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DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted October 29, 2000 15:40   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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RELATED THREADS

Related Threads: Taking the guesswork out of the new topic
Here is a large linkage list of all threads related to each other

Acronym Decipherer:
Click here

Must Reads-
Maps-
The Map.... Again
Units-
"Unit Workshop" Module List
Civilizations-
Tribes 0.1
Tribes-
Cities 0.1
Game-
Civ3 editing tools: what do *you* want to see

1. Nuclear War
001993 warheads
001978 Nuking Opponents
001882 Nuclear War=Deserts
001781 Nuclear Weapons
001711 Why are Nukes available to everyone?
001570 Nukes (The title alone will attract you to this topic)
EC3 Fix #18 - IMPROVED NUKES

2. Map
002035 Map viewing
002034 Ice
001965 The Map...yes, I know this has been discussed before
001938 Bigger Map
001935 Globe-like world map.
001882 Nuclear War=Deserts
001866 A special resource seed request
001857 Space Colonization, Mars, Venus, Saturn etc
001855 Terrain model for Civilization III
Cities, and your Capital. . .
001741 The Map - Spherical Globe in 3D ... like Populous 3
001725 Is random maps a AI weakening factor?
001705 Please, take a vote! Pre-release an concept map-editor
001704 Irrigation, minning and roads
001674 A novel idea - Icebergs
001673 Should civ3 look like this?
001670 Damage from "unfriendly" land-types?
001660 New River Idea
001645 Rotate-able Map
001611 Automatic Polar Caps
001591 Fortifications: Digging In
001565 Zones of Control
001557 Crossing mountain ranges and rivers
001493 The Map.... Again
2a. Roads and Railways
001941 Reasonable use of terrain improvements
001788 Great Idea, Please Read!
Improved Road & Rail Rules
001706 rivers & estuary's & seastraits & bridgebuilding
2b. Borders
001959 Rivers- between, not through, map squares
001762 National Borders. . .
001690 Natural Borders
BORDERS (ver1.1): Hosted by CyberShy
BORDERS (ver1.0): Hosted by Lancer
2c. Disasters
001644 The Sinking of the Kursk and other disasters...
001637 famine should create unhappiness
2d. Weather
001930 Weather anyone?
001786 The River, The Mountain, The Weather
001593 Anything happening on the weather front?
2e. Terrain Improvements
002045 walls as TIs
001639 Fortifications
001631 Buildings outside cities

3. War
002053 please DONīT change too much!! - PETITION
002052 If Firaxis is kind enough...
002046 first civ3 units revealed!
002042 Ranged Combat
002030 Mercenaries
002007 What about a "grief-factor" over killed units, in Civ-3?
001985 Units using citizens
001970 Early start
001957 A major flaw in ALL Civ games
001950 Units, whats your thoughts??
001942 Unit evolution, a use of the veteran status !
001931 spies, railroads, nukes, world, final frontier... stuff
001906 Getting Lost
001904 Capturing Units
001863 Improved veteran status
001811 How to make going to war Harder
001794 Level of Realism in War
001764 Combat...
001751 Taking over city
001743 War & progress
001701 Deserters
001700 Tactic Upgradees
001695 Clear the road!
001694 Capturing Units
001650 Advanced Tactical Warfare
001633 Supply for military unit
001628 Military units - too much micromanegment
001586 Supplies
001577 Missile Defence Shield
001156 Unit Facing/ Formation
EC3 New Idea #34 - Automatic Patrolling
Trading Military Units
Seizures
Getting Lost
Unit Support

3a. Units
002002 Unit appearance
002001 Units
001852 Army Corps of Engineers
001763 Units units units!!!!
001761 Ranks in the Military. . .
001703 Land/Sea Mines
001684 Stacking units
001608 Make different Armor types?
001601 Yet Another Unit Idea...
001554 More use of damage points
UNITS v3.0 (hosted by technophile)
Refueling

3b. Production
001841 Production
001749 Unit Production
3c. Unit Workshop
001962 Units and the Unit Workshop
001879 Vehicle Chassis, Ship Chassis, Chassis Ideas
001738 unit workshop
001627 "Unit Workshop" Module List
001617 Millitary Design Modules
001613 Civ Customized Units?
001602 A Civ III Unit Workshop Model
001587 Military design.
Unit Construction
3d. Unconventional Warfare
001961 Engineers and Building cities
001867 New Unit for Civ 3 Idea
001828 Fifth Columnists
001805 Terror
001731 Espionage
001596 Commando Units
3e. Air Warfare
001940 Chassis Idea: Balloon; Improvement Idea: Balloon Defence.
001905 Air Warfare
001802 Radar Stations/Spy Stations
Air Combat
3f. Leader Units
001862 Whats the biz with Armies, Generals, Campaigns?
001808 Leaders... please read you oldies
001708 Mining Gold and Heroes are Vital
3g. Refugees
001979 Refugees
001795 Refugees
001656 Q: Smacx has "refugees??" - how about CivIII?
3h. Sea Warfare
001822 Submarine Warfare

