"Elite Units:
History: Throughout mankind's long history of warfare, various societies have developed unique units which enabled them to create or defend their empires. The characteristics of these units are remembered to this day, and their role in civilization is represented by the Medieval Pack II's Elite units concept.
Stats: When a civilization acquires the enabling advance for an Elite unit, it has a random chance of gaining the ability to build it. If it does gain the ability to build an Elite unit, it loses the chance to build any other Elite unit of the same Age (though it is still elibile to gain Elite units of other Ages). Also, only one civ may have the ability to construct any given Elite unit. In addition, some Elite units come in pairs (Zulu Warrior and Zulu Peltast, Berserker and Longship, and Arquebusier and Bombard). The individual stats and abilities and all Elite units are given in the Special page of the Med charts spreadsheet."

I believe that this is one feature that the Med pack will be well remembered for, along with the unit heal trigger which more experienced civ'ers will appreciate.
Chris (Gedrin) has started work on it, now that he has finished the refugee trigger. I guess this would be a good time to cover that trigger as well. This is from the Triggers readme:

"Chris converted his Ctp1 Refugee trigger over to Ctp2 format for the Medpack II. This trigger takes one quarter of a city's population, rounded down, and gives it to a random city in the civ right before the city is captured. This means that the pops may be sent to the same city from which it originated (you know how confused people get when they panic). "

I will let you think about how this will affect gameplay and cause problems for both the winning and losing civs. It is another feature that makes conquest more difficult (and realistic, imo).
If we have time, I want to implement a trigger which destroys up to half the buildings in a city when it is captured, ala civ2.

Between the triggers for unit healing, refugees and this one, the nature of conquest will be drastically changed in the game.

I don't know what the ship crash would be from.

I usually don't notice if emoticons are used in a post icon, this not being the OT, so I was confused over David's post initially. I seemed to remember that he had a conservative reputation on the OT when I frequented there a couple of years ago. Anyway, things made more sense when I noticed the wink.

First the militia:

Militia can still be moved as you know. And I have said this before but I will say this again. You can move militias with keyboard. Can you read this... Keyboard. Huhuu keyboard! I hope you are not humorless person.

But what thew hell happened to the working militias. Now when I get phalanx my all militias(of course) dies but I do not get a new ones(like phalanx). So after phalanx I do not have militias. Unless I build a new city there will be phalanx militia. This worked with the previous version but not anymore. Is there any ways to see medmod's version number from the game? I am "sure" I have installed the new version If there is no way could you add new method/function tha can be triggered from the chat window(like /show_mod_version)?

AI settlers:
Are they in withdraw contract or could they be got to the withdraw contract? I mean if I say "withdraw your troops" to AI and he accepts that after a while his settler will be in my territory again. I think this annoys many players. So would it be a good idea to add settler units into the withdraw contract?

I tried to seek this from the manuals but I did not find this out. But I remember I read somewhere that you can only have 4 or 5 conversations per AI in turn? Is that right? I think I had5 or 6 conversations with the same AI in one turn. Is this a bug?

And I have said this before too. If someone(AI) finishes a wonder and I was doing that wonder too I will lost all my production points in that city. Should it be so? I think this is not a good idea? Or maybe you should only lose a half of your production points?

It was 5th round and I got the first message saying that AI started to build Temple of Karnak. 6th round the other AI started to build that wonder too. Is it really a good idea that AIs starts building wonder this early? If it isreally a good thing for AI then it is but this seems a little bit odd to me.

That was all again.

quote: Originally posted by janilxx on 04-17-2001 01:49 AM Wes I really hope you read this. You have skipped my postings too many times

I have been meant to say something about this topic for a while, but I could never remember to when I sat down to write.
This goes out to everyone: Each and every post here is read by me. A majority of the things posted may not be directly replied to, for a number of reasons, but they *are* read.
If someone notices a bug or a setting that obviously needs changing, then I will usually reply directly to them in my next post. Other times, I will make a note of their observation, and check it out the next time I play the game. If I decide to change something, you will see it in the next update. I may not refer to the person who alerted me to the problem, but I hope you guys are posting so that we can make the game better, and not for personal recognition. If someone posts about a game imbalance, and I find that it *is* balanced imo, then I may not reply to it. It takes me about 30 to 60 minutes to make these posts as it is, and I have to spend that time in the most efficient manner. If several people chime in with the same opinion, then I usually modify the game to correct this, though it may take a few days or a couple of weeks (see my next list of game changes). Then there are times when people report *bugs* that are explained in the readmes. I hope you understand why I don't take 20 minutes a day typing in the readmes again. Occasionally, though, I do forget to comment on something that needs to be addressed.
Note: Many people seem to think that the word miscellaneous means "not necessary to read". This is not true. All the stuff in every readme is there because you *need* to know about it. To help with the debug item, I have explained it in the Intro file alongside the installation instructions, so that more people will see it.

