"Civilization IV"... Confirmed?

[DanQ]

From <A HREF="http://apolyton.net/misc" TARGET="_new">the related news item</A> in Apolyton's 'Miscellaneous' section:



In an interview with <B>GameDaily</B>, <B>Firaxis Games</B> President and Chief Executive Officer Jeff Briggs <A HREF="http://www.gamedaily.com/features_new/firaxis" TARGET="_new">seemingly confirmed that</A> one of the three titles being worked on at the gaming developer is <I>Civilization IV</I>. [..]

This is the first known word of any kind from any representative of Firaxis or <I>Civ</I> series publisher and franchise owner <B>Atari</B> confirming a <I>CivIV</I> is in the works. The latest title in the <I>Civilization</I> series, <I>Conquests</I> -- the second expansion pack for <I>Civilization III</I> -- was commercially released last month.



-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[notyoueither]

YOWZAAAAH! :dance:

[MrWhereItsAt]

WHEEE!!!! Each one takes another 2 hours off of my normal amount of daily sleep. :b:

Here's hoping one of the other projects is 'Sid Meier's Colonization II', as well.

:)

[asleepathewheel]

:eek:


outstanding.

!!!!!

:dance:

[Jon Shafer]

Told ya so... (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98057) :cute: ;) :p

Time to set my Civ alarm clock for 2 years. :D

[vovan]

Woah... I wonder how it will go. :b:

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Also, don't you think that one should move this to a more prominent forum? While this forum is appropriate, for news such as this....One of the least visited forums isn't very respectful to a glorious but 1/3 dead series ;)

News item, forum announcement, "Today on Apolyton" headline (horizontal bar atop forum pages), link from Apolyton homepage, this thread topped within this forum...

Word will spread. :)

-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[MarkG]

so do you guys think we should cover it? :)

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Here's hoping one of the other projects is 'Sid Meier's Colonization II', as well.
:)

DITTO! :D

[Vince278]

Hope we are not being premature. :)

I'd like to see Master of Magic 2 and a new X-Com title (I believe Sid has the license for both). :b:

[Gramphos]

:dance:

[ixnay]

Whoah, nice. :b:

:dance:

If they can make it as fun as C3C I'll be set.

[alva]

Brilliant :Party::b:

:dance:

:doitnow!: Details !!!!!! details !!!!!!! details !!!!!! :doitnow!:
:D

[Asmodean]

Hey, this is great news :dance: :dance: :band: :band: :dance: :dance:

My hopes for other titles in developement:

Sid Meier's Colonization II
Master of Magic II
Sid Meier's Dinosaurs

Asmodean

[Asmodean]

HeHe...I just posted a thread in CFC about this. They didn't even have the news yet :D

Go 'Poly :dance:

Asmodean

[PLATO]

Originally posted by DanQ

Word will spread. :)

-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS

And so it has. All I can say is...


WOOHOO!!!!

Anybody have any ideas on a projected release date??

[WRW]

Money, money, money, money, money... :rolleyes:

[Shogun Gunner]

Set Task Reminder for 12/5/05 to see how far along Civ IV is......

I want a great product too....I wonder if we are talking about a major change in play style, concepts, etc...or a incremental set of improvements or features.

[Solver]

Should have guessed that... they obviously knew they're going to make this earlier this year :).

[Skanky Burns]

:dance:

What a nice surprise! :D

[Aramis]

"Seemingly confirmed" doesn't raise my hopes. I put that one step above "probably we'll possibly develop it, maybe.":rolleyes:

[Nikolai]

Really a nice (premature) Christmas present!:D I hope that the 3rd game is SMAC2.:)

Mark: Yes, it would be nice if you covered it. But isn't that what this iste really is all about?;)

[Asmodean]

I think he was joking Nikolai ;)

Asmodean

[Shadow Dweller]

Originally posted by Vince278
Hope we are not being premature. :)

I'd like to see Master of Magic 2 and a new X-Com title (I believe Sid has the license for both). :b:
I would love for Atari to give MoM to Firaxis, but unfortunatly the Idots over at Quicksilver have been trying to get the title for a few years. I pray the don't get it after what they did to the MoO series, but who knows?

[DaveV]

I found it very interesting that Brian Reynolds wasn't mentioned once in the (fairly detailed) history of Firaxis...

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Shadow Dweller

I would love for Atari to give MoM to Firaxis, but unfortunatly the Idots over at Quicksilver have been trying to get the title for a few years. I pray the don't get it after what they did to the MoO series, but who knows?

So does anyone know who actually owns the rights to MoM. Did Infogrames Hunt Valley office own it, meaning that it is now Atari??

Or someone else entirely??

Asmodean

[The Kaiser]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Here's hoping one of the other projects is 'Sid Meier's Colonization II', as well.

:)

Beer! to that prospect as well. :b:

Hopefully they will develop the Civ4 "engine" with both games in mind.

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Asmodean
HeHe...I just posted a thread in CFC about this. They didn't even have the news yet :D

Go 'Poly :dance:

Asmodean

They do now! ;)

[MattH]

To quote someone famous: wo-ah!:b:"

:dance: :D

[XarXo]

I agree :D

[statusperfect]

One more reason to party hard this weekend!! :dance:

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Asmodean
I think he was joking Nikolai ;)

Asmodean

You're probably right.:) I have had much to do today, so I didn't read it all good enough I guess.:p

[H Tower]

so they're finally releasing Civ2.75 About time:b:

[dexters]

I have a feeling Civ4 will use the same 3D engine they licensed for pirates 2. We'll finally get 3D terran and maybe a nice dynamic 3D city view.

I know, these are peanuts, but nice additions, especially the city view. I've always wanted a more dynamic city view that reflects the uniqueness of each city, and subtleties of changes throughout the ages. Imagine watching your captial city in 3D with smoke emerging from the temples, the sun the background, and the palace off in the distance. And with each era, the buildings change etc.

I think even the bare minimum 3D card these days can do images like that.

[DarkCloud]

Yeah! Amazing!

Celebration!

(See- to all you people who said, after I started making those lists for Civ IV suggestions the month after Civ III was released- IT WILL COME!) ;)

[MrFun]

I'm looking forward to what Civilization IV will have to offer.

[Andemagne]

they are giving Xmas presents early this year. :)

[FrostyBoy]

They will have to do a major overhaul for it to be a success.

They said they were interested in Massively Multiplayer, maybe they will go 3D and have it as an MM game.

Sony was working on something similar, I think it was called Imperial or something...

[Jon Miller]

having the multiplayer sort of work liek the diablo multiplayer or nwn multiplayer might be something to think about

like have servers set up to play multiplayer on, where you can come in and out without too much hassle (and there are always peopel to play with)

and also being able to play on your home lan

Jon Miller

[techumseh]

Civ 2 lasted about 8 years before Civ 3. Civ 3 seemingly will last only about 3 years before Civ 4. Is this an indictment of Civ 3? I'm thinking it is. Discuss....

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Sn00py
They will have to do a major overhaul for it to be a success.

They said they were interested in Massively Multiplayer, maybe they will go 3D and have it as an MM game.

Sony was working on something similar, I think it was called Imperial or something...

How could they do it Massively Multiplayer? A Gigantic 10,000x10,000 Map with 1000 Civs? You'd need a Pentium 20 server to run that. :eek:

[MarkG]

Originally posted by techumseh
Civ 2 lasted about 8 years before Civ 3. Civ 3 seemingly will last only about 3 years before Civ 4. Is this an indictment of Civ 3? I'm thinking it is. Discuss.... civ3 was delayed due to microprose (who had the name rights) not having any good people(sid, brian and co) and/or resources to do it. smac with earth graphics(more or less, you get the idea) would be civ3 if the firaxians were still on mps

beyond that, notice that there is still no official announcement. pirates is already announced and coming in 2004. i'm thinking at least 2005 for civ4
civ3 was released in 2001 so that's 4 years, a pretty normal amount of time between sequels

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by techumseh
Civ 2 lasted about 8 years before Civ 3. Civ 3 seemingly will last only about 3 years before Civ 4. Is this an indictment of Civ 3? I'm thinking it is. Discuss....

