief games)
That seems interesting.

Deadly Shadows provides a totally Thiefy experience. It's a little (and I DO mean a LITTLE!) more "actiony" than the first two games in the series... If you get into combat, you have a better chance of surviving and some of our QA guys are proficient enough with a bow and broadhead arrows that it sometimes looks like a medieval fps!
:q:

[Traianvs]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

\o/!!

[DrSpike]

I find it suspicious how much Skanky likes this series. ;)

Hehe Thief2 was great, and I've been meaning to play the original for ages. I just hope they don't kill it like the Deus Ex sequel.

[Skanky Burns]

I like Thief 1 much better than Thief 2, although the original didn't let you use a mechanical eye. Superb storyline, well designed missions. :love:

[Skanky Burns]

:lol:

I got a PM from one of the mods there regarding my location (same as I use here) and my name itself. :lol: :shame:
Oh well, will see what happens with that.

[FrustratedPoet]

"Skanky" is a naughty word now? Your repuation is spreading, dude. :D

[Rasputin]

skanky always been a BAD word !!!!!

[DrSpike]

I'm surprised they let you use Skanky in your location field at all. :cute:

[Skanky Burns]

Well they didn't. I guess I'll have to change my location to "Australian Bastard". :cute:

[DrSpike]

That's even worse! :)

[Skanky Burns]

:lol:

Part of a review by some lucky person:
Because I'm a terrible thief, I got caught by a wandering maiden. She screamed and ran to get a guard for help. The guard brought a torch (mobile light source! A thief's worst enemy) and remarked "Ooh, he is gone! He must have seen me go get help" to which the guard scoffed "Well, he's not gonna stand around and wait for us is he??" It was pretty cool.
Also reported was getting into combat put a serious dent into our reviewer's health, so it seems perhaps the game hasn't been console-ized after all.

[Skanky Burns]

Also, lockpicking has taken on a whole new life. Rather than pulling out a lockpick and just using it while you scan around checking for guards, the new version actually demands your attention. The actual system is difficult to describe (at least, I have yet to read a coherent description of it) but as with true thieving, you need to pay attention to the lock you are picking and rely on sounds only to warn you of approaching guards or the like. More immersion. :b:

[DrSpike]

Mission 4: either sneak around stealthily to grab the loot, or pick up this UZI and mow down every mutherfu**er in a 2 mile radius, whilst spectacularly dodging bullets. :cute:

[alva]

As long as you don't have to find a new job and a house for the maiden this could be good. :cute: ;)

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Also reported was getting into combat put a serious dent into our reviewer's health, so it seems perhaps the game hasn't been console-ized after all.
Yeah, I wasn't all that concerned by the "Medieval FPS" comment -- it's always been possible to kill everybody in the Thief games (playing on normal mode, of course), it's just that few people are able to go that route (especially on expert mode).

[Skanky Burns]

While it has always been possible, it has generally been easier to knock them out, and it has never been easy fighting off multiple guards. In Thief 1 it was possible to ghost most levels (complete them without anyone seeing you), knock everyone in a level out or to kill everyone. In Thief 2 you had some missions where you could not knock certain guards out, some missions where you had to knock at least some of the guards out. Take that to the extreme, they could make missions where you had to kill a certain person which just doesn't sit well with the whole Thief experience.

Not that far-fetched when they want some action moments in the game and the console version is expected to sell more than the PC version.

A whole bunch of Thief videos are available at http://www.bloodofthemartyr.com

There are a number of other controversies going around too.
* Arrows produce a blue trail through the air as opposed to, say, just going through the air normally. This makes the arrow appear to be dropping from the sky. Apparently it can be modded out though.

* Similarly, all loot now glows with an unnatural ghostly blue colour. It too can be modded out.

* Third-person view (nicknamed "cheating mode") is used by default. :q:

* There are no rope arrows. They have been replaced by climbing gloves. I don't see this as being too bad though, considering how buggy rope arrows were in the previous games.

* Smart guards vs stupid guards. On expert difficulty, guards will notice doors you have opened, loot missing, chests opened, etc, and will then investigate. Apparently they will still wave to their fellow guards, even after you have knocked out and moved the person they are waving to.

* Loading zones. In the middle of the maps are loading zones, which work similarly to the way houses do in Morrowind. The loading zone is a misty blue area you walk into where you get the option of going through or staying. If you go through, the other side of the map loads and any guards that were persuing you before are stuck on the other side, ready to resume the chase when you return. A minor positive is there are two loading zones each map, so two different "doors" you can go through from one zone to another.
* No burricks :(

* Editing tools are not being released yet, although there is a petition (http://www.thiefpetition.com/) to get the to release it. Sign it if you can. :)

* Someone was foolish enough to ask about a collector's edition. Aaarrrrrgggghh!!!


Exciting times. :)

[Kassiopeia]

* Loading zones. In the middle of the maps are loading zones, which work similarly to the way houses do in Morrowind. The loading zone is a misty blue area you walk into where you get the option of going through or staying. If you go through, the other side of the map loads and any guards that were persuing you before are stuck on the other side, ready to resume the chase when you return. A minor positive is there are two loading zones each map, so two different "doors" you can go through from one zone to another.

That's like what happened with DX:IW, sadly. Invisible War had incredibly small areas that had to be loaded every time you entered them, which got to the point of being ridiculous pretty quickly. This was AFAIK to conform to the limitations of console hardware.

This doesn't bode too well for the size or the playbility of the maps in Thief, if there are only two areas per map. Also, you'd think the whole "leave area, guard won't follow" trick/bug would be dealt with by now. Why can't the guard come to the other zone? It shouldn't be impossible to do, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Skanky Burns]

Agreed, although initial reports say that the map areas are of decent size, and one could spend 3 or more hours on the first mission looking for all the (brightly glowing) loot in the maps. The outdoors Morrowind approach would have been much better imo.

[DrSpike]

I'm surprised about those comments Kassi. Halo had a great loading system for the PC port, despite the limitations with the X-Box version. Why should these other games be limited?

[Skanky Burns]

I've been watching the movies from the site I linked to above. I now have a renewed hate for 3rd person mode, and for the arrow trails.

You aim your bow. It zooms in your aim so you can't help but hit. The arrow shoots and hits its target. The blue arrow trail then comes from the sky, hitting a guard in the head as he is already dying. Oh, so my arrow went right where I aimed it? Gee, thanks for telling me.

Lockpicking seems interesting, movie 5 from 4/21 seems to give quite a good example of it, although I must remember not to play movies that are still downloading.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I'm surprised about those comments Kassi. Halo had a great loading system for the PC port, despite the limitations with the X-Box version. Why should these other games be limited?

I've played both Halo's and Invisible War's PC ports, and Halo did this well, but Invisible War did not. Halo's portions were actually big, and it was of no consequence really whether or not the enemies from the earlier one "carried over" to the next one, but in IW one section would be a few dozen meters of a street. It got really annoying on the long run. And, quite simply, Thief III is coming from the same company that brought us IW - albeit from a different crew, I'm pessimistic nonetheless.

Of course, Halo's good port can be also explained by the fact that it was made for, what, a year after the X-Box version had been released. With IW the PC port was treated like the bastard child of the console version.

[DrSpike]

Hmm, shame. I guess the fact that it can be done well is beside the point. I hope Thief3 doesn't suffer from those problems.

[Skanky Burns]

The PC game will ship in 1st person by default.

The DS plot is an entirely new story in the same setting (The City), starring Garrett, and written chiefly by Terri Brosius. The plot won't require you to have played previous Thief titles, as par usual, but there are references here and there. It does indeed take place after the events of the Metal Age, as well. Suffice it to say, he largely defined Thief's aural presence, and he's iterating on (and making improvements to) that now-classic style in T:DS.