quote: First the militia: Militia can still be moved as you know. And I have said this before but I will say this again. You can move militias with keyboard. Can you read this... Keyboard. Huhuu keyboard! I hope you are not humorless person. But what thew hell happened to the working militias. Now when I get phalanx my all militias(of course) dies but I do not get a new ones(like phalanx). So after phalanx I do not have militias. Unless I build a new city there will be phalanx militia. This worked with the previous version but not anymore. Is there any ways to see medmod's version number from the game? I am "sure" I have installed the new version If there is no way could you add new method/function tha can be triggered from the chat window(like /show_mod_version)?

I have tried moving the militias, and have never been able to do so. Can you move them any time, from the very start of the game? If you become able to move them after the upgrade bug appears, that may be explained. If you can move them from turn 1, then that is disturbing. I have tried to move them a couple of times in my games, and I never can. When Wouter first made out the militia code, he said that the slic2 had functions that kept them from being moved, period.
There has never been a bug-free version of the militia code. You may have gotten lucky and had a game where it worked correctly, but the code was buggy. Wouter is working on this, but he has been very busy with school lately. The code has gotten so complex that I can't even follow it any more, so I leave that part of the game to him. I am waiting just like you guys for him to find the problem.

quote: AI settlers: Are they in withdraw contract or could they be got to the withdraw contract? I mean if I say "withdraw your troops" to AI and he accepts that after a while his settler will be in my territory again. I think this annoys many players. So would it be a good idea to add settler units into the withdraw contract? I tried to seek this from the manuals but I did not find this out. But I remember I read somewhere that you can only have 4 or 5 conversations per AI in turn? Is that right? I think I had5 or 6 conversations with the same AI in one turn. Is this a bug? And I have said this before too. If someone(AI) finishes a wonder and I was doing that wonder too I will lost all my production points in that city. Should it be so? I think this is not a good idea? Or maybe you should only lose a half of your production points?

All land units should be in the withdraw contract. If the AIs are repeatedly tresspassing, you will have to deal with it as you see fit.
You can have 4 conversations with each player per turn. If you can confirm more than this per turn, then it is a bug, though I don't know how to correct it, since the code says 4.
You won't lose your production if you have another item in the queue below the wonder. The concept of losing all production is supposed to be in the game, from what I can tell (there is no setting for it that I can find).

quote: It was 5th round and I got the first message saying that AI started to build Temple of Karnak. 6th round the other AI started to build that wonder too. Is it really a good idea that AIs starts building wonder this early? If it is really a good thing for AI then it is but this seems a little bit odd to me. That was all again. -Jani

The AIs should not be starting wonders that early, but sometimes they do. There is nothing that I know to do about it, and I have tried. One time when I used cheat mode to check out the AI who did this, I found that he was stuck on a small island, and did not have enough room to expand normally. I think the ai routines default to wonder-building if the criteria for building other things is not met.

Moving a unit:

[\ctp2\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\mm2.scenario.slc:383:Array index 0 out of bouts]

Ending a turn:

[In objekt mm2_EveryTurn, variables ´mm2_EveryTurn#tmpcity´and ´noname´are of different type]

This message is followed by the first one. What I am doing wrong? I am using the german version. Hope this doesnt cause the prob. Copyed the files from the "english" folder in the coresponding german one.

These things are discussed better after these items.

- When does militiias move with numpad(arrowkeys)? In turn 1? Or only after you get phalanx?
- Does the militias move when they are in army and you try to move the whole army?
- How many conversations you can have in turn with the same AI? Should be 4 but there might be a bug

quote: I have tried moving the militias, and have never been able to do so. Can you move them any time, from the very start of the game?

I have tried to move militias only few times. Select the militia(only militia no other troops in army) and then use arrow keys or numpad(I suppose I have allways used the numpad) to move the militia. This way I have tried few times to move militias and militias have allways moved. I have not tried to move militias in the turn 1 or 2...

Someone said that he could move militias(with mouse?) when militias are in army and you are moving the whole army. I tried this "a long time" ago too and militias really moved then. I do not know if this is fixed now.

quote: There has never been a bug-free version of the militia code. You may have gotten lucky and had a game where it worked correctly, but the code was buggy.