Civ 2: Release 1996

Civ 3: Release 2001

8 years...I don't think so ;)

Asmodean

[Rasbelin]

Nah, not too great news. Apparently this smells like an attempt to make dosh quicker than previously with Civ. The average cycle between new titles has been 5 years. Now they seem to be cutting down on the unwritten tradition of "one new Civ every 5 years." Annoucing Civ IV in 2003 would mean a release sometime in 2005 most likely. Not in 2006 or so. One can only wonder if Firaxis is trying to become the new MicroProse with all these Civ III expansions and the rapid decision to make Civ IV. I myself don't wait for Civ IV yet. Civ II is still so sweet cuddly, while Civ III is also a good one to play.

[vee4473]

i would have been more excited about smac2

[Alex]

Originally posted by vee4473
i would have been more excited about smac2

are you nuts? only Brian Reynolds should be allowed to touch that gem...

CTRL-Cing & CTRL-Ving what I said in another (similar) thread, I'd say that ... it seemed obvious that they would work on a new civ game, apparently civ3 sold millions of copies and they will not put all their money on Pirates!, which may or may not sell...

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
The average cycle between new titles has been 5 years. Now they seem to be cutting down on the unwritten tradition of "one new Civ every 5 years." Annoucing Civ IV in 2003 would mean a release sometime in 2005 most likely. Not in 2006 or so.

Perhaps not. This doesn't seem to be an official announcement. what it says is "apparently confirmed". I've been screwed before by apparent confirmations from Firaxis, such as their apparent promise of engineers in Civ3. I would be interested in what was actually said to make this apparent confirmation.

even so, if they don't officially announce Civ4 until 2004 (almost here), that still makes a 2006 release quite reasonable to expect. seems like I waited longer for Civ3, although that was partly because Brian Reynolds left and they threw out everything of his and started over.:scared:

[Sandman]

They'd have to do some serious re-inventing to attract me back. Truth is, I almost see Civ as the space invaders of strategy.

[Maniac]

I would only buy it if it included the features that were in SMAC, but were left out of Civ3. :(

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Alex


are you nuts? only Brian Reynolds should be allowed to touch that gem...



I didn't say who i wanted to make it did i?

[Theben]

Interesting. But I'll wait and see.

[FrostyBoy]

It's probably a typo or something

The trick now is to get the word out across the world as much as possible, that could force Firaxis into actually considering a Civ4, that is, if they really aren't doing a civ4 :)

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MarkG
smac with earth graphics(more or less, you get the idea) would be civ3 if the firaxians were still on mps


If only!

[LordVipper]

<trembles> oh the joy...

[Yolky]

well i for one will not get it as soon as it comes out. maybe i will wait till the 2nd expansion pack comes out.

i have lernt my lesson from Civ3 and Moo3.

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by techumseh
Civ 2 lasted about 8 years before Civ 3. Civ 3 seemingly will last only about 3 years before Civ 4. Is this an indictment of Civ 3? I'm thinking it is. Discuss....

No. There is money to be made. Why wait an additional 5 years. Plus, I wonder how much of the legal environment affected the delay of a Civ3 re: rights to the Civilization series. Wasn't there an issue here regarding Microprose and Sid?

[Nikolai]

Yes. Sid was the one with the original idea and production, but he worked for Microprose. So the question was: Who is the owner?:p

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Yes. Sid was the one with the original idea and production, but he worked for Microprose. So the question was: Who is the owner?:p

Sid is the owner now, but bewtween Civ2 and Civ3, he was technically the designer since Microprose held the rights.

[Colonel E]

Civilization IV!

Wow... just... wow. I hope to see the return of the Multi-Maps feature from Test of Time.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Colonel E
I hope to see the return of the Multi-Maps feature from Test of Time.

I hope not. :p

[Unspeakable Horror]

Why not?

[Alex]

those multi-maps were just a hindrance to the flow of gameplay, IMO.

[laurentius]

Ditto, Boris Godunov

[kailhun]

It's been a while since I visited these boards, and it begins with good news.:D
Hope it'll have wonder-movies. I really liked the wonder-movies.

[Elias]

Hey I can get it my senior christmas!! Hey Im to impatitant for that I cant wait that long GRRRRR :dointnow: !!! Well this was actually much sonne then I expected. well I said it before it was more a matter of when then if.

[Alex]

As I posted in a thread at Civ3-General, Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/news_6085198.html) confirmed that Civ IV is on its way... it's official now, boys.

Civilization IV confirmed


Firaxis attributes devoted fans and sales of Civ III: Conquests as tipping points.

One of PC gaming's most revered franchises is back--or at least, on the way.

Responding to reports that Firaxis is not only deep into development of Pirates 2, but also prepping the next installment in its Civilization franchise. A Firaxis spokesperson confirmed to GameSpot today that, "We are in the early planning stages of Civilization IV ... truly the very beginning stages."

The spokesperson pointed to high sales of the Civilization III expansion pack, Conquests, and interest noted among fan sites as being the primary reasons behind the studio's decision to go another round with the Civ franchise. "Based on sales of Civ III: Conquests, clearly, people continue to want more Civilization. As long as people continue to want more, we'll deliver."

By Curt Feldman, GameSpot (POSTED: 12/08/03 12:56 PM)

[MarkG]

it's official now you mean that our own news posting wasnt enough??? :p

[Fosse]

It's encouraging that they're in such early stages, because it means we can still hope to influence the game.

So, MargG... when can we expect a Civ 4 Forum? :D

[Carolus Rex]

Sigh, here we go again...

Carolus

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Fosse
It's encouraging that they're in such early stages, because it means we can still hope to influence the game.

:b:

BTW, 'very beginning stages' probably means a 2006 release.

[Alex]

Originally posted by MarkG
it's official now you mean that our own news posting wasnt enough??? :p

hehe, far from it... the point is, when you have more than one source reporting the same thing, there is a good probability that thing is true... Pure induction. :)

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by Vince278
Hope we are not being premature. :)

I'd like to see Master of Magic 2 and a new X-Com title (I believe Sid has the license for both). :b:

CivIV... I wish I could say I can't wait, but the sad fact is, I can. Maybe I hyped myself up too much for CivIII. I even bought the tin for double the price of the standard edition. No amount of brushing has removed the bad taste from my mouth. I seem to have failed to buy either expansion.

As for X-Com, I was a devoted fan from UFO Enemy Unknown up to Apocalypse. It just got silly from then on. There was the promise of X-Com Genesis, but that never materialised.

My future prediction is: expect rushed, half finished franchise milkers, not innovation.

[TechWins]

BTW, 'very beginning stages' probably means a 2006 release.

I agree, and I'm glad with that, too. I'd much rather see them take as long as possible. With the upcoming C3C patch, possibly one more after that, I can easily see myself waiting till 2006.

So, MargG... when can we expect a Civ 4 Forum?

I hope soon, so we can get things rolling on all the ideas.

[Chemical Ollie]

Hey, what's this talk about Pirates II? That was one of my favorite games for Amiga, and also for my Mac Powerbook 100 until I aquired Civ1. Hey, that must have been 12-15 years ago.

Will Pirates II be covered by 'Poly? It's a strategy game originally designed by Sid after all...

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Hey, what's this talk about Pirates II? That was one of my favorite games for Amiga, and also for my Mac Powerbook 100 until I aquired Civ1. Hey, that must have been 12-15 years ago.

Will Pirates II be covered by 'Poly? It's a strategy game originally designed by Sid after all...

Question has already been asked and answered......with a no!

Asmodean

[GodKing]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Yeah! Amazing!

Celebration!

(See- to all you people who said, after I started making those lists for Civ IV suggestions the month after Civ III was released- IT WILL COME!) ;)

Yep. I remember you doing it.

Just wait, how many years will it take to get a new editor again?

Oh well. It will rock.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Earthling7
As for X-Com, I was a devoted fan from UFO Enemy Unknown up to Apocalypse. It just got silly from then on. There was the promise of X-Com Genesis, but that never materialised.


