Hello from a kind of newbie

[ricketyclik]

Hello chaps! (I presume there are no women present? :naughty: )

I've been over in the CtP1 forum for a couple of years now, and the release of the CtP2 source code has finally gotten me off of my derriere and over here to mix it up with you guys. :D

I've just received my (no manual, CD and wall chart only) copy of the game from an ebay victory (my first - how sweet it was :evilgrin: ), loaded the game and the 1.11 patch, the updated (?) servers.dat file, and about to start playing a single player game to begin the process of finding out the differences from CtP1.

Guess what! I think I've found one already, without playing the game! There doesn't seem to be a tutorial game, like there is in 1.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'll no doubt be meeting some of you over the coming weeks and months, which I look forward to.

Until then then.

[Locutus]

Welcome! :)

If you play the game on the lowest difficulty level you will get sort of beginners advise. Not a real tutorial like in CtP1, but some help for newbies nonetheless (though I don't know of how much use it will be for a CtP1 vet such as yourself).

[ricketyclik]

OK thanks Locutus.

Here's a question: What's with empire borders? What's the practical, ie, gameplay, implication?

[ricketyclik]

Another question: is there a way to conveniently see how long remaining on each of the current items in each city's build queue at once?

[EPW]

In the national manager(access with F2 or city button->national manager, then select the status tab) shows everything your building in every city and how many turns until there done.

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
OK thanks Locutus.

Here's a question: What's with empire borders? What's the practical, ie, gameplay, implication?

Long time ago that I played CTP1, but for the empire border:

You can only build in your own boarders, to expand them you can build forts on your terrain and this will then expand the boarder 2 tiles across (but not the diagonal axis, this will be only 1 tile)

So if you build 2 cities to far apart (like 10 tiles), you will have a gap in between and you wouldn't been able to build a road there.

Also terraforming doesn't make the land anymore yours, really just what is inside your border you can build TI's (Tile improvments) or terraform.

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
Another question: is there a way to conveniently see how long remaining on each of the current items in each city's build queue at once?

For the keyboard commands check in:

(assuming you installed it in the default directory)

D:\Program Files\Activision\Call To Power 2\ctp2_program\ctp

for the file userkeymap.txt.

In there you find all keyboardshortcuts. Can be helpful, if you haven't got the manual. But be careful with editing the file ;) Only at your own risk. Safest way to modify is with the game.

[ricketyclik]

Thanks EPW and Gilgamensch :b:

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
Thanks EPW and Gilgamensch :b:

You are welcome :D

Don't bother to ask, there are never stupid questions, only stupid answers :D ;)

[hexagonian]

A suggestion ricketyclik...

After you get done with the vanilla game download and play a Mod.

The difference is night and day (regarding the AI)

[ricketyclik]

OK, will do. I imagine people would be even better :evil:

[Maquiladora]

MP game anytime ricketyclik :b: Read this first http://www.geocities.com/ctp2strategy/ :D

[ricketyclik]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
MP game anytime ricketyclik :b: Read this first http://www.geocities.com/ctp2strategy/ :D

OK Maq, jes give me a few weeks to get up to speed :D

[Solver]

Also Ricketyclick, hop over to the CtP2 source forum, and get the latest playtest build, and then a mod of your choice to play with. The recompiled source edition is already better in the sense of bugs in single player.

[OnePresent]

Originally posted by Gilgamensch

Don't bother to ask, there are never stupid questions, only stupid answers :D ;)

"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Present company excluded of course. :scared:

That was a joke, really.

[child of Thor]

welcome ricketyclik:b: enjoy your stay and i'll be happy to give you any stupid answers you need, as i'm prone to do on occasion ;)

So here goes :

Borders are something i've grown to really love, and cant really play without now. They give a sense of the bounderies of your empire, and in a way make it easier to survey your territory and say , "all this land is mine" :)

he only draw back of them is that if you build your cities to far apart, its possible one might not get connected to the rest of your borders(happens when you take over an enemy city not next to your current territory). The downside of this is that you cant build any infastructure outside of your borders(apart from the 'fort' which is expensive).

But overall i like them very much.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by child of Thor

The only draw back of them is that if you build your cities to far apart, its possible one might not get connected to the rest of your borders(happens when you take over an enemy city not next to your current territory). The downside of this is that you cant build any infastructure outside of your borders(apart from the 'fort' which is expensive).

But overall i like them very much.

About borders and infrastructure, I remember a talk about roads in a sourcecode related thread. We were several in favor of allowing the player to build roads outside of its border in order to connect its cities. I don't know if it has been implemented or not, this is something I will have to check in a future game. ;)

[Maquiladora]

I think its a good idea, if the land is currently visible and not under fog of war. But there is a problem, that square the road is on now becomes part of that empire, but someone may conquer the cities around it but still doesnt control the roads in the gap?