4. Game
002036 Clickomania! Learn the lesson, Firaxis!
002032 Miscellanous Suggestions from a Veteran Scenario Builder
002031 Langoliers
002029 Enjoy Civ3 or Civ10?
002026 the ea-sports model
002022 Barbarians
002020 Happiness Pool
002016 Slavery
002009 Your empire, the challenges that civ-3 should have
002003 How many units can stay on one tile?
001992 Quotes with advances
001986 Pollution
001975 I might have solution for 64 civs, not working on slow comps
001969 Corporations
001968 Underground, Underwater cities and other ideas
001963 Population Density, ICS Physics-ish solution
001947 'Artificial' Intelligence
001943 Victory Condition: Unity
001934 Public Works Or settlers/engineers???
001924 new idea: utopia society
001919 Column #142; By Raingoon
001916 File Formats (Scenario discussion)
001915 Fundamental philosophy of an empire building game II
001912 Civ-3 Windows-style interface with skins, anyone?
001903 Plague
001888 windowed vs non windowed.
001883 What does Civilization mean?
001872 a couple my thoughts
001864 Civers Edition vs. Standard Edition
001861 MP3 Music in Civ3?
001859 Countries, culture and technology
001844 Global concerns
001835 Replay after the game. (ala Civ 1)
001832 Mantra for Civ3: Simple yet Complex
001831 Some unwritten gamedeveoping rules of thumb
001826 Replay Mode
001825 The Theory of FUN
001810 Game Scoring
001799 Strategy vs. Tactics
001775 Poll: Strategy-game or a world-history simulator?
001748 One small thing that may have been mentioned (Find City Option)
001742 When will Civ3 end?
001732 Civ-3 is installed and you about to doubleclick that shortcut...
001729 Theory on Strategic Gameplay - KISS? or KIRS?
001721 pbem - game server
001713 About slowly changing time/era-related premises
Strategic Oil Reserve
2-Player Civ
game progression suggestion
The concept of Slavery (also: hut-popping)
What's your platform?
Mutually assured distruction
Major End game inbalance.
Borrow from other games....
I found another error with the game, anyone notice this before?
Multiplay only Civ3
How about a Journal?
Ministries
New Commands
Starting Over
More action
Strange Encounters of the Pathetic AI kind
Real Time Civilization?
Replayability
Life After Death
Provinces
Country Side and Towns
City and unit limits
Civ III Engine Proposal
The all time greatest idea: Replay movies...
throne room
History book as an ending of the game
CIV III as an RTS !?
How to portray the rise and fall of great powers in Civ3
Civil Wars in CivIII
EC3 New Ideas - Final Drafts
EC3 Fixes - Final Drafts
EC3 New Idea #37 Disease
SE MODELS v3.0 (hosted by no one)
RADICAL IDEAS (ver 2.0): Hosted by korn469
Disease
Limiting Micromanagement
Water Supply

4a. Scenario Editors/ Game Editors/ Map Editors
Civ3 editing tools: what do *you* want to see
13th POLL: Editors for maps/ scenarios/ units/ graphics/ game texts?
Scenario Creation
Game-editor
A faster scenario-editor could save the day
Civ3:Suggestion2 - World Creator Utility
scenarios, scenarios, scenarios!!!!!!!!
Scenario editor - What does it need?
4b. Operating Platforms
Civ 3 for...
Will There Be a Macintosh Port of Civ III?
4c. High Council/Advisors
You? or President?
Military Advisor Screen
Council Notifications
Secretary of Defense
The Civ 3 High Council?
4d. Graphics
3D Graphics, do we really need īem
2D or 3D Animated Maps
Editing graphics files
HOLD ON EVERYONE! Great Graphics Idea.
4e. What not to have in an Upgrade
"Improvements" that would stop you from buying the game
The art of destroying a game-upgrade
NO Change fo the sake of Change!
4f. Turns
800-1000 turns in CTP-2 (confirmed). What about CIV-3?
turns again
More ancient turns
Taking ages. . .