:b: I still play the three Xcom titles occasionally.

Originally posted by Earthling7
My future prediction is: expect rushed, half finished franchise milkers, not innovation.

I'm afraid you may correct. :shame:

[orange]

:b: :b: :b:

Let's get the Idea forums for Civ 4 up and running :D

[wangyushi]

It's a good news!

[The Pioneer]

This is indeed great news but I just now started enjoying Conquests, isn't a little pre mature?

Main point will be not to rush Civ IV. It is better they take their time with it, they should by now know that it will save them from a lot of headaches and after sales damage control!

So long...

PS: What about Colonization II, that would be a very interesting game indeed.

[Father Beast]

about Apolyton covering Pirates II

Originally posted by Asmodean


Question has already been asked and answered......with a no!

Asmodean

I suspect it isn't quite an absolute no, since they gave a definite no about MOO, but then later put it on.

What blew me away was that they asked if they should cover SimGolf:eek: :eek: :eek: of all things!!!

[Roman]

Hurray! This is very good news indeed! :dance:

[ThePlagueRat]

I would rather see Col.II and SMAC.II, than CivIV.
But if they actually make it more realistic and less silly than CivIII, the original... go ahead and make it!

(then I must add that Civ3 got far better with PTW and Conquest)
:b:

This time, they should consider the community's suggestions!
:rant:

[Rasputin]

hopefully civ iv will bwe MP from the start !!!!

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Father Beast

What blew me away was that they asked if they should cover SimGolf:eek: :eek: :eek: of all things!!!

LOL yeah...that game isn't really what Apolyton is about. Allthough I do enjoy it :)

Asmodean

[electro]

Well I would rather have hoped on a SMAC 2... :)
hope the make it a 3dworld(hate a round planet being drawn as a board) and make the turns simultanios så the outcome is a little depended of which place in the order you are.

[FlameFlash]

I loved the multi-map feature in ToT! :doitnow!:

CtP did it quite well, IMHO, and if you incorporate everything good in CivIII, ToT, and SMAC they'd certainly get my business...

[Robert Plomp]

That makes me return to poly ;)

[alva]

Hey Cyber, long time no see :D:b:

or as we say here;
Lang gezien dak u nog geleden heb :D ;)

[Robert Plomp]

You flemmish people really know how to ruin our language :D:D

[SMIFFGIG]

Hopefully Civ4 will be better than Firaxis's last piece of utter crap called Civ 3

but i doubt:rolleyes:

[wilebill]

Wah! (sniffle sniffle)

I wanted Alpha Centauri 2!

[hisses, turns blue, falls out of chair, thrashes wildly on floor]

[Doomed]

Civ 4 - Hurrah!

I post again after a loooong lurk because of this!

[LordVipper]

mmmm multi maps,space warfare,Loads of tech and units....
ok i am asking for too much i know but its ok,just keep including the editor and all is fine :)

[LordVipper]

now for xcom,nothing beats xcom 1. the second was TOO dificult (you cant evade death,taxes and tentaculats) apocalypse...:zzz: interceptor was nice,aftermath just average.i would love an xcom game similiar to the 1st (turn based combat) and you could pilot the interceptors.

oh,MORE MOO!!!!

[Dauphin]

How on Earth did it take me 3 weeks to pick up on this news item.

Reminder to self: Check front page once in a while rather than go straight to OT forum everytime. :wall:

[DarkCloud]

Check front page once in a while rather than go straight to OT forum everytime.
And if you do that, you'll become a deity quicker ;)

-
If you want to help out, we have a threadmaster sign up thread- I think it's buried on page two of this section ;)

Good luck! ;)

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
Hopefully Civ4 will be better than Firaxis's last piece of utter crap called Civ 3

but i doubt:rolleyes:

Huh??

Civilization III has been the best Civ game to date, IMO.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
How on Earth did it take me 3 weeks to pick up on this news item.

Reminder to self: Check front page once in a while rather than go straight to OT forum everytime. :wall:

Hey -- I thought I was the only one with that habit. :)

[DarkCloud]

Huh??

Civilization III has been the best Civ game to date, IMO.

DOWNGRADE! Downgrade! Downgrade! ;)

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DarkCloud


DOWNGRADE! Downgrade! Downgrade! ;)

:tongue:

[Capt Dizle]

Just for the record, even though this is a fanboy site where the moderators banish critics, critics who thought Civ3 sucked have valid opinions.

[AustralianJeremy]

Looking forward to it. But I'll wait for the "Gold" edition next time. Been burnt too many times...

[Sean]

Just a quick post to say this news (civ 4) has made my day.

[Flinx]

October 2006 at the earliest, preferably October 2007 otherwise why bother? Any sooner and they could just release two more expantions to Civ3, make just as much money and get the same result.

:hmmm: I'm scared :scared: to be happy :D about this news :crook: :read:

[Lambiorix_be]

Great news!

I do hope they focus on the epic games and not on scenarii like in conquests....(nor on multiplayer features):)

[VitalyB]

Pfff.. I am still waiting to Alpha Centauri 2 :(.

[angryyouth]

i cannot wait for another civ to come out. it might give the developers a chance to develop a somewhat decent diplomacy and casus belli system to replace the one that destroys the game experience for me so often

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by angryyouth
i cannot wait for another civ to come out. it might give the developers a chance to develop a somewhat decent diplomacy and casus belli system to replace the one that destroys the game experience for me so often


I think I know what you mean: When you have shared many gifts and made relations to the other AI civs very good, and suddenly for no apparent reason they declare war on you. They do this even if you can beat the hell out of them easily and then you have the silly alliances... in that case, both puny and majestetic forces assemble behind your back to swarm in from all sides. No matter how good a diplomat you are.

[Michael7586]

Personally, after the hideous CIV3 product, I don't have much hope, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised!

[Sirotnikov]

I hope they go back to the epic feeling civ I and civ II gave me.

And that it won't be boring like civ III (sorry guys) :)

[HuangShang]

so What will be new in Civ4
will they really do better, how about some graphics update, afterall, it is only a TBS, they should make everything prettier w/o raising the spec requirements too much anyway

[Chuckles]

COOL

[d=me]

Firaxis is just a bunch of cheap greedy bastards that rip off 1/100000 of a brain idiots with their so called "games" that is not any better than romance of the three kingdoms series from koei, with their civilization 3, and now they're going to make a 4? With what their infantry? tank? A guy can make a better game in his basment. How much did firaxis spend on the whole civilization 3 project with the expansions, five bucks? Because it seems like it.

[Nikolai]

:rolleyes: Anything more you would add?:rolleyes: Grow up...:bored:

[Ozymandous]

I'd also like to add my vote to hoping Sid does a Colonization II one day that is more fleshed out and deeper than the original.

I just hope that Civ IV isn't CivII with different graphics like some wanted CivIII to be... If the game play of CivIII were implemented with better diplomacy like in MOO and a few other games it would be great.

[d=me]

No, it's you that need to grow up. Playing little kid games with generic units that is extremely low in number. Can't memorize the units? Well that's your probem.

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
I'd also like to add my vote to hoping Sid does a Colonization II one day that is more fleshed out and deeper than the original.



Yep. Have you tried the C3C Age of Discovery campaign?
It reminded me a little bit about Colonization, with the treasures you need to bring home and stuff. Allthough it does use the poor Civ3 game engine, it's quite fun.

Also a great paradox game called Victoria has used some of these good old Colonization concepts, like the pops in which has different roles and stats, and the loads of different resources in which you can trade to get income, or use for production. You need for instance a number of smallarms to build a division and you need clippers and artillery pieces to build manowars, etc.

[Daveybaby]

Dont forget that the feature set is going to be drastically cut down even from CivIII, in order to be able to fit all of the required functions onto the XBox controller.

But at least there will be 3-d graphics to compensate.



thats a joke, by the way.