I think the use of forts are good enough.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I think its a good idea, if the land is currently visible and not under fog of war. But there is a problem, that square the road is on now becomes part of that empire, but someone may conquer the cities around it but still doesnt control the roads in the gap?

I think the use of forts are good enough.

I don't think the road infrastructures would extend your territory but I agree that the ancient civilizations generally built fortresses along their major roads in order to protect them. ;)

[Maquiladora]

So why not just leave the system as it is? Build a fort to extend your territory, then build a road upto the fort and through it.

[Tamerlin]

This is currently what you have to do but I must admit it would ease the beginning of the game when you don't have too much Public Work points to spend. :(

[Maquiladora]

So shall we change it because its too difficult? :D Maybe there could be a cheaper tile imp then, like a watch tower that had 2 vision and extends borders, but gave no defence bonus.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
So shall we change it because its too difficult? :D

:eek:

Of course not, I should rather say that it would speed up the beginning of the game. It would even be somehow tougher for the human player as the AI civs would not spend plenty of points to link cities they have settled too far away from their bases. :cute:

[Maquiladora]

Well i was kidding, of course not make it easier :D Im wondering how you place your cities, because ive never had to use a fort to link my borders... a bottleneck on the otherhand :evilgrin:

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Well i was kidding, of course not make it easier :D Im wondering how you place your cities, because ive never had to use a fort to link my borders... a bottleneck on the otherhand :evilgrin:

I like to leave 8 tiles between my cities in order to allow for a maximum development. But after having read a few posts about city placement I am considering leaving six tiles only. In another hand I have discovered that if you want to catch up as quickly as possible with the AI in the SAP2 you have to be rather aggressive and grow at the expense of the closest AI civ, especially when you are playing at the higher level of difficulty. Once you have found the closest AI civ and conquered its cities you must link them with the rest of your empire and the problem of road building outside your borders appears. :D

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I like to leave 8 tiles between my cities in order to allow for a maximum development. But after having read a few posts about city placement I am considering leaving six tiles only. In another hand I have discovered that if you want to catch up as quickly as possible with the AI in the SAP2 you have to be rather aggressive and grow at the expense of the closest AI civ, especially when you are playing at the higher level of difficulty. Once you have found the closest AI civ and conquered its cities you must link them with the rest of your empire and the problem of road building outside your borders appears. :D

Yeap, i just started playing SAP again (havent started with updater yet ;) ), i leave 4 spaces between cities, but i often destroy or slave AI cities to death, i hate early overlap :D thats probably why i never use forts to connect borders, ill usually use a new city to connect, if i have to keep a juicy AI wonder city far away. Thats the funny thing about forts, ive never used them until i need far away air bases perhaps.

[ricketyclik]

Originally posted by Solver
Also Ricketyclick, hop over to the CtP2 source forum, and get the latest playtest build, and then a mod of your choice to play with. The recompiled source edition is already better in the sense of bugs in single player.

That is indeed what drew me over here to the dark side in the first place. But give me a while to get the hang of the original first...

[J Bytheway]

Also, the newest playtest build has a tutorial button ;).

[Solver]

What a nice little neat button ;). Give me an ice-cream button in the next build please :D.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Solver
What a nice little neat button ;). Give me an ice-cream button in the next build please :D.

:lol: Maybe as an easter egg (I mean easter leemur, or should that be leemur egg? Can I even spell leemur? I doubt it :D).

[Solver]

It's lemur I think ;). Lemur eggs, hmm.... why not! I want a full pizza order form in CtP2 then, with an ability to choose between lemur meat topping (brutal :scared:), as well as different degrees of Activision-Cheese (TM).

[Peter Triggs]

It's lemur I think . Lemur eggs, hmm.... why not!


Yeah, but you have to be bad at spelling if you want to find the egg ;) .

[ricketyclik]

Do you think I oughta switch to the play test version right now?

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
Do you think I oughta switch to the play test version right now?

So long as you're prepared to reinstall CTP2 if it all goes pear-shaped (and not blame us for destroying your data if it all goes *really* pear-shaped), and you're not wanting to play online, then yes, I think it's probably worthwhile :cool:.

[ricketyclik]

Hmm, I think I might finish my 1st game (winning, on medium), have a crack at Deity (or whatever it is in 2) and then make the dreaded switch.

Is a dual install possible?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
Do you think I oughta switch to the play test version right now?

Why not? ;)

The major bugs have been corrected and the Super Apolyton Pack 2 (aka SAP2) seems to work with the latest playtest version. :cool:

The SAP2 improves the original game (and the AI in particular) without changing its concepts, it is the game as it should be. Now the programmers have the sourcecode, each version of the original game will come closer to the game as it should have been. The main problem is that the original AI is not really a challenge for the human player, this will have to wait until the programmers are ready to work on this.