5. Civs
Spontaneous Starts
Dynamic Civs
Improvement-related empire size limits?
Extraterrestial Civs
people percents
Unlinking personalities to A.I. civs
Huge Maps/More Civs
Just Figgured something out!!!
Restarting Civs : More Realism
"Custom" option for AI civs
A newer more greedier Civ...
A treiste on traits
Civ Differences
Tribe Colors Idea
The Creation of Differences between Civs.
List of Civilizations
Off-Map Civilisations
Tribes 0.1
Should civ attitudes affect trade?
Civ 2 Standard Changes
civ3 to include a full set of nationalities
New poll: Number of civs
Civilizations version 3.0 hosted by Me
More realistic civ splits
Colonies
5a. Revolutions
Yet another Revolution Thread (Chose your own Adventure!)...
Government, revolutions, and structure and policy part 1
Cities in Disorder succeed from the Union
Revolutions
EC3 New Idea #16 - Rise and fall of empires
5b. Governments
A new SE proposal !
Down With "Prepared Governments"!
Government
Political Victory
Coalition/ Emergency government
Governments
The Communist Problem
5c. Government Heads
Role of personalitys/leaders

5d. Diplomacy
What's wrong with 99% of Diplomacy (IMO)
Trading Units
More on econ, and diplomacy, less on warfare
Political Victory
Diplomacy
Diplomacy at Work
opponent attitudes
A better diplomacy
Bitter wars, bitter enemies...
Levels of diplomacy
Diplomacy
Diplomacy with other nations
Diplomacy - new summary, 2.21
Diplomacy - Atrocities
Diplomacy - spy operations
Diplomacy - list of treaties
Diplomacy - trade menu options
Diplomacy - diplomacy screen options.
5e. Government options
More Government Choices
New Governments
Governments, policy and structure part II - Demcratic/Republican
Civ3 - Suggestion 1: United Nations
Three-Party System in Democracy
Election to the U.N.
5f. Natives/Tribes/Minor Civs
2000th Idea!
1st, 2nd, and 3rd World Countries
Native Agression
Down with "Minor Civs"!
Native peoples
Natives
5g. Number of Civs
A software engineerīs answer to the 32+ civ issue
Re:Speeding up the game with 100+ Civs
Speeding up the game with 100+ Civs
How many players should civ3 support?

6. Wonders
Personal wonders
Wonders
Allies sharing wonder abilities
The Internet: A Wonder or a Tech Advance
Wonders Of the World
Different Types of Wonder
Wonder Movies
New Seven Wonders Project & Poll
Demi wonders
The Big,Big,Big List of Wonders
West Point, ROTC and other wonders
'Dud' Wonders
The Olympic games wonder
Top 10 of new tech
Feats of Wonder (a CTP2 idea)
civ 3 needs superwonders to change tech tree
Missile Defence Shield
Do we Need Wonders
Missing wonders
***TECH TREE***: Wonders of the Modern Age
***TECH TREE***: Wonders of the Industrial Age
***TECH TREE***: Wonders of the Renaissance
***TECH TREE***: Wonders of the Ancient World
Wonders of the World
Lessons for civ3: interesting buildings and wonders
Future age of Wonders?
WONDERS (ver 2.1): Hosted by EnochF
Wonders o' the world... the root of all evil?

7. Tech Tree
Forgotten Techs?
Civ III and Beyond...
Prereq for techs: having available resources
Advanced Tech Tree
More Advances
Making maps before mapmaking?
Knowledgeyou don't understand
Two Things I Want to Say
Back to the Future - Civ 3.
obtaining tech from others
***TECH TREE***: General Discussion
The tech tree
A More Diverse Tech Tree
7a. Research
Tech Effect by Age
Exploration=Science!
Science Teams
7b. Technologies
My complete technology tree
Tech List 0.1
Future Tech
Let's talk techs...

8. Trade
Trade=Production
Linking economics, alliances and warfare
More on econ, and diplomacy, less on warfare
Trade
Simultaneous, Market-Based Trade
Currency Trading
How to improve Trade: Non-Camelicidal methods
Why Save The Camel: A game perspective
Save the camel !!!!
Need money? Intermediate trade!
Commerce with armament
Trade Units
Trade=Tech-Research
A trade model 0.0
A Trade Model -- Give this a look
New Types of Trade
About caravans
Tradewindow.
Comprehensive revamp of trade and infrastructure
A few thoughts about natural resources and trade.
Making Trade part of Production
Overseas Profits