[Uncle Thade]

I am going to dance the happy dance all night long and then play CivIII all weekend!!!!! CIV 4 is a coming and I will kick all those little Civ's that thwart me back into pre-Civ 2 days... Yippeee Kiyay Mother&$%#@^&!!!!

:dance: :band: :dance: :band: :dance: :unworthy: :unworthy: :unworthy:

Sorry for tha little swear....

[Uncle Sparky]

(... I hope they bring back trade units & bribing !!!)

YEAH !!! :band:

[snuggs]

Too many of you seem to want Civ2 or 3 with extra baubles / refinements and that's it. I think it's time to start from the ground up, make a game that's as radical as Civ 1 was in its day. One that feels like history unfolding and not an egg-and-spoon race. I'm one of those that likes Civ 3, but whoever it was who described the whole franchise as feeling like 'Space Invaders' now has it right.

[Uncle Thade]

Originally posted by snuggs
Too many of you seem to want Civ2 or 3 with extra baubles / refinements and that's it. I think it's time to start from the ground up, make a game that's as radical as Civ 1 was in its day. One that feels like history unfolding and not an egg-and-spoon race.

I couldn't agree more. Let's hit this game right, 3D landscapes encompassing whole worlds and a game far more robust than AOE, RON, CIV 3, MOO3, but including a lot of those games features. With plenty of unique features for each CIV, no hack and slash, with sensible Tech Tree's, a plethora of Units, Wonders, Building Improvements, Terrain etc. In depth diplomacy and more powerful governmental models. I could go on. Sorry.

With the power of a lot of machines today, as opposed to when Civ was released, I think we could agree we need a beefy CIV4 that will be the pinnacle of the Civ series so far.

:dizzy:

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

You know, I think it's FANTASTIC that Firaxis is going to give us a Civ4!!! I don't know about the rest of you, though, but I would LOVE to see at least ONE more XP pack for CivIII, before they give us a completely new title-if only to give us improved diplomacy and trade!! After all, we shouldn't have to wait til Civ IV for that ;)!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[ThePlagueRat]

It would be FANTASTIC if someone more competent than Firaxis coded it.
Last time they had no idea about networking... who are they hiring these days?

[HuangShang]

rebuilding the franchise from the ground up sounds like a very good idea :b:

[lethe]

Originally posted by snuggs
Too many of you seem to want Civ2 or 3 with extra baubles / refinements and that's it. I think it's time to start from the ground up, make a game that's as radical as Civ 1 was in its day. One that feels like history unfolding and not an egg-and-spoon race. I'm one of those that likes Civ 3, but whoever it was who described the whole franchise as feeling like 'Space Invaders' now has it right.

No getting around that after a few plays you start to get the idea, and after two weeks on these forums you know 90% of the game mechanics.

Even with the original I wasn't wow'ed for very long, though I stayed hooked for quite a while.

I hope they don't burn all their energies on stuff that will blow your mind the first time, but become incredibly tedious by the third. Civ is the franchise for those of us who like to spend a few thousand hours on a game.

Ps. Going back to college was the best thing ever for my civ schedule!

[Mike.doc]

:( :naughty:
except for us, Macusers of all the world !

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by lethe


No getting around that after a few plays you start to get the idea, and after two weeks on these forums you know 90% of the game mechanics.

Even with the original I wasn't wow'ed for very long, though I stayed hooked for quite a while.

I hope they don't burn all their energies on stuff that will blow your mind the first time, but become incredibly tedious by the third. Civ is the franchise for those of us who like to spend a few thousand hours on a game.

Ps. Going back to college was the best thing ever for my civ schedule!

ever played multi player ???

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Uncle Thade


I couldn't agree more. Let's hit this game right, 3D landscapes encompassing whole worlds and a game far more robust than AOE, RON, CIV 3, MOO3, but including a lot of those games features. With plenty of unique features for each CIV, no hack and slash, with sensible Tech Tree's, a plethora of Units, Wonders, Building Improvements, Terrain etc. In depth diplomacy and more powerful governmental models. I could go on. Sorry.

With the power of a lot of machines today, as opposed to when Civ was released, I think we could agree we need a beefy CIV4 that will be the pinnacle of the Civ series so far.

:dizzy:

I go back to my warning of "be careful what you ask for"...

populous 3. decent game, but not populous. A ground up revision would not be civ, but a new game entirely. And that's great, just make it a new game and don't call it civ4.


As far as the power of machines is concerned, civ games have always been more intensive in the cpu calculation department, not the graphic department.

And as it is, civ3 WILL grind to a halt on the fastest consumer PC on the biggest map with many civs involved.

Graphically, consumer PC's can handle INTENSE amount of data, but when it comes to the computations needed to calculate everything involved in a turn with civ, no PC is there yet.

[vee4473]

oh, and I do agree that the SINGLE best improvement to civ 4 would be on the diplomatic front.

that, I am for.

[Uncle Thade]

Originally posted by vee4473


I go back to my warning of "be careful what you ask for"...

populous 3. decent game, but not populous. A ground up revision would not be civ, but a new game entirely. And that's great, just make it a new game and don't call it civ4.


As far as the power of machines is concerned, civ games have always been more intensive in the cpu calculation department, not the graphic department.

And as it is, civ3 WILL grind to a halt on the fastest consumer PC on the biggest map with many civs involved.

Graphically, consumer PC's can handle INTENSE amount of data, but when it comes to the computations needed to calculate everything involved in a turn with civ, no PC is there yet.

Let me iterate something first; Given the release time between games, (CIV II to CIV III)64 bit comps will be more common, RAM huge and 3d cards running at a GB or more, I think by the time Civ 4 is released most consumers will be hedging on 64 bit and their old p4 extreme's and AMD FX 51's will be a 1 bit post mark in history.

First Populus was stretching itself... it was hardee har har when I got it. I laughed.

My Comp never slows on civ3 with 16 civs. I have it configured at the fastest rates and nary a prob, no slow down's here. (not the typical PC, self built and config'd)

Can't wait to see how ATI buries nVidia with GB cards and where as real time data can be configured for games... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! I love hardware and CIV!

I think Civ 4 will encompass worlds and be far more than we think. If Firaxis goes the distance!!!

BTW where is Alpha Centuari 2?

[Grumbold]

Quick! We need to draw up a 4988234347 page document listing every contradictory subsystem Civ fans would like to see in Civ 4 so that Firaxis can ignore them again ;)

I'll be looking forward to the classic "we didn't feel it necessary to look at any other games in the genre" quote too.


Edit : :lol: Jumped here from the news link and posted. Open the forum and immediately see dozens of {the List} threads :lol:

[Ulyaoth]

What I really want is a Alpha Centauri 2, too bad it'll probably never happen.

[SSBLoveU]

I did a search for CivIV, and all I could find were civics sites.

[DarkCloud]

Try searchign for Civilization IV ;) or ("civilization IV" game)

[mr Rura]

Originally posted by Ulyaoth
What I really want is a Alpha Centauri 2, too bad it'll probably never happen.

why do you think so? if they end working on Colonization 2 nad/or Civilization IV, I'm sure they will start to make SMAC2.

[SSBLoveU]

Hmm . . . the magic way they trade. My pirate blood boils.

[BiggJase]

Great, after paying for Civ 3 and its expansion packs now they want me to buy another version.

If they do release Civ 4 it better have EVERYTHING that Civ 3 and its expansions have and more otherwise what would be the point in buying it. Things like having all thirty-one nations in the game at first release and not starting off with sixteen and then adding seven or eight with an expansion.

I've already spent £70 on Civ 3 I don't want to spend another £70 on the same game with better graphics.

[Abdul Alhazred]

I agree with you BiggJase ;)

I want a Civ more realistic and fun ...

I just play Civ 2 ToT a few dozain of minutes : a fun is degaged ... In playing Prince level 50/50 i leaded a few, in Civ 3 (Regent) i can't easily lead :( ...

AI is better in Civ 3 but slow !

I want Civ 4 optimized ! optimized ! optimized !