If you are not sure of what you want to do, make a copy of your CtP2 folder, name it as you want (Call To Power 2 Playtest for example), install the latest playtest build in the new folder and start the game directly from the executable that should be in C:\Program Files\Activision\Call To Power 2 SourceCode Playtest\ctp2_program\ctp.

There is another suggestion from Maquiladora if you want to install the Playtest over a fresh install of CtP2. Rename your current Call To Power 2 folder and install CtP2 again from your CD-ROM. Once the game is installed, rename the new Call To Power 2 folder (Call To Power 2 Playtest for example) and give back its original name to your original Call To Power 2 folder.

Remember the playtest version needs to be installed over a patched CtP2. If you want to use the SAP2, you will have to install Modswapper or ModManager ( :cute: ) and then the SAP2. Once it is installed, edit the APOL_const.txt file and add the following line:

MAX_MATCH_LIST_CYCLES 10 # Amount of AI max match list cycles

between the line RIOT_LEVEL 73 and the line POWER_POINTS_TO_MATERIALS 1.

:)

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
If you want to use the SAP2, you will have to install Modswapper...

Or you could use ModManager instead ;).

If you're of two minds, and have enough hard disk space, then a dual install is probably the way to go :).

[Maquiladora]

Remember the playtest version needs to be installed over a patched CtP2.

This has never been clear to me. Ive read different people saying the playtest should be used without the 1.1 patch now and some say it should. Which is it? Is there any difference now? :confused:

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by J Bytheway

Or you could use ModManager instead ;).


... If you want to use the SAP2, you will have to install Modswapper or ModManager and then the SAP2...

:blush: :cute:


:D

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora


This has never been clear to me. Ive read different people saying the playtest should be used without the 1.1 patch now and some say it should. Which is it? Is there any difference now? :confused:

I must admit this is not clear for me neither, many posts in the playtest thread assume you have installed the 1.11 patch before installing the latest playtest. :(

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
This has never been clear to me. Ive read different people saying the playtest should be used without the 1.1 patch now and some say it should. Which is it? Is there any difference now? :confused:

It should make no difference at all. All the files that the official patch replaced are also replaced by the playtest zip.

[Gilgamensch]

Was the patch install not needed for some extra slic-files?

I remember vaguely that it was something like that..........but I might be wrong.......

[J Bytheway]

Locutus tested it on an unpatched install and it worked fine. If it doesn't work for anyone on an unpatched install, then we want to know about it, so please do try.

[Patryn]

Well, nice to return from a 2 year vacation and see some familiar names still hanging about. :D I played ricketyclick on a number of occasions, and on my pass through the CTP1 forums, I noticed many people I used to play are still actively involved.

I haven't yet played CTP2, but I spent alot of time in CTP1, and stayed away from #2 because of most of the civvers I played with stated flatly that CTP1 was far superior to CTP2 for various reasons...

I have both CTP1 and 2 on the way in the mail, and they should both arrive at roughy the same time.(2-6 business days) Anyway, question is, do I go back to my CPT1 roots, or would CTP2 be enough of an improvement over #1 to warrant a new setup?

What I would like to know is, what are some of the major things that sets CTP2 apart from it's predecessor? I have read various reviews, and skimmed through some forums and whatnot, but I would like to get some responses before I entrench myself in either game's strategies and such.

Some of my main concerns:
1) I see there is an addition of "flanking" units in CTP2. Would you call this a good addition, or is the old way better? How exactly do they work in the battle? Do air and/or sea units get this added feature? (ie. Attack subs/destroyers acting as the flanking units in your fleet of battleships/carriers)

2) How is multiplayer support? I am not sure of the condition of CTP servers, since the last time I tried hopping in a multi game for CTP1,(about a year ago) I watched the little bar swing back and forth for a good 15 minutes before I decided activision finally sold the CTP servers for scrap.(of course, I was in Korea at the time, so i figured that could be a factor in the problem) I would think that CTP2 servers would have at least a few more years in them before they get dropped, so that seems to be a plus... (probably the most important concern, the multiplayher support)

3) Multiplayer fun factor. Nothing like getting well into a good CTP game online and feeling your anticipation rise as you are racing your adversary to a huge fleet of SOL, or marching lines and lines and lines of cavalry, cannons, and muskets to the fringe of his empire. Nothing quite like getting deep into the end ages and building undersea tunnels all the way out to your enemies shores and rushing hundreds of tanks, walkers, and subversive units onto his beaches to his dismay. My question is, does CTP2 have the same blood as CTP1, or has some slight change or "upgrade" tainted or otherwise changed some of its excitement?

4) It seems that you can only build PW in your own territory... Does that mean that you can't march a road from a city out to the edges of the enemy empire to rush your forces in at a moments notice? And, like mentioning in the previous question, build an undersea highway all the way across the sea to plop your forces on their beaches would be out of the question in CTP2?