Reading books and notes pauses the game, so guards don't sneak up on you while you are busy reading. "You won't have to deal with that infuriating resolution-switch effect from the old days, however."

[Skanky Burns]

* Water is not traversable, however there are puddles or similar you can splash through.

* The shortsword has been replaced with a dagger.

Why water was removed from the game. :cute:

[ravagon]

:lol:

Gameswarehouse is still forecasting the 25th of next month for a release here. I guess that should give a fair amount of time for feedback from our American guin.., erm, friends? :)

[DrSpike]

Hehe true, but I always find myself tempted when games are released much earlier than I can buy them here. :)

[Skanky Burns]

I've been checking twice daily to see if it has been released by "other means". So far no sign. Alas.

[DrSpike]

Given the nature of the game the irony is exquisite. ;)

[duke o' york]

Once again we can become Skanky, who downloads from the rich and gives to himself! :lol::b:

[Skanky Burns]

Tis rather appropriate.

But given the reviews I have read so far, this game seems it will be a keeper (no pun intended), so I'll most likely be buying it whenever it does get to Australia.

Besides, if enough of the PC version gets sold, Eidos said they will release editing tools so once again we can make fan missions for the game. For the previous two games, it is said that some of the fan missions are even better than the original missions. Considering the standard the original missions set, that is quite a feat.

[duke o' york]

Skanky Burns, Skanky Burns, spamming in your thread.
Skanky Burns, Skanky Burns, his avatar's hair is red.
Downloads from the rich and keeps to himself,
Skanky Burns, Skanky Burns!

:p

[DrSpike]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Should end in 3 Skanky Burns' though right?

[ravagon]

Just as long as there's no 'Skanky Burns : Men in tights' :scared:

[Skanky Burns]

But back on topic, there is Thiefage to be had.

A very interesting read can be found in this article (http://www.thief-thecircle.com/thief3/danspreview.asp). Unlike most other game reviewers, this one actually played Thief 3 on expert mode from the very first moment in the game.

And for the lazy, I found this passage particularly funny:
I did not get a chance to test out the oil flasks, but we’ve seen them at work in other gameplay vids. They create oil slicks which causes guards to fall down. If you shoot a fire arrow at it, it becomes a burning oil slick, which will roast the guard as they are slipping and falling. I'm told they produce funny results when used on stairways.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
A whole bunch of Thief videos are available at http://www.bloodofthemartyr.com

The movie from Movies from 4/22, Movie 1 features a cut-scene from the game, rather than watching a reviewer playing the game (in 3rd person mode). If you only bother downloading one movie, make it this one.
Can you say atmosphere? Hell, I even rank this cut-scene above some of the ones from the original. Yes, it is that good.

[Sandman]

It's rather good to hear that it's relatively free of bugs... although I've heard that before.

[ravagon]

http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=017047

It's sounding pretty good so far. I particularly like this bit ...

All that great guard/pedestrian banter is here as well. Not only that, but they've also scripted up some great dialogs for when you interact with the environment. Case in point... I opened up a door, and some old man walked up to it, stopped in front of it, and said "Oh god, WHO left this door open?". Then he spun around and started just laying into this guard who was standing down the hall- "You useless sack of garbage, why are you CONSTANTLY leaving doors open" "It wasn't me! I bet it was Jeff!".


[Edit: Ah bother! The remote linking thingummy is playing up.

http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi and go to the forum thread from there ]

[Skanky Burns]

In this case, a few bugs would be great news.
They coded user-defined difficulty restrictions - things like not killing guards or whatever, but due to lack of testing time shipped with them turned off. The code is there, the code seems to work, but they just didn't manage to get it in in time. So if they need to patch, then you can bet that will be turned on as well.

Alas, its up to Eidos for that decision.

[ravagon]

Heh heh this is great stuff.

Reading everything that you come across and listening to every stranger’s conversation is of endless benefit. At one point, I had Garret break into the room of his landlord and read his journal. In it, he bemoaned the fact that someone was blackmailing him and mentioned the place where he drops off the daily payments. Naturally, I beat the blackmailer to the spot and took the money myself. Another time, I happened to overhear a crooked merchant cutting a deal with another thief, who had the temerity to pose as Garret in order to get the job. I listened to the details, describing the object to be stolen and the place where it was to be dropped, then clubbed the imposter, completed the job, and got the payment.

:b:

I would really like to read the landlord's journal the day after when he has an irate blackmailer on his case.
Personally though, I would've swiped the cash and waited for the blackmailer - shadowed him home, broken in, found his journal and taken over his route. :D

[alva]

Not sure if this was posted before, if not, then I'm sure at least one here will appreciate it. ;)

Gamespy Thief review (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/thief-deadly-shadows/518035p1.html?fromint=1)

[Skanky Burns]

Indeed. :b:

In other news, the game should be arriving in stores all across the US right about now...
:dance:

[DrSpike]

And mysteriously on Skanky's hard drive a few hours later. :cute:

[Skanky Burns]

In a mere matter of months, I will have a fully legal copy to call my own. No further comments will be made on this matter. :good:

[DrSpike]

We all know what "no comment" means. :)

[Skanky Burns]

Hooray, Thief III has now been released!
:dance:

[Skanky Burns]

City Guards caught off-duty.

[DrSpike]

Looks like they were caught doing something else. :)

[Jamski]

We'll see you next year, Skanky :) Have fun!

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

Unfortunately that wasn't a picture I took. :(
Hopefully by the time I get home from work tomorrow...

[Nacht]

I just started playing Thief I. Great game.

Nice to know I'll be able to play all three games in a row :b:

[DrSpike]

Translation:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Unfortunately that wasn't a picture I took. :(
Hopefully my download will be finished by the time I get home from work tomorrow...

;)

[Kassiopeia]

There are a lot of Finnish gamers who have relatives in the US getting the newest games to them posthaste as soon as they are released. It won't be as big this time though, since the release date in Europe is 11th of June. With Invisible War, however, you even had shops importing them completely on their own.

I doubt the former's the case with Skanky, but the latter might be. Expensive stuff, in any case.

:cute:

There's going to be a demo released today, I can hardly wait. Supposed to have the tutorial level and the first actual mission.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by DrSpike
And mysteriously on Skanky's hard drive a few hours later. :cute:

I don't know about Skanky's, but it's mysteriously appearing on mine as we speak. :)

[DrSpike]

Alas, the innocent Ludd is thus corrupted by the foul and evil Skanky, who must be blamed.

yeah mine too :)

[Jamski]

/me condemns such behavior *

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

/me finds this thread ironic.

[DrSpike]

We're the indie team behind Thief4. ;)

[H Tower]

So is poly still slow for all of you since your bandwidth seems to strangely low? ;)

[loinburger]

I just got a copy from Best Buy. I'll report back on it tomorrow, if I'm sober by then.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by H Tower
So is poly still slow for all of you since your bandwidth seems to strangely low? ;)

The demo is rather large, 440 megabytes.

[Skanky Burns]

Speaking of the demo, http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38619
Mirrors for the demo.

[pg]

let's hope this game doesn't need any patches...

Multiple sources tell us that all is not well at Deus Ex & Thief 3 developer ION Storm. Apparently some 20 - 25 people have been laid off at the Eidos owned Austin based developer. That's not all though as Warren Spector is said to be leaving the company as well. If we receive any more details we'll be sure to post them.
Update: Other sites have confirmed with Eidos that people have been let go, though Eidos denies that Spector is going anywhere.
Update 2: More details are coming in. It looks like people leaving/being laid off is just the start of it, as the company is also changing names..and going PS2 development only.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/32037

i also read the game doesn't run on win98 so you've been warned.