[jomateix]

A small discussion: In roman numbers is IV for expressing the number 4, but also IIII (specially used in middle ages). So, wich symbol? CivIV, Civ IIII, Civ4, or CivXP :D ?

[War4ever]

a new game done well could really help the series, another game done poorly (at first) will be viewed upon as a cash cow.....

that said, i am all for yet another version of this series...

i too would like to see colonization 2 but it seems as if it won't happen

[SSBLoveU]

Originally posted by jomateix
A small discussion: In roman numbers is IV for expressing the number 4, but also IIII (specially used in middle ages). So, wich symbol? CivIV, Civ IIII, Civ4, or CivXP :D ?

I like Civ IV.

[ThePlagueRat]

Any fresh gossip about this game?

[K.J.H.]

Originally posted by jomateix
A small discussion: In roman numbers is IV for expressing the number 4, but also IIII (specially used in middle ages). So, wich symbol? CivIV, Civ IIII, Civ4, or CivXP :D ?
cIV

[alva]

Hehe, nice one K.J.H. :D:b:

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Yes. Sid was the one with the original idea and production, but he worked for Microprose. So the question was: Who is the owner?:p Sid and a Air Force Col. started MP. How they lost it, only Sid and Company know.

[jomateix]

what about of "cIVilization", is quite difficult but is ok I think ;)

[Odin]

They better have a 3-D game engine with hex-tiles, like I wanted for Civ3. :doitnow!:

[Shogun Gunner]

What's a reasonable projected date for Civ 4? Late 2005?

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
What's a reasonable projected date for Civ 4? Late 2005? CGW tonight in the pipeline said Civ 4 2005. No month listed, there-for I will say late 2005 like Nov, 30th, and was that the date 3 years ago when Civ 3 was release?

[DarkCloud]

It takes about 4 years for every civ game to be released ;)

Civ I 1992
Civ II 1996
Civ III 2001
Civ IV 2005 ;)

[Vince278]

I'll be looking forward to Civ XVIII when I'm in my 80's. ;)

[Tassadar500]

I doubt it will go passed X

[Vince278]

Hope you are wrong. I'm not even going to speculate on a MOO4. :(

[Tassadar500]

Just think about it for a second, Civ X will be 2029 ;)

[Vince278]

The game ends at 2100? That would be time enough to go up to Civ XXVIII. :D

[Tassadar500]

This thread is quite irrelevant now, considering we KNOW that Civ IV will be released ;)

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
This thread is quite irrelevant now, considering we KNOW that Civ IV will be released ;)

Good point. :)

[Tassadar500]

For whoever has powers, lock this thread ;)

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
For whoever has powers, lock this thread ;)
:b:

[MrFun]

Civilization IV in 2005 would be fabulous.

[Robert Plomp]

We need more info on civIV
something new we can talk about for months :doitnow!:

[Vince278]

Originally posted by CyberShy
We need more info on civIV
something new we can talk about for months :doitnow!:

Brings back memories of MOO3. :(

[Joseph]

Originally posted by CyberShy
We need more info on civIV
something new we can talk about for months :doitnow!: I think it will be Jan 05 before we hear anything about Civ 4.

[Robert Plomp]

Well, what if they at least tell us that we'll hear more on civIV on jan 2005............

SOMETHING!

Did anybody e-mail firaxis recently on this issue?

[SSBLoveU]

All I was doing was mapping the world. And then these bellicose people acted strangely. I do not think there is much information on the next CIV.

[alva]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
It takes about 4 years for every civ game to be released ;)

Civ I 1992
Civ II 1996
Civ III 2001
Civ IV 2005 ;)

Dang, is Civ3 that old allready... :eek:, how time flies...

[Lord_Davinator]

hmmm... that makes me realize how old I am...

[CapStalker]

Does anyone remember Sid Meiers Pirates, If so I would like to see that title remade with all of the new technology of todays computers. But Civ IV would be a great addition to the video game library as well. Has there even been a new Pirates other than Pirates Gold edition 10 years ago.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by CapStalker
Does anyone remember Sid Meiers Pirates, If so I would like to see that title remade with all of the new technology of todays computers. But Civ IV would be a great addition to the video game library as well. Has there even been a new Pirates other than Pirates Gold edition 10 years ago.


Yes, there is a Pirates 2 coming out.

[Robert Plomp]

It's such a waste to spend time to renew games that might have been nice in those days, but are in fact more a desire for nostalgical reasons.

Spend every hour and every buck on cIV and I'll be a happy man. I'll most obviously buy the game and 2 or 3 expansion packs. Suck every dime out of me Firaxis :doitnow!:

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Joseph
I think it will be Jan 05 before we hear anything about Civ 4.

It takes time to create a new Civ game. A release in Q1/2006 is already difficult. To my knowledge they haven't started/decided yet and it is already July 2004 so....:eek:

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
It takes about 4 years for every civ game to be released ;)

Civ I 1992
Civ II 1996
Civ III 2001
Civ IV 2005 ;)
What about other Firaxis games?
Surely they didn't spend 5 years simply adding new graphics to CivII... :rolleyes:

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Lambiorix_be


It takes time to create a new Civ game. A release in Q1/2006 is already difficult. To my knowledge they haven't started/decided yet and it is already July 2004 so....:eek: Computer Gaming World still has it 2005 in release game section. I just think it will be around Nov 05, just like Civ 3 was release in Nov of 01.

[Enigma_Nova]

If they're planning to reliease it in 2005,
it will probably be around the first day of April. :p

[Tassadar500]

Does anyone know when they actually started to make cIV?

[Enigma_Nova]

Was originally started by Microprose IIRC, then later taken over by Firaxis.
I'm not sure of the dates though. :(

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
Does anyone know when they actually started to make cIV?

IV? Earlier this year I think. :doitnow!:

[Enigma_Nova]

So that means it's still in development, and has lots of room for improvements. :b:

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
So that means it's still in development, and has lots of room for improvements. :b:

Now is the time to make our opinions felt. :b:

[Enigma_Nova]

...
You -do- know they're just going to read this forum, and do whatever the hell they were going to do anyway, right?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
...
You -do- know they're just going to read this forum, and do whatever the hell they were going to do anyway, right?

This is Civ4, not MOO3. ;)
(I hope you are wrong.)

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
...
You -do- know they're just going to read this forum, and do whatever the hell they were going to do anyway, right?


That's wrong. I believe one of the Firaxians stated that they do read the forum, and take suggestions from it.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
That's wrong. I believe one of the Firaxians stated that they do read the forum, and take suggestions from it.

:b: A giant thumbs up to the Firaxians. It feels good to have even a tiny impact on how things go. :unworthy:

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
Does anyone know when they actually started to make cIV? My guess only--NO. Sid and Company know but are not talking.

[Enigma_Nova]

Nuclear Master, vince278:
I suppose I am a bit pessimistic about the issue.

But hey, I campaigned against the 24-hour day in World of Warcraft, and Blizzard still included it.

If Blizzard doesn't listen to its customers, then why would an inferior company like Firaxis do so?
Just a thought.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
If Blizzard doesn't listen to its customers, then why would an inferior company like Firaxis do so?
Just a thought.

Its still too early to call Firaxis inferior, IMHO. Blizzard has lowered my opinion of themselves years ago. Warcraft was an excellent game but they are killing it sequels and clones (Starcraft). They're all the same to me. Diablo on the other hand was an outstanding product. :)

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Vince278 Its still too early to call Firaxis inferior, IMHO. Blizzard has lowered my opinion of themselves years ago. Warcraft was an excellent game but they are killing it sequels and clones (Starcraft). They're all the same to me. Diablo on the other hand was an outstanding product. :)

Well, it is ok to make a "clone" if you improve the game and gameplay. Warcraft II and Starcraft both did this, and that latter had an incrediably good story to boot.

Diablo II though, ehh, they never really balanced that worth a darn, and it sometimes seemed like they never cared.

WC III also wasn't that great, imho, and even with the expansion it doesn't offer the strategic depth of Starcraft. The counters are too hard, so you have to build up the entire tech tree and make sure you always use counters; otherwise you are toast. Starcraft was a bit more flexible in this area, so you could play the same race in a variety of ways.

