quote: Originally posted by vgriph on 04-27-2001 12:57 PM What is that pentagon up to the right (where the Lighthouse was in CGW)?

A wonder?

quote: Is ther some sort of Stadium in the City?

The terrain graphics here are much better. They're not spectacular, but they're nice. I don't look at these forests and think "ug-leeeee."

I notice they're using placeholder graphics from Civ II for the citizens.

And placeholder city names for the more obscure civs. (Kerplekistan?)

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 04-27-2001 11:50 AM This is the worst piece of news I have heard about the game so far.

"If your children ask for a venomous snake to have as pet, would you as a parent give it to them?" (quote from the Bible, I think)

Please, dont interpret above as patronizing - instead, believe me then I say this:
Firaxis didnt choose max 7 simultaneously playing civs because they wanted to, but because they had to. Considering the multi-optional and open-ended nature of Civ-3, with its AI-burdening random maps amongst other things, they really didnt have any realistic choice. It really WAS an absolutely 100% necessary and correct decision to make.

Well, why not let the player choose for himself I here you say: Those who wanted to play against 16-32 simultaneously playing AI-civs could do so, while those who prefered only 4-6 AI-civs can choose that instead.
The problem here is that many very important heavyweight game-magazine reviewers would probably playtest this classic title with the new 32+ AI-civs feature right away - and base their game-reviewing AI-comments on above fact. And believe me, if they did; the AI response would be absolutely horrible. The AI in CTP-2 would be considered "quite strong" by comparison.

Please guys, you really dont know what your ask for if you stubbornly keep on demanding that this ridicules 32+ AI-civ idea should be included at all costs. I mean; at all costs??? No thanks!

the domestic screen is amazing. I love it. it seems to present all the info in a very organized clean way.
I like the detailed info about where your income and costs are coming from. You can get tribute from other civs, you can get interests.
I am glad that there is only sliders for luxury and science. The tax rate slider is probably on a different screen. But this is better because it means that luxury and science is coming from taxes not the surplus. In civ2, your luxury and science actually came from the surplus after taxes. this was not quite accurate. The science and luxury should come from taxes which seems to be in civ3. good.

About only having 7 civs. I think 7 is enough. The more civs in the game, the more strain on the AI. Th number of civs also puts more strain on your computer processor. Having more than 7 civs is NOT realistic, people!

7 civs is enough.

(One thing I missed earlier- The Space Race is still in. In case anyone doubted that.)

New info on... Trade, Resources, Culture

Resources: "When you look at the map now, you don't see that many resources. That's because they don't appear until you've researched the technology that needs them. For example, you can't see iron until you've researched iron working. And you might already have some, but it might be somewhere else.

"What we tried to do is clump the stuff. It's not spread evenly over the map. The idea is that one player can corner the market on, say, iron and he becomes a powerbroker in the game. The same thing happens with uranium, so your diplomatic relations become really important. You definately want to have friends that have the stuff you need so that you can trade with them. If not the only way to get the stuff is to attack people.

"By the time you get to the end of the game you really needto have coal, iron, oil and rubber otherwise you can't build anything. The way you develop a civilization, to a large extent, depends on where you start the game and what kind of resources you have available. If you start in an area that has iron you're in good shape at the beginning, but later on in the game iron is not enough."

Trade: You can trade in Luxuries, and resources. Luxuries goods trade is vital to keep happiness up, and resource trade (as you can see above) will be exceptionally important. Keeping peace will be more important than before, because you need a constant supply of resources to build your units. Complex diplomatic treaties and trade agreements can be arranged.

Culture: Accumulated by long-time cultural city improvements (as in last preview). Three effects:

(a) In diplomacy, a high culture rating will make other civs admire you more, and positive outcomes are more likely as a result.

(b) A high culture rating will literally expand your borders, the Greater your civilization the larger it will become.

(c) The aforementioned effect of pacifying newly conquered cities. Cities can now resist in a variety of fun and interesting ways; citizens can refuse to work, lower the defense value of the city, or revolt and rejoin their original civ.

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat on 04-27-2001 02:21 PM About the Domestic screen, is "fluff" really a tech advance or just a place holder? I sure hope it is not an actual tech advance.