5) Trade changed at all? Still the basic monopoly, monoply, monopoly to multiply your riches? :)

6) Anything else that might make me want to choose one game over the other? :D

All I can think of for now, thanks for any answers in advance.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Patryn
[quote]Some of my main concerns:
1) I see there is an addition of "flanking" units in CTP2. Would you call this a good addition, or is the old way better? How exactly do they work in the battle? Do air and/or sea units get this added feature? (ie. Attack subs/destroyers acting as the flanking units in your fleet of battleships/carriers)

Its a good addition, but flanking units are most powerful in any age, but this doesnt make the other units useless. (not on the scale of CtP1 SoL)

2) How is multiplayer support? I am not sure of the condition of CTP servers, since the last time I tried hopping in a multi game for CTP1,(about a year ago) I watched the little bar swing back and forth for a good 15 minutes before I decided activision finally sold the CTP servers for scrap.(of course, I was in Korea at the time, so i figured that could be a factor in the problem) I would think that CTP2 servers would have at least a few more years in them before they get dropped, so that seems to be a plus... (probably the most important concern, the multiplayher support)

CtP2 uses the same servers as CtP1, except only one works for CtP2 (nlink), dont know why.

3) My question is, does CTP2 have the same blood as CTP1, or has some slight change or "upgrade" tainted or otherwise changed some of its excitement?

The biggest change youll notice is that unit movement and tile improvements are most important in CtP2, whereas trade and buildings were most important in CtP1.

4) It seems that you can only build PW in your own territory... Does that mean that you can't march a road from a city out to the edges of the enemy empire to rush your forces in at a moments notice? And, like mentioning in the previous question, build an undersea highway all the way across the sea to plop your forces on their beaches would be out of the question in CTP2?

You can build a fort anywhere in one of your units vision range, the fort gives an extended national border of 2 radius. The only way you could build a really long undersea tunnel is to use a sea engineer to build sea cities then place your tunnels, but the general higher move costs in CtP2 means it probably wouldnt last long in the water.

5) Trade changed at all? Still the basic monopoly, monoply, monopoly to multiply your riches? :)

I think this is one of the biggest reasons people stuck with CtP1, i still play CtP1 PBEM because of the more powerful trade monopolies but thats not to say trade is useless in CtP2, its essential in a long game to have extra gold coming in from trade but not half as important as CtP1.

Another big change related to this is CtP2 deals with the "commerce" resource on terrain and tile imps (where gold was) and this is split into science and gold, depending on your science tax, so gold from trade doesnt effect science at all, it goes straight into the treasury.

6) Anything else that might make me want to choose one game over the other? :D

Id say choose CtP2 because armies are bigger (12 units) and trade and SoLs arent so powerful.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Patryn
6) Anything else that might make me want to choose one game over the other? :D
I like the CTP1 interface better than the CTP2 interface, and I miss city worker placement from CTP1.

Out of the box, CTP2 was a more balanced game than CTP1.

IMO, from a single-player standpoint, the fan-created Mods offer a more indepth game in CTP2 than in CTP1. SLIC has allowed for the creation of Great Leaders, unit upgrades, ingame plagues, a more aggressive AI regarding the use of its military...

[Patryn]

Hmm.... and I liked the trade setup of CTP1. :(

And both games work on the same servers so when one goes, both go....

So, CTP2 is the best for single player. Is that to say it isn't quite as good on the multiplayer side? That is really what it all comes down to, since that is the best way to have replayability in a game like this.

I hear that you can't host a CTP2 game while running XP. That pretty much cuts down the players that can host to a handful in an already thinned crowd doesn't it?

Maybe there should be mass petitioning of activision for the creation of CTP3? :idea:

[Maquiladora]

So, CTP2 is the best for single player. Is that to say it isn't quite as good on the multiplayer side? That is really what it all comes down to, since that is the best way to have replayability in a game like this.

If youre only interested in MP for the replayability then both games are good, both have resynchs and both have their fair share of exploits and bugs, as do all MP games.

Hex talks like you cant even play the unmodded game, thats because he has his mod, Cradle :D The biggest flaw with unmodded CtP2 is its AI, which is something you dont need to worry about in MP.

I hear that you can't host a CTP2 game while running XP. That pretty much cuts down the players that can host to a handful in an already thinned crowd doesn't it?

Well XP can host, as long as its someone with win98/ME/2K joining, but if its 2 XP people then there is a chance it wont work. Most current players have win98 as a partition anyway so we dont stumble across that often.

As far as which has the most active online players i wouldnt know exactly because im not part of the CtP1 MP community (only PBEM) but i would guess its even, both have pretty thinned numbers now after gameleague.

Maybe there should be mass petitioning of activision for the creation of CTP3?

Well there was some pestering for the sourcecode and we got it, so eventually there will be another.