Anyhow, the important folk have left Blizzard, and I no longer consider it the great company it once was. You just have to just each game release (from any company) on its own merit. Some are hits and some are misses. Civ III was a miss, imho*, but cIV might be dead-on.

-Drachasor

*I hear Conquerers dramatically changed this though, so I'll have to get it. Heh, has anyone notice that Amazon is trying to sell the Civ III + PtW Box matched with the C3C Expansion at a reduced price. Poor fools that buy it doesn't realize they could spend a lot less money, and get Civ III for a mere 10 bucks now (and then buy C3C which has PtW in it).

[tuckson]

Hi,

Did anyone notice www.civ4.com is registered and leads back to civ3.com at the moment? According to the records it's already been registered in november 2003.

Kind regards

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by tuckson
Hi,

Did anyone notice www.civ4.com is registered and leads back to civ3.com at the moment? According to the records it's already been registered in november 2003.

Kind regards

Yep, now I noticed :) I hope this is a sign that they are preparing the start of the civ4 project.

It could off course also be standard procedure to avoid anyone to 'steal' the address in case they ever decide to create civ4. (in any case www.civ5.com does not work ;) )

[homerjsinnott]

Can we have (not another moo3) Moo4 please? (will they buy it back?).

[Toby Rowe]

Hi all,

I just went back to playing Civ III after the disapointment of RRT3.

I actually did want a logical progression from Civ II- that means as a starter the company needs to listen to what the fans of II really want. Like most companies they totally ignored them.

A Civ III made from the real Civ fan suggestions would have pleased me greatly.

If anyone wants Civ IV to be made from the ground up, lobby another company for a new game.

Almost every single suggestion made by fans of Civ I and II was utterly ignored by the company.

The strongest cry was for a real diplomacy model as mentioned above- completely ignored.

What we got was pre-ordained combat results, to counter the silliness of a tireme beating a battleship.
Now my (6 att) Cavalry unit will get beaten everytime by a Warrior (1 def) if that's what the AI has decided will happen- one daft system to another.

The AI will still try to sneak into any gap within your territory and set up a city, and still shows no sign of any intelligence in setting up cities within her own borders, two squares between each city still seem normal.

The game still rushes through history leaving most combat once you have tanks- I find combat in the dark and middle ages the most fun- you really have to plan well to execute a war.

This is a long strategic game- so leave it that way, that's why we like it!! (My main criticism of Civ- too rushed!!)

In my current game, I've shared a common border with the Germans for 2,000 years, I've seen Knights and Musketmen, yet my foreign advisor still "has no knowlege of the German military"- I've fired the lot of them, as each turn I see ample evidence of her capability, and therefore my foreign office team was clearly rubbish!

In summary, I wanted Infogrames to listen to the improvements the fans wanted in Civ II, what we got was a game made by blokes both blind-folded and using ear-plugs.

When will companies listen to the customers? This must be the only industry where customer satisfaction isn't a criterion in company policy.

Toby

[Robert Plomp]

Pherhaps someone who lives close to Firaxis should drive by and walk into their office and make friends with the developers (bring beer)

They might talk and give some good info!
Bring your photo camera and take some real screen-shots when they're playing their famous network games on the alpha version!

So, who's living close to them?

[Toby Rowe]

Mate,

How about them simply choosing half-an-hour each day to simply read the official board to see what the customer comments are? I'm sure the tea-boy wouldn't mind doing it.

I noticed with dread that you say Firaxis are making the game, so after the awful "Alpha Centuri" I'll read all reviews before buying the game.

The company needs to move on and leave us Civ fans alone, imagine one company destroying two titles. not just one. (no potential was realised with the Alpha Centuri concept as the Fireaxis game was so bad it killed it stone dead).

How on earth did they get chosen?

Toby

[Toby Rowe]

PS,

Where is an "edit" button?
I heard Master of Orion 3 was mucked up- I only own MOO2, so what did they do that made it so bad. (On any gaming site I view, MOO3 seems to be the classic example of a developer really ruining a game, but I don't know why. Was it really that bad? Which company made it, and who released it? (so I'm warned!)

Toby

[Nikolai]

1) The Firaxis guys have said that they read the forums, so no panic...;)
2) The "edit" button can be found to the left of the "reply with quote" button.:)
3) AC wasn't bad at all.:p
4) Firaxis wasn't "chosen", it owns the rights to the game.;)

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Mate,

How about them simply choosing half-an-hour each day to simply read the official board to see what the customer comments are? I'm sure the tea-boy wouldn't mind doing it.

I noticed with dread that you say Firaxis are making the game, so after the awful "Alpha Centuri" I'll read all reviews before buying the game.

The company needs to move on and leave us Civ fans alone, imagine one company destroying two titles. not just one. (no potential was realised with the Alpha Centuri concept as the Fireaxis game was so bad it killed it stone dead).

How on earth did they get chosen?

Toby

1/ AC wasn't bad at all...it was even a very good game
2/Firaxis at least is investing money in the project and the fact that so many people bought CIV3 series implies that it was good enough for millions of people.
3/ if you read all the advice given by the civ community you will notice not only that they number in thousands but also that they very often contradict each one another. It is therefor not abnormal that a lot of the advice is not being taken into acount.
4/ If you don't like Firaxis doing the game then don't buy it and wait until another company makes a similar product (although I think that the wait could be very, very long...)

[Jon Shafer]

Firaxis has always been the team that's done the Civ games, so good luck in finding someone else to do it. :p

For Civ 3 the designer and almost the entire programming team left about a year into development. That would hamper adding things compared to the previous two versions, wouldn't you say?

And when Soren referred to building the game from the ground up, he was referring to the code base, not the game concept.

[Robert Plomp]

Firaxis doesn't own the rights to the game.
Atari does. Long ago Microprose owned them, later microprose was bought by..... [forgot company]
That company asked Firaxis to make civ3.
That company was bought by Infogrames, which was bought by Atari.

So right now Atari is the owner of the civ-franchise.

[Kuciwalker]

Are you sure they own the actual "Civilization" title, and not just the C3 game?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Firaxis doesn't own the rights to the game.
Atari does. Long ago Microprose owned them, later microprose was bought by..... [forgot company]
That company asked Firaxis to make civ3.
That company was bought by Infogrames, which was bought by Atari.

So right now Atari is the owner of the civ-franchise.
Yeah, but it's always been Sid and company doing the dirty work. As I said, good luck in finding someone else to do it.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Are you sure they own the actual "Civilization" title, and not just the C3 game?
Yes, Atari owns "Civilization."

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Hi all,

Hi, Kieth.

[Robert Plomp]

Originally posted by Trip

Yeah, but it's always been Sid and company doing the dirty work. As I said, good luck in finding someone else to do it.

Well, I wouldn't name that 'dirty' work.
I think most programmers in the world would love it to do that work! And most men in the world would wish they would know how to do it ;)

[Jon Shafer]

Mere play on words. ;)

[Toby Rowe]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Hi, Kieth.

I'm not Keith/kieth.

All,

I heard that company x was hampered by company y over ownership on the "Civilisation" title in a newspaper- I assumed that argument was over.

I noticed Atari (of the US) rose from the ashes from the strength of owning a couple of names on the old machine.

I'm still annoyed Microprose was ever brought- It was an excellent development house and should have stayed independent at all costs. They were the benchmark in gaming quality for me.

About Firaxis- AC encouraged you to develop a colony, once done it slaughtered you with pollution- to the point the game wasn't fun anymore.

Trying to educate people about pollution is one thing, destroying your entertainment is another, Civ 3 also falls foul of this. I simply don't build hospitals or factories as I don't have any control over it, unlike Civ 2.

I can't even prompt workers to "only clear pollution and don't bother me again-ever!" If there is no polluted tile-great! Have a tea break and work once one appears!!

I like micro-management, but some features I also want to totally automate, or else I just won't play the game as designed. Progression through the ages and Industrialisation are keys facets of the game.