[Skanky Burns]

Yeah, the game doesn't run on 98. It have very high hardware requirements anyway, so people whos computer can handle the game are probably running XP anyway. Warren Spector left due to a "difference of opinion". I haven't heard anything about the other layoffs but hopefully the people axed were from the Deus "We can't program to save our lives" Ex team rather than the Thief team. PS2 only doesn't even make sense - Thief III wasn't even made for PS2.

[Skanky Burns]

Apparently one of our enterprising young thieves somehow managed to get himself stuck inside a chest. Taffer. :lol:

[Jamski]

/me is running win98 *

/me cancels his "order" quickly *

Dammit :angry:

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Grey Mouser
In the interests of providing useful information prior to the release of Thief: Deadly Shadows, here are the Official System Requirements:


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS:
WINDOWS 2000/XP (ADMIN RIGHTS REQUIRED)(95/98/ME/NT NOT SUPPORTED!)
INTEL PENTIUM® IV 1.5GHZ (AMD ATHLON XP™ EQUIVALENT)
256MB SYSTEM MEMORY
100% DIRECTX 9 COMPATIBLE SOUND CARD
3GB FREE HARD DISC SPACE
MOUSE AND KEYBOARD
CD-ROM DRIVE REQUIRED
EAX Advanced HD Supported - requires SoundBlaster Audigy range of soundcards.

****LAPTOPS ARE NOT SUPPORTED!****

SUPPORTED GRAPHICS CHIPSETS:
ATI RADEON 8500
ATI RADEON 9 SERIES (9000,9200,9500,9600,9700,9800)
NVIDIA GEFORCE 3TI SERIES
NVIDIA GEFORCE 4TI SERIES
NVIDIA GEFORCE FX SERIES
NVIDIA GEFORCE 6 SERIES
GRAPHICS CARD MUST SUPPORT PIXEL SHADER 1.1!

UNSUPPORTED GRAPHICS CHIPSETS:
NVIDIA GEFORCE 4MX (460, 440 & 420)
NVIDIA GEFORCE 4 GO
NVIDIA QUADRO FX GO
NVIDIA GEFORCE NFORCE2 & NFORCE3


Note that although it is not specifically stated for the specs, the game will not run on any current on-board video chips, such as 'Intel Extreme Graphics' and whatnot. Just so you know.

[alva]

Wow, that's an awfully lot of people out of the picture, not a very good move IMHO.

[Jamski]

Very poor move, I'd say. They could EASILY provide options for lower specs, especially with the graphics. Nearly every game has a whole range of graphics and sound options these days. *sigh*

No Thief III for me :(

This is the first game I see that won't run on '98.

-Jam

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Jamski
* Jamski is running win98 *

* Jamski cancels his "order" quickly *

Dammit :angry:

-Jam

Why Why WHY would anyone with a modicum of computer skill be running win98? Why?

Better to update your OS than remove your 'order'!

:D

[General Ludd]

Are you sure it won't run on win98? Just because it is unsupported does not neccisarily mean it is unusable.

[Jamski]

I run win98 because I also run a lot of old games. I find its the best/most stable OS for my purposes anyway. My specs are at least twice* the minimum requirements for Thief 3, but since I'm running the "wrong" OS, they won't get my "money"

I can't play MoM, Colonisation, SMAC or the Gold Box games properly with XP - and that alone is my reason to stay with win98. Like I said, this is the first programm I've seen that won't work with my beautiful OS :mad:

My next box will have XP though, I'm sure of it.

-Jam

*Except I don't have 2 keyboards or two mice connected. That would be silly.

[pg]

pretty sure it won't run at all from what i've read.

skanky - care to elaborate on what the difference of opinion was?

[DrSpike]

The game might run in win98 though, so you shouldn't cancel your 'order' - they just don't guarantee it.

Plus most of those old games would probably run in Win2k, which I use. If I want to play a game that doesn't I have an old machine I can hook up in minutes. :)

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Jamski

I can't play MoM, Colonisation, SMAC or the Gold Box games properly with XP

You can with an emulator like DosBox

[Skanky Burns]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38701
Any relation, Jam? ;)
It doesn't seem like the game will even run. A few have mentioned that the demo wouldn't work on 98.

pg: They are going out of their way to avoid commenting on the situation.

[DrSpike]

It's good. Scare the Sunday gamers with their aging P3's and old style Athlons away, so that the game can be played by, and focused upon, the gaming core. :)

[Skanky Burns]

Elitist. :p

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Elitist. :p

Thanks. :)

[Jamski]

I'll have to get that crappy new OS one day then :(

Still, the crappy old one has served me well ;)

And Doc - everyone knows that hardcore gamers run windows 3.1 Only FPS 1337 kids use newer OS's :p

-Jam

[DrSpike]

You can use what you like. The fact that win98 is slower, less stable, and uses many of the nice things that your machine undoubtedly has very very badly indeed should of course not sway you. :)

[Jamski]

Yeah, but installing XP will be such a pain... I always considered it... hell, I even have a legal copy downstairs I could install... but there's no way of "upgrading" '98 is there? I'd have to format and start over, and thats a PITA. Just backing up all my crap again... arrgh.

And then not being able to play SMAC, probably... *scared* - yes some people get it to work with the "XP patch" but others are screwed...

-Jam

[General Ludd]

You can upgrade from 98. I think it even backs up most of the files in case you want to revert, and carries over as many of the settings as possible.

[Jamski]

Really?

Tell me more... if I can just stick the CD in and press "upgrade from win98" that would be peachy.

-Jam

[Zkribbler]

Crud...the download demo server is busy & I can't log on. :(

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Jamski
Really?

Tell me more... if I can just stick the CD in and press "upgrade from win98" that would be peachy.

-Jam

It was a long time ago that I did it, so I don't really remember. I think you just put the CD in run the isntall program from windows 98 and it will give you the option of 'upgrading'. You still have to go through the usual process of installing an OS like updating all your drivers and stuff, however.

[DrSpike]

It's less hassle in the long run anyway since win98 needs to be reinstalled more often. People that sit there forever with one install getting more and more sluggish deserve their fate. :)

[General Ludd]

I don't think I've installed XP from scratch, actually. I'm pretty sure I'm running on the upgrade I did from 98 almost two years ago. I always reinstalled 98 every 4-6 months, though.

[DrSpike]

Precisely. Win2k and XP are much better in that regard, though I still do an annual wipe and reinstall because I'm fussy like that. :)

[Jamski]

Ah... I've been happily formatting the HD and re-installing twice a year...

Arrgh...

But what if SMAC fails to load?

(Sorry, threadjacked and completely changed to "Jamski and XP")

-Jam

[DrSpike]

So you reinstall twice a year but didn't want the hassle of upgrading to XP? That doesn't make sense at all.

[DrSpike]

Also Jam, if you are really worried you can leave your Win98 install and do a dual boot system. Best of both worlds.

[Jamski]

True... I'm just such a lazy arse though. I wanted to make a dual boot-disk system, with a hard switch to select which HD to boot from...

/me looks at the heap of components on his floor *

...that met the same end as my "improved cooling" project...

The other thing that puts me off is that my XP CD is a german version...

Why do I feel I'm looking for excuses?

-Jam

[alva]

You can upgrade 98 with no problem what so ever, like you said, insert the CD (don't forget your bios settings) and that's it.

My version here is an upgrade over ME and funnily enough I have trouble than with a clean install, which is a hassle (well, for me it is ;), you can't get XP to install from DOS so...(unless you manually copy some files but I never quite figured it out. ))

As Spike said why not go with a dual boot?

Btw, are you sure you can't run those old games in 98 compatibility mode? It will slow down your system but that shouldn't be too bad considering your spec and the game requirements.

Remembert that 98 is no longer supported by MS.