Ok. I was lucky sometimes when I got the game where I had Phalanx militias working(when I got phalanx technology and spearmen militias get killed I got phalanx militias). This was in previous version(27th march etc?).

quote: The code has gotten so complex that I can't even follow it any more, so I leave that part of the game to him.

Maybe you should make some kind of code templates. All medmodders should use the sime kind of indents, variable names etc.

quote: Are AI Settlers in withdraw contract or could they be got to the withdraw contract? All land units should be in the withdraw contract. If the AIs are repeatedly tresspassing, you will have to deal with it as you see fit.

Could you or someone other medmod maker check this from the code? I mean that it seems that AI does not think settlers belong to the contract. Please check this from the code. Please I am begging you.

quote: I tried to seek this from the manuals but I did not find this out. But I remember I read somewhere that you can only have 4 or 5 conversations per AI in turn? Is that right? I think I had5 or 6 conversations with the same AI in one turn. Is this a bug? You can have 4 conversations with each player per turn. If you can confirm more than this per turn, then it is a bug, though I don't know how to correct it, since the code says 4.

I am pretty sure I had more than 4 conversations in same turn with the same AI.

quote: You won't lose your production if you have another item in the queue below the wonder. The concept of losing all production is supposed to be in the game, from what I can tell (there is no setting for it that I can find).

Ok I have to try to remember this. Maybe this could be said in medmod manual?

I am sorry to said this but actually I am not sure have I seen a lot of good changes yet. There have been MANY changes and when they have been fixed to work properly I am pretty sure I will be glad. But now, of course because this is beta, I have not got as much as I hope to get someday.

Damn I am negative again. Maybe I just try to say that you guys are doing very great job there and I hope you will fix a lot of things before you remove the word "beta". Don't release a buggy medmod until you have fixed bugs. And after that you can start to make additions(pirates etc) and then release MedMod2.

What the am I talking about. Just keep on good work and good luck and thank you for doing this mod.

This update contains all the new unit pics that Hex made for the modpack (I managed to make the Trireme pic myself). The Ctp1 Marine that I added in the last update is still included in this update, for those of you who missed the last update.

There is a whole list of things in this update. Players will have to start a new game after they install this update, so you may want to take that into account before you install.

I have added messages to tie old the orbital lab feat to public schools. I also adjusted messages to try and account for the fact that spies can sue, and the new Partisan and its abilities. I have had trouble getting these messages to work, however, so if you see messages which say "unitrecord[0].name" instead of the unit's name, let me know. I can also use some advice from you if you know why some messages work, and others don't.

I fixed the last remaining alphabetical errors in the units and tile improvements sections of the GL.

Unconventional units:
I did not realize that assassinations caused anarchy, so I have removed that ability from Partisans. I also reduced the cost of inciting revolutions by 30%.
To reply to the withdraw question- I *think* that there is a setting which keeps AIs from settling inside your borders. This means that if settlers are crossing into your territory, they are trying to get to the other side and settle there. I want to keep the exception for civilians, for the reasons Dale mentioned.

Air units:
I ran some tests, and saw that aircraft were too vulnerable to bombardment, so I have doubled their hitpoints. This may mean that dogfights will take a while, but I don't know of any other way to balance things.

Sea units:
I noticed that the flanking ability did not work right, so I removed it from ships. They should bombard correctly now.

Trade:
I have reduced the rate that goods' values decrease when you discover more of them on the map. I also doubled the coefficient of distance for trade. This should make longer routes more profitable. If they are too profitable, let me know. This should stop the way that your trade routes lose value as you explore the map.

Gedrin's Refugee trigger is in the update.

Governments:
I have made several changes to the governments. I have decreased city limits, but I also decreased the penalty for exceeding those limits. Distance penalties have been raised, making roads more important.
I raised the max science setting by 5% for ancient govs, and 10% for modern and future govs. I also decreased the production coefficient for all govs by about 10%.
This will put more science into the game and take away some production. I think this will go a long way towards balancing the game, since people have consistently reported falling behind in science and having nothing to build at times.
Here is an excerpt from the Main readme which I wrote to explain my reasons for the city changes:

"Explanation: In all previous civ games, the key to winning has been expansion. If you could create a larger empire than your neighbors, you could then out-pace them in science and productivity. I have made changes to the governments with the aim of making this tactic much harder. Historically, the greater the empire, the faster it collapsed, and it is my aim to have the game reflect this tendency. If you want to conquer the world, you will have to wait until you have the most advanced governments, then strike fast to accomplish the feat before revolts thwart your ambition."