9. Space
Space Ship
Joint Spaceships and Alliance wins for multiplayer
Space-based SDI
Space Age

10. Religion
Monotheism
Religion
Religions as AI-controlled powers
RELIGION v3.0 (no host)

11. Cities
255 City Limit
The pitfalls of expanding city-areas in Civ-3
City radius/boarder/colonization
Revolutionary Civ Ideas
Funding of city improvements
Catastrophes preventable by improvements
More places for Cities
Finding Resources\Placing Cities
Secret Bases (from which to spread chaos)
City Specific "Build List"
Cities 0.1
We Need Longer City Names!
prereq's
Secret Internal Affairs
Get rid of the 21 squares...?
EC3 New Idea #24 - Expanding City Radius
Unique Cities
City Size on the Map
13a. City Improvements
building obsolete buildings
City improvements
City Parks and National Parks
seaport and airports
Add the olympics??? your thoughts
Power Plants
13b. Too Many Cities; Solutions; ICS Solutionmodels
Too Many Cities?
Another "ban ICS" thread
ICS problem - a solutionmodel
The ultimate ICS thread: analysis and solutions
13c. City Screen
City View
Firaxis - eliminate heads working in tiles !
Occupations of citizens
Where's all the farmers?
How to improve the city model?
Energy and production

[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 07, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 07, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 20, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited November 26, 2000).]
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[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited December 10, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited December 15, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited January 16, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited February 21, 2001).]

jrhughes98
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted October 29, 2000 21:22   Click Here to See the Profile for jrhughes98Click Here to Email jrhughes98  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit jrhughes98's Homepage!
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Gee, thanks DarkCloud! This list is VERY helpful!!

------------------
JRH
[This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited October 29, 2000).]

UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
posted October 30, 2000 00:00   Click Here to See the Profile for UltraSonixClick Here to Email UltraSonix  send a private message to UltraSonixSend a Message to UIN: 97330588 Visit UltraSonix's Homepage!
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Now I don't have to do anything!

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
posted October 30, 2000 04:28   Click Here to See the Profile for UltraSonixClick Here to Email UltraSonix  send a private message to UltraSonixSend a Message to UIN: 97330588 Visit UltraSonix's Homepage!
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By the way, I think this thread should be made sticky (but don't tell AH about it). It'll be able to serve as guide of sorts to any newbies that arrive here so threads are repeated less often.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

Shadowstrike
King
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Jul 2000
posted October 30, 2000 18:10   Click Here to See the Profile for ShadowstrikeClick Here to Email Shadowstrike  send a private message to Shadowstrike Visit Shadowstrike's Homepage!
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Sorry about the Tech Tree DarkCloud...

I totally forgot about it...

I'll get on it right now...

DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted October 30, 2000 20:13   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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Thank you everyone for your support, yes perhaps we can get Markos to sticky this thread...

I am updating it as of... now.

tonic
King
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Jun 2000
posted October 31, 2000 02:02   Click Here to See the Profile for tonicClick Here to Email tonic  send a private message to tonic
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I have to add my accolade for the fine hard work. For anyone entering this active forum, this is a must with so many criss-crossing threads.
MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Macedonia, Greece
b.02-15-99
posted October 31, 2000 02:06   Click Here to See the Profile for MarkGClick Here to Email MarkG  send a private message to MarkGSend a Message to UIN: 2865183 Visit MarkG's Homepage!
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to the top!

one request: can you make link to the actual threads???

Tiberius
Warlord
& Tradelord
Jan 2000
posted October 31, 2000 02:14   Click Here to See the Profile for TiberiusClick Here to Email Tiberius  send a private message to Tiberius
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Nice work, DarkCloud.

I wanted to suggest to make links to the threads, but somebody has just arrived before me with the proposal

Vrank Prins
Chieftain
Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
posted October 31, 2000 07:38   Click Here to See the Profile for Vrank PrinsClick Here to Email Vrank Prins  send a private message to Vrank Prins
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Great,
I've seen that the "Apolytonions" asked if it was possible to link things up. Maybe things could also be alfabetically indexed. And if you need any help with that ....
Shogun Gunner
Warlord
Fairfax, Virginia
Oct 2000
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Very comprehensive list. A must read. Good work, DarkCloud.
DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted October 31, 2000 11:56   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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Thank you for your offer, Vrank, if you want to make an alphabetical list; go ahead...

Hopefully I can make a hyperlink list, I'll work on it.

Thanks Mark for stickyifying this thread!

UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
posted November 01, 2000 05:11   Click Here to See the Profile for UltraSonixClick Here to Email UltraSonix  send a private message to UltraSonixSend a Message to UIN: 97330588 Visit UltraSonix's Homepage!
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DC you simply must link this thread under "wonders": Do we need Wonders?