[Skanky Burns]

SMAC works under XP.
While Thief is still unavailable in Australia I'll let the conversation be slightly off topic (only slightly ;) ) but as soon as we can play the game we will be talking about it in this thread. :doitnow!:

The latest controversy is lockpicking. There are many people compaining that it is too hard, with one lock taking them over 20 minutes to pick. Then there are people at the other end of the scale who are complaining that lockpicking is too easy. They can crack 6-tumbler locks in a matter of seconds due to the fact that the "sweet spots" on the lock are almost always N/S/E/W directions. Using a keyboard, you can get the picks to the right spot very very quickly, which I must say doesn't give much challenge at all.
But of course I want to try it myself before passing judgement.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Jamski
True... I'm just such a lazy arse though. I wanted to make a dual boot-disk system, with a hard switch to select which HD to boot from...

* Jamski looks at the heap of components on his floor *

...that met the same end as my "improved cooling" project...

The other thing that puts me off is that my XP CD is a german version...

Why do I feel I'm looking for excuses?

-Jam

You don't need to make it that complicated. Install XP/Win2k without reformatting, then when it gets to the stage where it will boot into an OS you'll get a prompt asking you which OS to use. It defaults to the one you used last and uses that after 3 seconds or so, so there is absolutely no hassle. :)

[Traianvs]

dual boot system fooks your pc performance a bit

[Traianvs]

besides why don't you get a crap p300 with win98 for $75 and play your old games on that piece of junk, and play your new games on the leet pc, win winXP...

my win98 crashed at least 10x a day, and at least 3 blue screens a day too!

[Jamski]

My Win98 has crashed so few times that I can count them...

Probably my best plan is to set up a dual boot. Yes, that can be my little task for the future...

But wait... what drivers do I need? Win98 and XP drivers at the same time? I assume I'll get a dual registry with the dual boot...

Hmmm....

But this is way off topic.

-Jam

[alva]

Yes to the different registery, I do advice to put them on different drives.
Always a good thing to do is to put your OS first program on the drive where it is fastest.
W98 has gotten better over the years it was crap at first though, still better the w95, I can't recall the amount of times i had to instal that one.

[DrSpike]

You don't need them on different drives. They are self contained installs. Obviously if you install software of one OS it will only 'see' it in that OS, but the way to do this is to keep Win98 just for old games, and use XP for everything else. Both operating systems will require appropriate drivers.

There is no performance loss.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by alva
My version here is an upgrade over ME and funnily enough I have trouble than with a clean install, which is a hassle (well, for me it is ;), you can't get XP to install from DOS so...(unless you manually copy some files but I never quite figured it out. ))



Whilst we are on the (off) topic this shouldn't be a problem either. Obviously you can't use the standard setup .exe, but there is one you can use in DOS for win2k, and it's the same I'm sure for WinXP. Think about it..........otherwise you wouldn't be able to use the OS without one to upgrade from, which is silly.

Even further OT I don't like upgrading windows at all. A clean install is always the way forward, and if you want win98 then dual boot. Upgrading leaves everything in a right mess.

[Zkribbler]

And the download demo server is still busy. :mad:

[alva]

Try this one
http://games.telenet.be/
http://games.telenet.be/demos.php

And just to show off.
I would have taken me almost 6 full minutes :angry: :cool:

Ahh, night time surfing...:love:

[Chaunk]

:eek:

Is that a download rate of 1203KB/sec? As in, over a megabyte a second?

I want some broaderband :(

[alva]

Normaly I don't get this speed, no. I was surprised myself, that why I let it run for awhile to see if it would go down. Normal speed is about 500 to 700 KB.

Hmm, I guess I have to download it completely just for the heck of it. :)

[alva]

Speed went down somewhat but was still acceptable. :cute:
I guess I have to install it too eh..;)

[Skanky Burns]

You don't have to install this Thief demo, but of course we would be required (by law) to kill you. :)

[Skanky Burns]

My demo is arriving at ~50k/s. :(

[DrSpike]

My demo has stopped coming down now. I need to wait until more people have got the complete demo. :)

[Jamski]

Is that the 3-disc extended demo? :cute:

I'm going to wait on this XP issue, before I spend half a day mucking about just so I can play Thief 3. First I want to know if its actually worth my time.

-Jam

[DrSpike]

Yeah it's extended all right. :)

[General Ludd]

:nono: You guys are slacking.



I'm installing the latest video drivers and geting eady to play now.

[Skanky Burns]

I was talking about the real demo. My extended demo is lucky to go above 2k/s alas. Still, I've gotten 100%, 75% and 14%.

But to the game itself: The game r0x0rZ!!!!!!

Loot glint make the loot hunt easier, but you still have to be awake to take notice of it. In the first actual mission, I got 95% of all loot, blackjacked all the guards except Benny (the drunk one) and made it out again without getting injured. I got spotted once.

There are of course some nitpicks. Garrett seems to be wearing very stiff pants this time - movement takes time. Leaning is all but useless, it exposes you, takes longer than just sidestepping a quick peak does and doesn't always return you back to the shadow you left. The arrow trail just has to go. Lame as. The sound sometimes stutters, but I think that may be due to my playing the game with fairly high details in 1280x1024. Dropping things for some reason involves putting your arm out horizontally and then letting go of the item - I would have thought a master thief would have discovered a quieter way of putting things down by now.

Finally run is on by default. Why? My left pinky is tired due to holding the ctrl button down for 2 hours. :(

Garretts voice is :b: as are the guards (same voice actors as the previous). Sneaking is fun as well, just keep a column or similar between you and the guard and you are safe. Unless you bump something and make a noise. Or another person walks into the room. Or the guard suddenly notices some missing loot and starts to hunt for you. :scared:
Great game. :b: :D

"Theres no-one here. They are all at the pub. Except for me." - Benny

[General Ludd]

My only complaint so far - There doesn't seem to be a way of restarting a mission or saving during the briefing.

[Skanky Burns]

And already there are tips to configure the game for a much more enjoyable playing experience.

Binding a walk key just like in the originals:
Here's how to make "S" bind to "Walk forward" and "W" to "Run forward" (plus change "X" to "Walk backwards" and "F" to "Crouch") :

Open "C:My Documents\Thief - Deadly Shadows\SaveGames\User Options\options.ini"

The key is the "MoveForwardBackward" command.
By default, the keys are set as follows:

S=MoveForwardBackward -1.000000
W=MoveForwardBackward 1.000000

To match the original Thief bindings, do

S=MoveForwardBackward 0.500000
W=MoveForwardBackward 1.000000
X=MoveForwardBackward -1.000000

And since "X" was the default "Crouch" key, you'll probably need to change F to
F=Crouch

The animations do work correctly. However, the "Creep" and "Walk" keys ("Ctrl" and "Shift" by default) are a little odd: they do not multiply the speed by a fraction, they directly change it to a new one.
So with the new bindings, "S" and "Shift+S" are exactly the same speed (1/2 speed), and "Ctrl+S" and "Ctrl+W" are both the same speed (1/3 speed).

Leaning:
In T3PlayerAnims.ini
change all [LeanLeftStart] through [LeanRightEndCrouching]
change:
Speed=1
to:
Speed=2.5

Smaller font size:
If you think the font size for your objectives and the "Tips" on the loading screens are grotesquely huge, you can change them. Open DEFAULT.INI and change this line under the [FontMappings] header:

'Papyrus14__tp=Papyrus_21,0.81,0.80' to
'Papyrus14__tp=Papyrus_21,0.61,0.80'

Changing 0.81 to 0.61 (or any other decimal value) will scale down the font size. This will affect load screen tips, your notes and objectives, the help screen you get from right-clicking on your equipment, and confirmation dialogue boxes ("Are you sure you want to quit?").