Colonisation- I'd loved that title, there were some fans making their own Col2 on the net, but work was very slow. Anyone know of their current progress?

Toby

[Max Sinister]

Freecol? They're still working on it, but it's far from finished... look yourself at http://freecol.sourceforge.net

[BigFree]

HAHA(tm)!!! What a truley lame looking game! How it plays? I dunno; but they need some help with the GI! :D

[Max Sinister]

I didn't play it yet. Be fair, BigFree. Not everyone is a graphics artist (me included). Could you do it better?

[BigFree]

No, I would do much worse.

But, it's not my job. :p The gameplay could be great, I dunno, but with it looking that way you ar not going to get many 'looks' by people who may take a peak. Aesthetics do indeed count.

[Toby Rowe]

Colonisation was released in about 1994!

It's the concept that's great, It just needs updating graphically, and now computers can deal with more than one thing at a time, even the concept can be expanded!!

Play the original Colonization, ignore the graphics, then try Anno 1503- I certainly prefer the first in fun terms.

Very simple, but very clever.

Toby:)

[Vince278]

I'll take gameplay over looks anytime. :)

[Toby Rowe]

Hi mate,

I called it "very simple but very clever", but boy did you have to struggle against the king of Britain, France or Spain- But it really was fun until Independence was declared! The fight you knew you'd win was the only boring part, avoiding a tax by moving goods around was an artform.

Something modern programmers are forgetting I feel in thinking games today is the "fun" bit.

Even we need it.....

Toby:eek:

[Robert Plomp]

Wow Toby Rowe, you apprantly don't have much knowledge on the game.

It's easy to manage polution:
- build nuclear plants or hydro plants if possible
- build environmental plants if there's no fresh water
- build recycling centers
- build mass transit systems
that will take most of the pollution away for sure.

You can set your workers to automate on polution and take a tea break. It's shift-P if I'm right.
But why not just use shift-A on all your workers? As soon as polution occurs and they have their current job done, they'll go to clean up the pollution.

I'm sorry but pollution is never a problem to me. (playing on demi-god level)

Besides that, be sure you have enough workers anyway, at least one per city.

[SSBLoveU]

I would like to play Civ IV on my Pocket PC.

(An Army just does not fit on one plane)

[Adagio]

Are there set any release date for this game?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Adagio
Are there set any release date for this game?
No.

[Toby Rowe]

Cybershy,

Sorry, you cannot fully automate workers to only clear pollution and NEVER be bothered again- If there is no pollution they become idle and hassle you.

Pollution CANNOT be eliminated, for starters, you should know Airports in this version produce it regardless of what you build. Two pollution symbols are normal.

Having to keep 3 workers on an Island just in case pollution occurs is stupid due to the Airport.

Games are meant to be fun, NOT only a trial. Cleaning up Pollution every single turn simply as you built a hospital is not fun, or even a trial, it's simply BORING.

Multiply this by 200 cities, it gets REALLY BORING.

Toby

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Cybershy,

Sorry, you cannot fully automate workers to only clear pollution and NEVER be bothered again- If there is no pollution they become idle and hassle you.

Pollution CANNOT be eliminated, for starters, you should know Airports in this version produce it regardless of what you build. Two pollution symbols are normal.

Having to keep 3 workers on an Island just in case pollution occurs is stupid due to the Airport.

Games are meant to be fun, NOT only a trial. Cleaning up Pollution every single turn simply as you built a hospital is not fun, or even a trial, it's simply BORING.

Multiply this by 200 cities, it gets REALLY BORING.

Toby There will be no pollution in Civ 4 according to Jeff. Also no corruption. Yea.

[Vince278]

Sounds good to me too. Perhaps the effcts will manifest in other ways?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Vince278
Sounds good to me too. Perhaps the effcts will manifest in other ways?
I'm sure Soren has plans to replace all of the "unfun" elements of Civ with new ones that make more sense and are easier to manage. :) After all, there wouldn't be much point in removing them otherwise. :p

[Toby Rowe]

That is very good news indeed.

I don't like playing a game and yet somehow feel as if I'm in a factory- endlessly repeating the same task over and over and over (etc) again.

I don't mind pollution as a concept, but you should be able to eliminate it by new technology (renewable energy, sulphur-scrubbers and hydrogen cars/public transport) would eliminate all city pollution- all is currently available right now here in the real world.

Nothing wrong with industrial pollution in 1790-1970- just not beyond it.

I also dream of a Civ 4 that is much slower in time, wherin most wars occur prior to 1914. Just like the real world- It really is challenging building units and executing a war in the dark and middle ages- and costly in terms of lack of technological development spending, but it really is fun. I never declare war BTW, bar once early in the game, always- I just need that little bit of land that isn't mine.....;)

Toby:)

[tentaal]

>>There will be no pollution in Civ 4 according to Jeff. Also no corruption. Yea.

Arg, What a bad idea. I hope civ4 will be as realistic as possible. Pollution and corruption must be part of the game.
Anyway it is not relly a probleme to manage with.

Great Sid :-) here is my wishes :

- trade must be improved
- sea and if desired space must be colonisable
- War units must be grouped to make army to make war much interesting (as Call to power)
- Science must go far away that modern age (also as CTP... sorry )
- Game must be faster between turns.
- It must be multiplayble WITHOUT buying a expensif add-on.

[Adagio]

I don't want sea and space to be colonisable... I hated that part from ctp...

[Vince278]

Originally posted by tentaal
- It must be multiplayble WITHOUT buying a expensif add-on.

Like a new computer. :D

[tentaal]

Originally posted by Adagio
I don't want sea and space to be colonisable... I hated that part from ctp...

To be honnest I also hated space colonizazion in CTP because it is to much cities to manage. But sea colonization is not bad. :b:

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
I also dream of a Civ 4 that is much slower in time, wherin most wars occur prior to 1914. Just like the real world

You're kidding, right?:lol:

[Vince278]

The last time the U.S. declared war was 1941. Times have changed.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Adagio
I don't want sea and space to be colonisable... I hated that part from ctp...

Building cities at sea. :q:

Building colonies (C3C style) to harvest resources such as oil, could be good. :b:

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Vince278
The last time the U.S. declared war was 1941. Times have changed.

You haven't heard of Saddam and Gulf War II then I presume?;)

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Nikolai


You haven't heard of Saddam and Gulf War II then I presume?;) We did not declare war, just gave the Pres authority to use force if necessary.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Joseph
We did not declare war, just gave the Pres authority to use force if necessary.

Semantics.

[Jon Shafer]

"War" courtesy of Dictionary.com:

"A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Trip
"A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

That explains the last wedding party I was at. :D

[alva]

quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
We did not declare war, just gave the Pres authority to use force if necessary.


Semantics.
Nope, politics. ;)

[alva]

Originally posted by tentaal
* snip *

Great Sid :-) here is my wishes :

- trade must be improved
:b:

- sea and if desired space must be colonisable

As Dauphin, some colony style :b:
As in settler--> new city style :q:

- War units must be grouped to make army to make war much interesting (as Call to power)

:b:

- Science must go far away that modern age (also as CTP... sorry )

:q:
[q]
- Game must be faster between turns.
- It must be multiplayble WITHOUT buying a expensif add-on. [/QUOTE]
:b:

[Adagio]

I'd like to see the future in Civ4, but not that far into the future as ctp does...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Trip
"War" courtesy of Dictionary.com:

"A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

Look up 'declaration'. ;)

[tentaal]

>>I'd like to see the future in Civ4, but not that far into the future as ctp does...

In Civ3 all the sciences are found too early in the game and you can make a l ot of monney because of that. This is not reallistic in the sense that in the "real world" we always search new technologies and spent monney for that.

[Toby Rowe]

Nikolai,

The first Gulf War was a UN mandate, the second not. No "declaration of war" needs to be declared if the UN mandates force.