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

Tiberius
Warlord
& Tradelord
Jan 2000
posted November 01, 2000 12:40   Click Here to See the Profile for TiberiusClick Here to Email Tiberius  send a private message to Tiberius
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quote:

Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-01-2000 05:11 AM
DC you simply must link this thread under "wonders": Do we need Wonders?

Hey, thanks Ultra, that was my thread.
Of course TheLimey had the original idea and Ultra the best posts , but it's still my thread. I feel very proud.

UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
posted November 02, 2000 18:52   Click Here to See the Profile for UltraSonixClick Here to Email UltraSonix  send a private message to UltraSonixSend a Message to UIN: 97330588 Visit UltraSonix's Homepage!
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Oh yes, Civ III Engine Proposal is also a very important thread - it's the best thread that I've personally seen here (for entertainment mostly, though ).

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted November 02, 2000 20:16   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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Do you like how I redid the Wonders section; or should I keep the thread numbers beside the thread name?
UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
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The wonders section is very good - there's no point having the thread numbers, because who needs it?

Now you've just got to do it to all the threads!

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited November 03, 2000).]

Tiberius
Warlord
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Jan 2000
posted November 03, 2000 07:03   Click Here to See the Profile for TiberiusClick Here to Email Tiberius  send a private message to Tiberius
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DarkCloud, I thought maybe you want to add the following links:

Essential Civ3 List - New ideas

and

Essential Civ3 List - Fixes

There are a lot of great ideas there, and maybe the new Apolytoners should know that these ideas were sent to Firaxis.

Builder
Settler

Feb 2001
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wow!

nice list...

Paulypav
Chieftain
Rocky Point, NY, USA
Oct 2000
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Thanks for the listing. Definitely keep the wonders section the way it is. Hope you are able to find the time to update the rest of the list the same way.

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"In war, there is no substitute for victory."
- Douglas MacArthur

DarkCloud
King
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Jul 2000
posted November 03, 2000 20:49   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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Okay, thank you for the links Tiberius, I will add them to the list eventually. (ie within a few days)
Shadowstrike
King
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Jul 2000
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I added some stuff to the Tech List 0.1... if somebody would be so kind a to BUMP it...
Seeker
King
Canada(UWO)
b.02-15-99
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Hmm...? No Trade threads on simultaneous, market based trade like in Imperialism 1?!

I will have to do something about that...

SOC
King
Canada(UWO)
b.02-15-99
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As a newbie, I must ask (cauz I really don't know). Does adding to the lists make a difference now for CivIII, other than making for an interesting discussion?
UltraSonix
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 2000
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Actually, we have no idea whether our discussions now are making a difference, but certainly, if you have an idea/comment/etc post it in this forum's thread and not in the List forum.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

MidKnight Lament
King
Melbourne, Australia
May 99
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quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius on 11-03-2000 07:03 AM
DarkCloud, I thought maybe you want to add the following links:
Essential Civ3 List - New ideas
and
Essential Civ3 List - Fixes
There are a lot of great ideas there, and maybe the new Apolytoners should know that these ideas were sent to Firaxis.

These should definitely be in there. Rather prominently, I'd suggest (Sorry if they already are, but I couldn't see them.)

DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted November 06, 2000 16:13   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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MidKnight, they are there; if you go to "Edit/Find" you will find EC3: New Ideas and the other one.
Maccabee2
Chieftain
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Sep 2000
posted November 06, 2000 18:18   Click Here to See the Profile for Maccabee2   send a private message to Maccabee2
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Cool! Thanks for the topics list, Dark Cloud!
DarkCloud
King
of Clouds
Jul 2000
posted November 06, 2000 20:29   Click Here to See the Profile for DarkCloudClick Here to Email DarkCloud  send a private message to DarkCloud Visit DarkCloud's Homepage!
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You are welcome.
tonic
King
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Jun 2000
posted November 07, 2000 00:18   Click Here to See the Profile for tonicClick Here to Email tonic  send a private message to tonic
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quote:

Originally posted by Vrank Prins on 10-31-2000 07:38 AM
Great,
I've seen that the "Apolytonions" asked if it was possible to link things up. Maybe things could also be alfabetically indexed. And if you need any help with that ....

Worthwhile idea. I find the listed threads under their numbers and titles not too easy to trace and retrieve. A clickable link would be most helpful and it looks like help is already been offered for this job .

yin26
King
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted November 09, 2000 05:50   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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