Modifying Papyrus12 affects the size of dialogue subtitles and the size of the text that appears below your item or weapon icon when you select it:

'Papyrus12__tp=Papyrus_21,0.61,0.80' to
'Papyrus12__tp=Papyrus_21,0.50,0.80', for example.

Removing the "help" tips
"Stealth tip: Your opponents will search for you if they get suspicious. Avoid them, and they might not catch you."

The "Safe Way"
If you want to turn off those oh-so-helpful "tips" that show up on the loading screens, go to Thief 3 -> CONTENT -> T3 -> Books -> English -> HelpText.sch. Open this file in Notepad, and simply change all the English strings from "Tip: don't let guards see you!" to "", an empty string (two consecutive quote marks). Voila, no more loadscreen tips.

The "Easy Way"
Just erase the entire file. Don't delete the file, but delete all the text inside it. I'm pretty sure this is safe, as I haven't encountered any problems, but make sure you have the original HelpText.sch file just in case. This is much, much faster than the "Safe Way."

NOTE: Deleting the strings from HelpText.sch only disables the tips, such as "Put out torches with water arrows" or "Guards will hear you if you run across metal." The flavor text- quotes from Hammerite chants and so forth- is NOT affected by this tweak. They will still show up, but they will appear partway through the loading process, then disappear. See the "Loadscreen displays ONLY flavor text" tweak to fix this.

Alternately, you can replace these tips with your own, or with flavor text from the first two games.

These get rid of many of my nitpicks, so the game should be even better to play. :b:

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Dropping things for some reason involves putting your arm out horizontally and then letting go of the item - I would have thought a master thief would have discovered a quieter way of putting things down by now.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sounds cool though.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Dropping things for some reason involves putting your arm out horizontally and then letting go of the item - I would have thought a master thief would have discovered a quieter way of putting things down by now.

I discovered this the hard way. In the tutorial I picked up the candlestick when the guard had returned, went "WTF?" and dropped the thing. The guard noticed me and, me not being that accustomed to the whole fighting thing in Thief, promptly killed me.

Same with the stupid end of the tutorial. Forced a fight on me. I panicked and forgot how to throw the flashbomb so I mashed all the keyboard buttons franticly until I decided to just pull out my dagger and get nasty. Escaped with a single one of those health thinguses left.

[Skanky Burns]

I still don't have the whole flashbomb thing down well. I threw one at the wall and the guard behind me didn't notice. I threw one at the floor and he kept on charging. My third somehow worked though. I'll have to change the binding for that key if it plans to be useful in-game though. The "i" key is too far away from both the asdw keys and the mouse - what were they thinking?

I had a fight with one of the guards in the first mission at expert level, and I am happy to say I forced him to flee. I only got hit once, and the standard fighting method of sitting on their back hacking away seems to work just as well in this game as in the others. I am not so happy to report that he ran directly to the guard room (which I had yet to clear out) and I now had 3 guards after me. *splat*

In related news, I am getting better at looking for the loot-glint. It requires a bit of patience, so meets with my approval.

[General Ludd]

Yeah, the "loot-glint" seems fine to me, like a brief shine that catches your eye. The game seems a bit darker, anyways, so perhaps it's better to have it - otherwise alot of the loot would be practically invisable... atleast, where they are currently placed.

I haven't really had a chance to play the game, though. I've been in the garden most of the day and also playing a bit of Open TTD and some emulator games.

[Zkribbler]

i gave up trying to download the demo when the time estimate for the downloading came out to be 64 hours :eek: :( :wall: :zzz:

[Skanky Burns]

You have the game but haven't been playing it?!? But... pdspppapojjfdospmf
/me adds Osweld to "the list"

[pg]

skanky - did you tweak your ini files? supposedly it isn't optimally setup for the pc(ala deus ex 2). it shipped with mouse lag/animation lag on, console size fonts, etc.

edit: i guess i should have read the rest of the thread... :o

[Skanky Burns]

I have the demo only, so haven't really bothered editing the ini files yet. As soon as I get the full version installed however you can guarantee I will be doing quite some editing. Now to work on removing that damned arrow trail.

[Skanky Burns]

From default.ini:[EditorTools]
; this is the address of the metrics-server (used to be "metrics", now is "atnwrkmetrics").
; will get accessed a la http://METRICS/foo
; -=< REMOVE BEFORE SHIP >=-

[General Ludd]

I've had some more time to play it now. Fun. :)


I figured out how to restart a mission - it's in the load menu for some reason. So I started the first (non-tutorial) mission over on expert and started playing through seriously. I still haven't finished it, but I'm having alot of fun. The game is deffinately a worthy succesor, I think.

Some silliness: I stole a giant painting (right out of the frame) and somehow managed to roll it up and stick it in my coat or something while a guard was patrolling the room. And he didn't even notice it missing. :lol: I guess the guards aren't really that much smarter.


The shadows are a bit wonky sometimes, aswell. With them suddenly appearing or disapearing and parts of the room geting litten up from certain angles. But maybe that's just a problem with my video drivers. Although I did notice that the torches don't cast shadows on themselves, which can make for a spooky shadow.

http://s95005245.onlinehome.us/wraith.jpg

Is that his shadow, or a wraith? :scared:

[Kassiopeia]

There's an unofficial <A HREF="http://hellfish.org/~kookoo/t3tw/T3_patcher_by_Myagi.zip">patch</A> out that's supposed to allow you to change a myriad of things, including the blue "glow" on doors, bodies and loot, the arrow lines, and the loot glint.

I haven't tried it myself, since I don't find the effects too annoying, but it's supposed to work. You run it in the System folder, before that you should update T3Main.exe and CONTENT\T3\Map\Kernel_GFXALL.ibt . This should work in the demo as well as in the actual game.

For instance, the blue glow can be altered with the following values:

0.01 0.01 0.05 = Slightly blue
0.00 0.00 0.00 = No glow at all

[alva]

Some silliness: I stole a giant painting (right out of the frame) and somehow managed to roll it up and stick it in my coat or something while a guard was patrolling the room. And he didn't even notice it missing

A good AI is one that is not perfect. ;)
IE one that mimics a human..

[loinburger]

I don't think there will be any spoilers in this post, so I'm not going to use any tags.


I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to get back to playing my current mission -- I just had about the worst "oh ****!" heart attack moments I've ever had in a game, far worse than any I've ever had in, say, System Shock II. In the current mission I'm fighting zombies, except that these are "special" zombies -- most zombies are created by the Pagans and so you can permanently kill them with either holy water or fire arrows, but in the current mission the zombies are former inmates of an insane asylum, and became zombies not by Pagan magic but instead became zombies because the building where they died is pure concentrated evil. So, there's no possible way that I've found to permanently off them.

This is easily the best Thief mission I've ever played.

[Skanky Burns]

Hooray for no arrow trails!
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showtopic=210800&st=60

[Arnelos]

I ran into Skanky on the Eidos boards and he reminded me that this Other Games forum (which I've almost never visited) actually exists.

So I figured I drop in to the T3 thread. My only comment at the moment is that I've played through the entire game once and have strated my second playthrough... all I can say is that this game is great.

If I can go dig up some of my comments from the Eidos boards, I might re-post them here.

[Skanky Burns]

Please do. :b:
And glad to see you did actually make it back here. :D

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by loinburger

This is easily the best Thief mission I've ever played.

Holy ****ing ****.

I'm just playing that very same mission, and

I just went up to the attic, and I haven't met anything yet, but I'm already scared witless, and I just heard a strange sound... reading that post helped me weather the scaryness to a tolerable level, but I'm even more terrified still at the fact that I CAN'T KILL THEM?!

I mean, I opened the door to the attic, and it started to knock loudly, and I thought "ah, there must be something on the door's path that makes it buggy, I know that", but then it ENDED, and then there came the note "You heard a strange knocking sound in the attic", and that was just waaaaaay too scary. Reminds me of that game with the insanity meter. Holy crap.