The UK hasn't officially declared war on anyone since Poland was invaded by the Nazi's in 1939. That includes conflicts over the entire time since then, bar a few years out. The UK does want to stop conflicts now, most wars after WWII were to stop Communism, once the Warsaw Pact imploded, they were their to help civilians (Sierra Leone is a recent example). From Greece, Malaya, Boreo et al to the current day- they are there to help, not kill.

I wish the Nordic nations, along with Germany (largest Army) would help more often. Zimbabwe? Can't do it- no coast.

Anyway, back to the game- I think the world currently has 37 individual wars right now- so perhaps your implication about the number of wars pre-WWII is right- or it now gets noticed by the world by modern communication, and before never got recorded.

Regardless, wars within the game rarely happen until Cavalry occur, at least we can concur that they were actually very common within our European nations before WWI- only one since WWII- and us British stepped into that Balkan war whilst everyone else buried their heads in the sand- neighbouring Germany and Austria especially.

Blimey- that might be my play-style- Does anyone suffer war commonly before cavalry? I simply try to develop my nation.

Toby:) (sorry for the mixed post!)

[SSBLoveU]

Originally posted by Trip
"War" courtesy of Dictionary.com:

"A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

Modern wars cost millions of lives per year. In Civilization, there is no distinction between a war and conflict. A conflict or battle has few deaths, maybe 50,000 or so after a few years. Maybe, a few thousand might be killed in a political statement while an act of anarchy might kill one or many.

[Epistax]

I'm not sure what we're talking about. Hell I hardly read the previous post. That being said I'll try to make an intelligent contribution.

I'd like there to be fighting without war, and war without fighting. Why can't we get into a state of economc, political, or cultural war, instead of just militarily. Why can't we ever take over a city without war being declared, such as colony skirmishes? I'd really like that kind of thing. Often when there is a very high level of hostily between nations they'll take over eachother's villages for defense positions, or just to try to make the enemy make the first move, etc.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by SSBLoveU
Modern wars cost millions of lives per year. In Civilization, there is no distinction between a war and conflict. A conflict or battle has few deaths, maybe 50,000 or so after a few years. Maybe, a few thousand might be killed in a political statement while an act of anarchy might kill one or many.
Call it what you want, a war's a war.

[Toby Rowe]

A conflict is when two nations haven't declared war, but are fighting each other. Iraq is not an example, whilst the Falklands War (Britain-Argentina) is. Neither officially declared war upon the other.

(even if the Portugese discovered the damn islands first, but didn't like 'em!!, even if us Brits first settled 'em-) one day they will be Argentinian, It just will take time- like Gibraltar for Spain- It's merely fitting things into to the modern world- some colonies don't accept the year 2000, let alone modernity and reality. The Falklands hasn't been a Royal Navy Coaling station since WWII, and we don't use whales for Oil anymore.

The Falklands need to decide if they become independent or join the nearest nation (Argentina- 400 miles away), In the modern world "staying British" is flattering but quaint, like the rest clinging onto a Britain that no longer exists and hasn't since the early 1960's.

IMHO of course,

Toby

[Jon Shafer]

And calling "Vietnam" with its millions of casualties is just a "conflict" as well.

Nobody ever calls the American Revolution a "conflict." It's the American Revolutionary war. Why is it a war? Because two large groups of people were fighting. Not because each of them went to their congress and debated for a while and then announced to the world. Same with Vietnam. It's the Vietnam war.

"Yeah yeah, but to be correct in defining..."

Blah blah blah. It's all semantics. :p Wars don't change because of definitions. Read the definition I posted. It fits all of these and more quite well.

[SSBLoveU]

I'd like there to be fighting without war, and war without fighting

I think that is the point. Fighting should be able to be done without declaring war. Spying is the only way to do this now, but it is not the same. Some times, I do not want to declare war. I just want my friend to stop walking into my land. Also, some enemies just need a lesson rather than a war.

Also, historical differences are interesting:
50k-10k B.C. Stone age hunter-gathers did not know civilizations. Yet they could wander without the need for cities.

10k-2k B.C. Bronze age- needed cities and agriculture

~2K B.C. Iron Age- Morden Warfare deepens its roots

1200-1000 The Canaan Conflict, Iron Age
640-546 Thales of Miletus, Philosophy
605 The Battle of Carchemish and Valley of Megiddo
606-538 Babylon
538-331 Medo-Persia
331-146 Greece and Carthage Destroyed
146-A.D. 476 Rome
(All Dates Now A.D.)
376 Huns ride across Danube
395-1000 Boundary Between Eastern and Western Empires of Rome
570 -1400 The Middle Ages
570 -632 Mohammed
1000-1522 Explorers, Vikings, Marco Polo, Mongols and Columbus; New World
1500-1900 Science, British & Holy Roman Empire, North & South Asia, World Governments
1900-2000 Atomic Age, World War One and Two, United Nations, Space Age

[Toby Rowe]

Trip,

I'm often wrong and never reach for a dictionary, but a conflict is a war, within which no official war is declared between nations as I understand.

Since the UN began, a conflict is far easier for nations than a declaration of war is, afterall, if a nation officially declared war, then ignored the UN, wouldn't the world condemn them?

(If the dictatorship of Argentina had officially declared war on the UK it would have made the sinking of the "Belgrano" much easier- I personally, if I was the interfering stupid woman Thatcher was during this war (oops, conflict) would have ordered the Aircraft Carrier sunk instead as HMS Conqueror had both as choices.- Politicans ay?)

Only one was a threat, but personally I don't care if the Belgrano was sailing back to Argentina or sailing to the moon, wrong choice but no official war, so her direction somehow matters.

(The UK declared a 200 mile exclusion zone around the Falklands after Argentina invaded, this only applied to Argentinian shipping- any ship within would be sunk. HMS Conqueror was already in the region and radioed Northolt that she could sunk either an Aircraft Carrier or the Belgrano, Margaret Thatcher- a Politican - decided which or none was sunk, sitting in London. The ex-WWII cruiser was sunk, not the offshore airfield or nothing..... both were leaving the exclusion zone, but because no state of war ever existed, arguements rage on whether the crap target (Belgrano) was or wasn't sailing away from the illegial zone us British declared, which compounded the illegial invasion the Argeninians did.

Not officially declaring war can be an extremely useful choice in these modern times.

A conflict is a war, just seems like since the UN no one wants to officially declare one, not shocking but no one takes it seriously anyway due to it's colonial structure (like my nation still being on the permanent council- and yes, I'm white British.)

A permanent council that has Britain and France on it- come on!! Is a permanent council even relevant to the modern world? How about a continental system with the US and China taking a rotating presidency?- That at least would be more upto date.

Oops, rambled again,

Toby:)

[Whilst the world has changed, the UN still has "made in 1945" stamped all over it] (I feel!)

[Jon Shafer]

All I'm saying is that just because there's no DOW doesn't mean that it's not a "war." Many historical 'weapon-tossings' were never officially declared, but we still call them wars. People can call things what they want, but at the end of the day the dictionaries still define "war" as 2 or more groups of people duking it out.

Anyways, I got better things to do than argue semantics. :p

[Toby Rowe]

I'm with you on what you say mate,

BUT, I still think the lack of honesty in what's happening around the world is due to the very semantics,

Both the Falklands and Vietnam were officially conflicts, amonst many others.

Regarding Sudan; no one used the word "genocide" as that required all UN nations to act upon it immediately. Semanantics may be thus, but in the Sudan people are being killed because of wordage. I believe Colin Powell has finally has finally used "that word"- I'll watch to see if Europe is full of hot air as usual, and if the US chooses to "hold hands" with Europe on this occasion as well now the word has been said.

I'm pro-European, but I wouldn't trust a "common European defence minister" to arrange to defend my garden shed, much less intervene somewhere that the people are being slaughtered in- Britain has already seen the rest of Europe watch as people were slaughtered in the Balkans- at least we British did something whilst other nations wrung their hands.

Toby

[Ps, look at the geophical locations of Germany, Austria and Britain- which nation should have acted?, Germany needs to get off it's ass within the world- WWII is no longer an excuse that holds water in 2004, time they played a REAL part in it- and that includes combat UN missions]