The discovery of Fluff by german scientist Hans Otto von Unterhosen in 1476 heralded a new era of discovery in the textile logistics field. Although the discovery only earned von Unterhosen a minor research position in Hamburg, its implications spelled the end of the Hanseatic states as a major power, and was probably the main reason that Germany entered the renaissance. Without Fluff, Martin Luther's 99 theses would never have been written.

Reminds me of the "fluff" in the Infocom Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text game.

quote: Fluff is interesting stuff: a deadly poison on Bodega Minor, the diet staple of Frazelon V, the unit of currency on the moons of the Blurfoid System, and the major crop of the laundry supplies planet, Blastus III. One ancient legend claims that four pieces of fluff lie scattered around the Galaxy: each forming one quarter of the seedling of a tree with amazing properties, the sole survivor of the tropical planet Fuzzbol (Footnote 8). The ultimate source of fluff is still a mystery, with the scientific community divided between the Big Lint Bang theory and the White Lint Hole theory. (Footnote 8, should you care to check, informs you that it's not much of a legend really.)

Armies, hmm, seem to me like mobile forts. I liked the CtP model, and hoped Firaxis would implement something like it, only modified. Still, seeing that armies are in is absolute plus.

I want lots of new wonders, not just 'couple' of them! I think it might be seven new wonders, but we already have found out that The Internet and Grand Canal will be some of them. What else will there be?

Civ-specific units. I thought Firaxis listened to the people. (If the poll on Civ-specific units ended up with people being pro-specifics, then they are listening to people. I might not like it, but I'll acquiesce.)

Barbarians sounds neato!

quote: Originally posted by jordanz19 on 04-27-2001 02:49 PM In the city viwe I see the Pentagon outside the city walls? That is just confusing. Since there is only a few improvements, how does the Pentagon get built that early?

I think you're getting confused by the shape. It's actually a stadium (modern equivalent of a colosseum) - see earlier posts in this thread.

Great work, Snapcase! I'm off to see if I can get a copy of the magazine at my local newsagent tomorrow - but you're keeping me going in the meantime!

In the Domestic Advisor screen, it's really good to have the Civ2 Tax Rate screen combined with the City Status screen - this is a big improvement. All information conveniently displayed in one place. I like it.

The main map view is very similar to the CGW one - but I also wonder about the red circle around Detroit: just indicating that it's selected?

The info on trade, resources and culture is fascinating. Sounds as tho' you'll have to be something of an all-rounder to succeed at Civ3. No more unalloyed militarism or perfectionism. Of course I know the response to that is that pure militarism/perfectionism didn't succeed in Civ2 either! - and I agree; I just hope that the effort that's obviously gone into preventing 'single-minded' approaches to the game (like bloodlust and ICS), won't at the same time stifle different styles of play, forcing everybody into the same mould if they want to have any success at the game...

One minor beef, though, is that the roads and rivers are a little hard to see. I'd suggest making the roads a little wider and dark gray, to contrast with the greens and yellows of the landscape. (Mountains are apparently tinged with red and orange, so dark gray roads should contrast just fine.) I'd also suggest making the rivers a little wider, if possible, and maybe a little brighter. We don't want rivers becoming nearly invisible under a tile of irrigation.

• The forest tiles are different, flecks of mossy nonsense in the Washington Screenshot, Big, dense leafy things in the Baltimore screenshot, and slighty less mossy nonsense in the Detroit screenshot. The corresponding Jungle tiles are also different.

• The Irrigation tiles are different in all three, with those Teal streaks in Washington, and two different amounts of cyan canal irrigation in Detroit and Balitmore.

• The road tiles are different (this might push for an era hypothesis, actually), with squiggly roads in Washington, straight dirt roads in Detroit, and modern asphalt roads in Baltimore.

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-27-2001 04:49 PM I think you're getting confused by the shape. It's actually a stadium (modern equivalent of a colosseum) - see earlier posts in this thread.

My opinion: no way!
Inside city walls= city buildings
Outside city walls=Wonders

quote: The main map view is very similar to the CGW one - but I also wonder about the red circle around Detroit: just indicating that it's selected?