I haven't been, as it happens, this frightened by a game since System Shock II, and that was four years ago, and when you're thirteen it's so much easier. Dammit, it's 3:11 in the morning and I think I should quit playing for tonight lest I get traumatized or something.

[loinburger]

Turns out I was wrong on the killing them -- you can kill them, it's just a helluva lot harder than a normal zombie. With a normal zombie, one vial of holy water will off them on easy mode, and one flash bomb will off them on any mode once you've knocked them to the floor. It took three vials of holy water for me to off one of the cradle creatures, and about four flash bombs -- I'm losing the war of attrition on expert mode. Not to mention that they're just as fast as I am -- no outrunning these fellas...

I'm still looking for a screenshot of one of the things -- the shot always came out too dark on my computer, and now I've overwritten all of the save points near the place.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm carrying a whopping four flasks of holy water and playing Normal, they could all well be invulnerable. I've got ten flash bombs along as well, I'd estimate I could kill three or maybe four in a tight spot. But I'd rather avoid them altogether.

I'm kind of disappointed that they can't be eliminated, though. Removes that certain something from the whole affair.

[loinburger]

I wound up dealing with most of them by luring them into out-of-the-way corridors and backstabbing them. That's what gave me one of my "oh ****" moments when playing this level -- accidentally running my way down one of those "out-of-the-way" corridors.

[Sarxis]

Is it out? Oh yeah, the 25th! :^O

This has been a long time in waiting.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia

I haven't been, as it happens, this frightened by a game since System Shock II, and that was four years ago, and when you're thirteen it's so much easier.

Now I really want to play this game! I wasn't 13 (more like 20) when I played SS2, and I still remember how scary the atmosphere in that game was. I would play it at night, in an almost empty house, then be too scared to go and get a drink from the kitchen for about 10 minutes afterwards. :)

[Kassiopeia]

I clicked a painting in the attic, and a sound came out of nowhere. That got me slightly scared. After hearing out the sound, I saw the light in the screenshot, and noticed that it's forming a girl's shadow behind it. This was creepy enough to take a screenshot.

When I took <A HREF="http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/anttinor/images/cradle01.jpg">the screenshot</A>, however, the face appeared. The face was/is not in the game. I tried to fiddle around with brightness, but I just can't get the face to appear in the game. Faking a poltergeist on a screenshot seems a bit far-fetched but i guess that's the only explanation.

All I can say is: :scared:

Edit:

The (apparently) scripted encounter in lounge in the second area went, fortunately, without a hitch. Two flasks of holy water downed the thing, which means I can take one more out at my leisure and hopefully avoid the others. Right now I'm standing beside the downed one, I want to see how long it stays there or whether it'll remain there permanently. This was on Normal difficulty, mind you.

Edit 2: Thank god for flashbombs! A backstab and once the thing wakes up two flashbombs do the trick.

[alva]

If not posted yet:
a little usefull present (http://www.tweakguides.com/TDS_1.html)
:)

[Kassiopeia]

Drat. I appear to be stuck.

I'm in the Lair, the one swarming with statues, and I've nabbed the Chalice and the Paw, but I've yet to find the Glyph of Unsomething or the clues needed for the other objective.

I've roamed and scoured the place to the best of my abilities, what with being unable to even scratch the statues, but the only seemingly untouched location that's left is up at the balcony in the large hall where the huge statue does his rounds.

Thing is, there's no way to get up to the balcony. I tried climbing gloves but I can't get past the strand of un-climbable wall pattern that circles the walls, the trees have proven a fruitless route, and I haven't found staircases or elevators anywhere that could lead up there.

What am I missing here?

[loinburger]

There's a courtyard with a huge friggin stone statue, and two balconies. You've got to scale the wall and get on one of those balconies.

[Kassiopeia]

Ah, so I was on the right track. I'll have to scout around there more and try to find the right spot to climb. Thanks.

[loinburger]

You'll probably need climbing gloves. If you've got them, then any spot near a balcony will do.

[Kassiopeia]

Yeah, got it, I'm there. I do have the gloves, I went up right next to the balcony. I could swear I couldn't climb the part with the whiter material before but I guess not.

[DrSpike]

I have no idea about the game yet since I haven't started, but I didn't want to ruin the run of spoilers. :)

[Skanky Burns]

I didn't think you had started the game yet. Risking a peek at your spoiler turned out a worthwhile risk.

I've been playing today, but my house is not conducive to stealth gameplay. Noisy as hell would be a more apt description.

[Kassiopeia]

Finished it. The game was certainly a blast, if a bit short for my taste. The endind was also slightly lacking in my humble opinion:

While I think it was an excellent judgement call not to force the player to actually KILL Gamall, I was expecting some kind of a clear sign that "this is it". When I placed the eye on the fountain, I was definitely not waiting for the game to already end.

I like to savour the ends of games, feel my heart beat and so on, and while I did get a slice of this when running right through a battle between Gamall and two Hammerite spellcasters in Stonemarket Proper, the real "oomph" was lacking.

All in all it's a great game. Note however that I haven't played the two earlier Thieves that much, although I'll be looking for Metal Age in the bargain bins the next time I go shopping. But thankfully my earlier worries caused by the heap of turd that was DX2 turned out to be false.

[alva]

You've already FINISHED this game????:eek:

Where is the fun in that?

That's like spending 6 six hours on dinner and then everyone scofflling (sp?) it down in 3 seconds 'cause they want to go watch football or something. :angry:

[DrSpike]

Unfortunately the norm these days.

[Skanky Burns]

New bug uncovered.

Have you ever thought that the game was too easy even on expert level? Well, thats may just be because the game was on easy. Whenever you save the game and load again, the difficulty level reverts to normal. If you go to a zone for the second time, the difficulty level reverts to normal. If you are in town, the difficulty level will be normal and you have no choice in the matter. So the only way to play on expert at the moment is to save a game before going on a mission, then go through the mission without saving and going to each zone only once. Even in the only mission I have experienced, that is impossible. :(

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
New bug uncovered.

Have you ever thought that the game was too easy even on expert level? Well, thats may just be because the game was on easy. Whenever you save the game and load again, the difficulty level reverts to normal. If you go to a zone for the second time, the difficulty level reverts to normal. If you are in town, the difficulty level will be normal and you have no choice in the matter. So the only way to play on expert at the moment is to save a game before going on a mission, then go through the mission without saving and going to each zone only once. Even in the only mission I have experienced, that is impossible. :(

... ****.


I thought it was too easy.

But atleast the expert level objectives and restrictions stay...

[Arnelos]

Tycho made a long post about the game in Penny Arcade on Monday (http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-06-14).

[Kassiopeia]

From Arnelos's link:

But let me tell you that I was desperate with terror on more than one occasion, and I could not bear to be in first person mode. Name the last game where that happened.

Why didn't I think of that! Third person would've been a good way to get some distance between myself and the game. I didn't actually even bother to remember where the key to shift the view was, so I played it all the way through in first person.

t has Eric Brosius on audio, which is the same person that did not only the previous games but also System Shock 2, whose audio alone was able to give me a nervous breakdown.

God yes. System Shock 2 was like one long Shalebridge Cradle (name of level in question).

[Arnelos]

As for my own posts on the subject, which earlier in the thread I said I'd repost from the TDS forum...

Here's my "review" of the game (if you can call it that) right after I finished the game:

Just finished the game. After finishing it and playing through the lengthy last level, I have to say that Thief: Deadly Shadows is arguably better than either Thief: The Dark Project or Thief 2: The Metal Age. The plotline is, in my opinion, more compelling than Thief 2, though perhaps on par with Thief 1. Thief 1's drawback was that Thief 2 had better levels. I'd say that Thief 3's levels are easily better than much of Thief 1, and probably on par with much of Thief 2.