The mod, and therefore the game, keeps getting better. If there are some gameplay options, or unconventional attacks, that you want to use but don't for some reason, report them, along with the reason (e.g.: too expensive, the success rate is too low, etc.).

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 04-18-2001 09:44 PM Really though, what's the big problem with settlers moving through your nation?

If you can make settlers not to build their cities inside of my borders or just next to my borders then I would gladly allow them to wander through my nation.

If settlers do not build cities inside my borders I suggest everyone to give your map to that AI. Then he sees that there might be too long way to cross your country and he will send his settlers to other direction. I think this helped me once(???)

Could it be possible that when texts.zip does not fit into one floppy then you would make two smaller zips too for floppy copiers?

Only the milita prob ist even worse now. Normaly they first disappeart in the industria age... . Now they are gone in the medieval age and left my citys defenseless to my enemies arg .

And the city-limit is much to low. 10 city is close to nothing on a gigant map... . 15 was a much better value in my opinion.

Joseph, I don't know why you would still have the 117c pic in your files, but you need to delete it. The new pics have a corrected file in them.

The mod is being developed for play on regular-sized, or normal-sized, maps. Everyone needs to use this size for evaluating the beta. Once the public release is out, I will develop a version for huge maps.

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 04-20-2001 01:21 AM I had no idea that people would be getting updates on floppies when they had to get the large graphics zips to begin with.

I do not have internet connection from home because I live in quite small town(75 000 residents) and this f***ing little town can not offer me fast internet connection(yet but if I will wait a few months I suppose I will get DSL connection to home). And I do not like slow modems.

So I can only use my company's internet connection to get mod updates. I burned the first big files to cd and took them home that way but now I do not want to spend money to CD-R every time you have a new update so I am using floppies.

Jani

PS. Did my floppies work at home yesterday? NO! Damn f***ing floppies! I hate them, I hate them, I hate them!

Been a while since my last post but I'm busy with work so excuse me

But anyways, gonna try this new update tomorrow a whole day of medmod playing...wow has it been this long ?

I read a post a while back and it struck me......indeed there are a ****load of units which you just don't get.
Like arquebusier or somethin' they didn't show up on my build queue, is it a bug or are they just not yet in the game ?

The refugee bug adds a great deal of realism to the game I think, with all your armies racing through enemy territory is bound to spawn refugees which flee to the nearest city.
Excellent work on that one !

Now for a suggestion, could there not be a script which enable the capture of enemy units, like in WW2, the germans captured like 10000 russian tanks etc.
Could there be something like a one-in-100 possibility that a unit will be captured.
I don't quit see the good for such a trigger but its reality...and that is what we are goin' for ain't it ?

Maybe it's a stupid question to ask but...has anyone heard from locutus in the last two weeks ? Where's he at ?
Is that militia trigger working or not...I hear people which it did not work, I hear people that it did work.
Has there been any improvements to the trigger since two updates ago ?

the thing that bugs me the most is that I should have all these neat units and I can't build them ...... whoohoohoo

WES : BTW : When installing the newest update winzip gives me a message that a certain sprite/tga already exists and shall be overwritten...is this OK or what ?

Dale : Is the diplomod and the withdraw script and the aircraft refuelling thing final or are you still working on that one ?

WES : Could you use one more slic builder..namely me ? I'm working... YES STILL working on a script for pirates and I thought maybe you could use it in the medmod ? Let me know !

quote: Originally posted by Huysmans_666 on 04-20-2001 03:26 AM WES : Could you use one more slic builder..namely me ? I'm working... YES STILL working on a script for pirates and I thought maybe you could use it in the medmod ? Let me know !

Check my comment about present pirates from the older MedMod thread. I told there about pirates that are still there. And I suggested that there should be two kind of pirates, old ones and new ones. Read that post.

As for units, I would rather have a Trebuchet than a battering ram, but if you can send it to me or post it somewhere, I will be happy to take a look at it. None of the unit flags which Martin found in the exe that I have tested have worked. I have not tested the nullify or ignore city walls flags, but I did test the attack city bonus. I would have really liked to have had this one for mounted units.

I have not heard from Wouter either, so I don't know what he is doing.

The latest update replaces many of the old mod's pics, so hit "yes to all" when it asks if you want to replace them.