Making the comparison of levels with Thief 2 is difficult, however. To be blunt, you're talking about apples and oranges and ultimately it's going to be a matter of taste. Personally, I find both to be good, just different. The rooftop level of Thief 2 and other such things aren't possible in Thief 3 because of the unfortunate concessions that had to be made for the X-Box, but Thief 3 brings to the table things Thief 2 never had: namely a far more compelling plot (in my opinion), a mission that will scare the crap out of you better than probably any other mission in a video game, and one hell of a great last level (which is an area where Thief 2 was very very lacking IMO). Even the final cutscene is great (and I love the nod to Thief 1 at the end of it ;) ).

Those who are completely turned off by the game are mostly those, I think, who have only played the Tutorial, demo, and first castle/mansion level. Frankly, that whole section of the game seems a dumbed down introduction to people new to the series compared to what comes later. The game gets both more challenging and FAR more compelling.

For those who say they like it, but see a lot of drawbacks due to things missing from Thief 1/2, I sympathize. Personally, I agreed with a lot of that sentiment early in the game and still do agree with one major gripe (the small level size). Otherwise, I don't think the gripes bear themselves out if you play through the game.

Is the game an enormous step forward in stealth gaming? No, I don't think so. Is it a really great stealth-based game with a very compelling plotline? Yes, most definately. Is it as good as Thief 1/2? Yes, at least in my opinion. I'd even argue that it's marginally better than Thief 2 because of the better plot and better than Thief 1 because they thankfully avoided some of the boring sections of Thief 1 (remember that you tend to forget the drawbacks of Thief 1 that were improved even in Thief 2 when your memory becomes so heavily tainted by nostalgia - to be fair, Thief 1 had some GREAT levels, though).

The final mission has some really great gameplay, too.

In the final analysis, I'd probably have to echo what I remember of the Gamespy review: It's not a great leap forward in stealth gaming, but it's at least as good as Thief 1 or Thief 2. I'd say Ion Storm did a pretty good job.

[Arnelos]

As for the cradle mission (sorry for giving away the NAME to anyone, but that's not really a spoiler in my opinion, seeing as the name is already on every "this is the scariest level ever" thread in the TDS forum), here's one of the things I wrote a few weeks ago after I played it. It's in response to a thread that started with the question "Cradle: Scariest Level?" and the first post asked if it was the scariest level ever.

This is hardly the first thread on this very subject. I think that provides you with your answer. ;)

Seriously, A LOT of us have said that the Cradle level is not merely spectacular, but probably the best creep-value level of any game we remember playing. For me personally, as I've also stated elsewhere, it actually surpasses the creep-value of System Shock 2, which is the GAME that previously creeped me out most at the time I first played it.

The thing I love about the Cradle level (and I presume the genius of its design) is that it uses your Thief training against you. Specifically:

You've been trained across three Thief games to sneak around slowly in the dark and listen very carefully to noises. In this level, moving slowly and being on alert for any noise only serves to uselessly scare the crap out of you. The Thief games also train you to think of yourself as the nocturnal predator hunting his unwary prey. The Cradle level turns this entire mindset upside down and makes you feel intensely uncomfortable for being the PREY with an uncanny sense of your lack of safety, yet gives nothing tangible to focus that on. The Thief games have also trained you to use enemies as mental and literal landmarks and goal posts. You get so accustomed to watching and listening to the movements of your opponents and working a strategy around it that doing so becomes quite comfortable. The experience of not having any of those goal posts or landmarks can be quite disorienting; especially with that knocking sound coming from the attic and you left wondering when the first enemy is going to pop up and surprise you.

So the result is that all of that Thief training you have ends up working AGAINST you - largely only serving to scare you more than you'd otherwise be scared (due to different behavior and outlook).

Quite an ingenious level. :)

[DrSpike]

I'm probably going to start this in the next week or so; I am already looking forward to a game that even in part can be said to be as scary as the great System Shock 2. :)

[alva]

there's a patch out for the difficulty setting. :)

Must be the smallest pach ever.

http://support.eidosinteractive.com/GI/CustomerSupport/FaqSearchResults.jsp?problemType=13&searchText=&game=168&platform=3

[Kassiopeia]

Arnelos: Great points on the Cradle. For instance, to exemplify your point, this was the first time ever I got scared by the mere shadow of my own character. It was a hoot.

[Traianvs]

I'm dying to play this game. Damn exams are holding me back.. but my hands are itching for some loot :evilgrin:

[Skanky Burns]

I know the feeling. My final exam is in 30 minutes though, so soooon... ;)

[alva]

Good luck then :b:

[Skanky Burns]

Thanks. I think I went well in it. :)

[FrustratedPoet]

The important thing is that it's over. :)

[Kassiopeia]

For those of you who've had the luxury of completing the game, Re: the museum:

How on earth did you get the necklace that's around the neck of the huge statue? I couldn't find a ladder, and everything else either didn't work or both didn't work and killed me, like dropping from the ceiling just above the breast of the statue and trying to nab the blasted thing mid-drop. That was the one that killed me.

[Arnelos]

Kass,

I just gave up on that necklace. I assume there's a way to get it, but I just figured it would take too much of my time to figure it out and I wanted to finish the plotline already! :p

[loinburger]

I figured it was one of those things where you've gotta stack boxes, so I gave up. I'm playing through the game on expert difficulty this time, though, so I'll report back if and when I figure out how to get the damned thing, because this time it'll be a mission requirement.

[Skanky Burns]

I feel left out. Dammit.

[Arnelos]

Skanky, I can't believe you said that! :eek:

-----------------

:cute: :evilgrin:

[alva]

T

[DrSpike]

3 guesses remaining. :)

[loinburger]

I was wrong on the Cradle Creatures -- it's possible to kill them, it's just a helluva lot more difficult than it is to kill regular zombies, and they don't dissolve away after you've killed them. The first time I played through I backstabbed one of them and then shot a fire arrow at it, and the damn thing still got up and attacked me. After dumping a bunch of holy water on it the creature eventually went down, but didn't dissolve, and there was no way I was going to get near the thing anymore.

As for the necklace around the neck of the statue in the museum, you've got to either jostle the necklace off or else knock over the statue. I took one of those big urn things, climbed it, and jumped over to the statue pedestal. This knocked the statue around a bit, and the necklace fell off. It was only worth about 130 gold, which is chicken feed compared to all of the loot available in that place, but still, loot's loot.

[DrSpike]

I played the tutorial tonight, and I have to say I'm not that impressed so far.

Btw I can't find an option to alter mouse sensitivity. I have a glass mousemat and mouse with teflon coated feet (they are remnant of my competitive FPS days) so I often need to turn sensitivity down a touch. Any workarounds?

[Kassiopeia]

Knocking the statue down? Pffft. Never occurred to me, I'm a thief not a vandal.

The Cradle zombies also need two downings to get permanently killed. The first time a flashbomb or two on Normal are enough, then they collapse on the ground. The first time I downed one I was thankfully (and obviously) cautious, and when I took a step closer to check the zombie out it jumped up and came at me. Then a few more bombs/holy water/a fire arrow or whatnot, and the thing dropped "dead". I backstabbed a few too, not sure if they were permanently killed right away like that but it was a useful method also.

[Arnelos]

The Tutorial sucks for this game - no question about that. The game itself, especialy once you start the main plotline (after the stupid initial missions), is much better.

As for mouse sensitivity, I thought there was a slider for that. :confused:

[loinburger]

I actually came up with the idea of knocking down the statue by accident. I blackjacked one of the guards and tossed his body near a statue, and then when I turned to go the guard started screaming because the statue had toppled over on him and crushed him.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Arnelos

As for mouse sensitivity, I thought there was a slider for that. :confused:

Me too, but I didn't see it on a quick look last night. I'll check again later.

[Traianvs]

Started this game just now...
Damnit it pwnz so much, the athmosphere!!

Only... those loading times. My computer here kicks ass, but it still doesn't run all that smoothly too!

[Skanky Burns]

I'll have to actually play this game one day...

[DrSpike]

You mean you didn't!? :eek:

[dudemanjack]

Come on it only came out like nine months ago.

[DrSpike]

Yes, but what you are not aware of is Skanky's obsession with the first two games. :D

[Tassadar500]

Arnelos, you're still alive? :eek:

[DrSpike]

Check the date. :)

[Tassadar500]

****. :(

[Skanky Burns]

The town part after the first mission turned me off the game temporarily, and I just haven't been able to get myself to start playing it again.

[DrSpike]

Me too actually. :(

[Traianvs]

You guys are absolutely crazy. The town part is not fantastic, but it's not as crappy as everybody says it is. It's simply a main map from where you can start missions. After the first mission you can choose to break into the Hammerite place before sneaking around in the pagans hideout. And honestly, a large town map would get boring too, no matter how many houses there are to loot. There are a few small sidequests though, like some thug pretending to be you (you can simply club the fake Garret, complete the mission and get your reward.. or you can do it differently :p)

There's various scripted events too. Like one time I looted the house of stonecutter; his deliveries were thus missing, and when I came by the house later on, 2 thugs were threatening the stonecutter and eventually killing him (if you don't do anything about it). On the whole though the focus lies on the real missions, which isn't a bad thing. I'm enjoying myself. It's way better than the previous editions on many things!
It's now next to impossible to kill an enemy in combat, let alone 2 enmies. Especially on expert level you're as good as dead, because your puny dagger is worthless against enemy weaponry (and they have more health too). Like a real thief, you can do hit'n run attacks though, or shooting an arrow from a distance and disappearing again only to show up from behind.

I never kill anyone though; I even try not to club anyone if possible :D.
The better gfx, better sounds etc simply make this game much better than the previous ones imo. Levels are more realistic and more imaginative; it's possible to do some creative fooling around if you can think of it. It may not sound like a big thing; but I thought it was pretty cool to pick up a barrel, throw it against a stacked pile of crates in order to make the healing potion on top fall down on the ground so I could pick it up.

Btw, it's also sweet to steal enemy weapons; Often I try to pick their wands before attempting to pass by; All they can do is run off and warn others.. by the time reinforcements arrive I'm long gone of course ;)

Still I have not played much yet... Damn this game is immersive. It really should be played with the lights out, and preferably at 2 o' clock in the morning :D

PS: whats with arnelos, is he dead or what

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Trajanus
You guys are absolutely crazy.

Myself and Skanky thank you for pointing that out. ;)

[Skanky Burns]

Well, I'm back into it again, and I must say that the missions certainly are worth the effort in getting past the cityscape. The atmosphere of the first two games is back in full force. I also met my first undead and (after saving) let one of them out of jail to see what they were like. Fast buggers, made worse by the feeling that Garrett is like running through treacle whilst drunk rather than running through open space.

Aside from the cityscape and Garrett's controls, everything else is at par with the originals. From me, this is about the best praise I can give.

[Grumbold]

Nice reminder, I must replay this again soon. Its been long enough that I'll have to work out the patterns and treasure locations again. First time through I didn't worry too much about finding a bloodless solution so that will provide the added challenge.

[DrSpike]

I still haven't played this through. Too many games, not enough time. :(

[Skanky Burns]

I've tried blackjacking only, but somehow I still managed to have one death on my hands. I think the guy I blackjacked who was walking in a puddle of water drowned between the instant he touched the water and the second later when I picked him up. Alas. Also, throwing people into dark corners that happen to have a statue in it causes them to die. I loaded to avoid that death, poor Hammerite.

[DrSpike]

Why would you not want to kill the evil guards? :D

[Skanky Burns]

The guards aren't evil. Sure, they want to kill me (or make me deaded, as the Pagans say), but they are just chums who couldn't get another job. Besides, proper thieves don't leave a mess.

That said, strange underworld creatures that are not human don't have a chance. :kylle:

[Marid Audran]

I was a huge Thief fan for years. Since I discovered the series sometime around late 2000 or 2001 I was an addict and played it almost every day for about two years, including involvement in the TTLG forum community and playing/reviewing the myriad of fan missions created for it. A testiment to how addicting and timewasting the Looking Glass Experience was. The first two games are exquisite. Landmark gaming experiences. For my money, the sequel, The Metal Age, is my favorite, though both are excellent. Games like Hitman, Deus Ex, or other FPS with a "sneaking" element out there owe Thief a big inspirational debt. I played Thief III when it was released, completed it, and since then really haven't loaded it up once in over a year. This wasn't my experience with Thief I or II, I'll tell you that.

I found Thief III, or Thief: "Deadly Shadows," :rolleyes: to be the easily the weakest of the bunch. The non-linearity aspect of mission selection is illusionary; two branches lead to the same path, in fact, I recall both branches need to be taken anyway. The interlude of the "City" and its various districts became very tedious after the first couple of times and I found myself running through the streets as quickly as possible just to get to the next mission--there simply wasn't enough appeal in spelunking around the flats and back alleys and little parks off the beaten path. They tended to respawn in exactly the same fashion mission in, mission out.

The addition of a running pool of funds and equipment neutered much of the difficulty of the missions, since your typically had no shortage of cash to buy vast amounts of whatever you needed to nullify challenges ahead. The load zones were a pain (cross platform woes for a previous computer-only great), as were the maps in general which covered much less space, square footage if you will, during missions compared to the previous games.

Connections, legacy if you will, to the previous games were tenuous and mentioned almost as an afterthought. Garrett, if anything, seemed less wise and experienced then even the beginning of The Dark Project. The Keepers were rendered banal through overexposure. The Pagans were extremely embarrassing, and seemed to borrow heavily from the Jar-Jar Binks school of speech. The Hammers, at least, seemed to fare well, meaning no worse or better than previous games. The Endgame Boss (the "Night Hag" or some such nonsense?) was dumb, and sitting through her cutscenes was tedium personified. Constantine was much scarier on a supernatural level. Karras was much more horrifying on a human one.

There were many other niggling things as well, like the omission of rope arrows and swimming, the axing of the much beloved and atmospheric briefing movies, the fact that the "loot glint" was far too obvious and without it finding treasure was much too laborious. They couldn't even get the simple blackjack manoeuvre right. I didn't even like the voice acting. Innovations like the "faction" brownie-points system were somewhat slipshod; just try doing an undead mission and not totally currying favor with the Hammers afterward.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy Thief: DS somewhat, frustrating as it was. It certainly looked pretty. Stunning, really. The light effects were particularly breathtaking. Most of the missions had their poignant moments. I recall the Widow Moria mission being one of my favorites, and the Shalebridge Cradle is arguably the single most haunting, frightening mission out there in the Thief canon; possibly any game.

Still. The negatives tended to weigh down whatever Thief: DS did right, which was mostly look pretty and stay reasonably true to the gameplay of the Thief series. However, the lack of the Looking Glass seal clearly showed on this one, as did the scarring that came with a cross-platform game which invariably dumbed down the PC product. I'm not particularly interested in Ion Storm continuing the franchise, and if they were to announce/develop a Thief IV I'd probably not play it, at least not until it was snugly in the bargain bin.

Newcomers to Thief would be well-advised to play the first two, and not just because I said so, but because it's a superior gameplay experience, to say nothing of a storytelling one. While several years old, the games are 3D graphic-card compatible, still look and play well, and can be bought very cheaply second-hand with online vendors like Amazon.com.