This is just bloody typical of capitalist bullcrap. No wonder human society is rotting in its own refuse when capitalist-pig companies (and governments) run the show. No support, no care, no ****! It's because of crap like this from companies/governments world-wide that the social revolution is gaining momentum in Australia. Vive le Revolution!

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

quote: Originally posted by facistpig on 01-21-2001 02:33 AM What no email or PBEM? I wish I never would have bought this game. I don't have time to sit around and play people in real time. I have to use email. I don't have a network. I have to use hotseat. I can't stand playing a against a stupid computer. Those of you that want a better AI, well that is impossible as there is no such thing as AI. A computer is just a machine that follows code. THAT IS IT! I love CTP1 except for some of the bugs and combat system, but nothing I can't live with. I hate CTP2. It should not have been named CTP2 because it is not the same game - similiar - but not the same. Too many changes. Damn, I wish all of the new stuff that is in CTP2 was in CTP1. Life sure does suck.

For what ever it is worth, there is supposedly a hidden menu (left ofver from CTP-1) where you can play under the Hot Seat opiton. The Hot Seat and PBEM options use similar coding and (I believe) can be found under the same menu area. Check on this site in various locations for more details, as I do not (and will never) own a copy of CTP2 and cannot verify this hidden option menu or it's valid operation.

Also, unfortunately, the people at Activison did say (way back in the beginning) that the Hot Seat/PBEM option was left out of the game (CTP2) due to programming issues (or other such B.S. that would have slowed oup it's release). Their tone has always indicted that they were never going to pursue a patch of any sort to include those options. This site is an excellent site for obtaining info on these types of games (both from the site managers and contributing forum members). If utilized and followed closely, you can learn a lot about each (and every) game of this type, and be able to purchase a game or games more wisely to suit your needs. Then you will not be taken to the 'cleaners' so badly. I am personnally 'pissed off' because I (and my family) played CTP1 in Hot Seat mode reguarly and enjoyed it. We anxiously awaited CTP2's arrival, only to be TOTALLY disappointed when they left out the Hot Seat option (information I found on this site). Therefor... I never bought the game (saving $50) and will never buy the game (unless some wiz-bang programmer takes it upon him/herself to integrate a thoughly 'bug free' addition of the Hot Seat option (and the game price drop by about $30). Remember...anything that is modified by others outside Activison, will not be supported buy Activision in any way, including damage to your software, systems and/or hardware. The 'modifier folks' will also not thoughly support their deals either, though they may make efforts to improve each mod. Without the actual game codesx, the 'modifier folks' (like this guy Wes) have a very, very dificult task in making 'bug free' mod and/or patches to add any options such as Hot Seat or PBEM.

My first impressions of CTP2 were positive but after reading various posts I have realized:
1) CTP2 isn't really a new game but more of an extended patch of CTP1. Charging full price for it is an outrage. Although since I didn't pay for CTP1 I can't personally complain about being swindled on that front.
2) Even though CTP2 isn't very innovative it is still not a finished product. Stopping support now is another outrage.

quote: Originally posted by jkadabomb on 01-20-2001 05:24 PM Alright Activision, I have been defending you from the start, but now I am totally pissed off after the work Ive seen other companies put into their games. 1. Look at valve. They fully supported HalfLife and spent many a month creating the free addon of Team Fortress Classic for it. In fact this was a very awsome mod. Along with that from the original halflife they added multiplayer support, and tons of customization ability. HalfLife has also been followed up with many patches and fixes. How long do you think it took them to create this? 2. Sierra created a free EXPANSION PACK for its great game of Ground Control. This aint no little scenario folkes. These are only too examples but you can also look at plenty of other games.

Only one short and simple question:
How many patches has Microprose released for Civ2?

I think it was more than 10. And they didn't give it up...

quote: We have been reviewing the posts by various forum members calling for additional patches to make the AI more challenging for them (...) These requests, which sound simple, are actually long, complex feature additions that would require up to 3-4 months of programming and testing time.

Let's wait for Civ3.
ucel

*All* software has bugs... some serious, some minor, but bugs nonetheless. It is the way companies deal with these bugs that determines the longevity of the company (despite a certain company from Redmond apparently bucking that trend).

Unfortunately, many companies (and most games developers) cannot afford to provide after-care for their products. Setting the authorities onto this sort of thing would open the flood-gates, and may result in fewer titles at higher prices... and niche products such as those in the turn-based strategy games category may disappear entirely... there is much more money to be made of shoot/beat/race-em-ups.

So we have to hope that Firaxis/Hasbro take the moral highground on this one, patch any bugs (and there *will* be bugs) and provide the degree of openness that Activision have done (up to now).

P.S. If Activision is dropping the product entirely, why not throw the source code into the public domain... I'm sure there won't be much earth-shatteringly groundbreaking in the code anyway

In my cynical view, the publishers are cutting their development costs by releasing incomplete products, and then refusing to budget an adequate amount of time and money to actually finish them properly.

well those days are long gone now. i will NEVER buy another Activision game again. Activision needs to be humbled and disgraced before the industry. let them serve as an example to the others.

And for any EXECs that may read this........

There is a profit to be made by customer service.
Companies that don't provide it disappear. And I hope Activision does too.

It's been over a year since CIVII MP was released. There were some initial problems and enough of them were resolved quite quickly. And the game was always playable. And guess what, the game is still selling. And people are waiting to pay $$$$ for CIVIII.

So live and learn or go bankrupt. You can all guess which I would prefer.

oh well at least Elite Force is quite

quote: Originally posted by Martock on 01-22-2001 09:39 AM out of curiousity, anyone know a lawyer for a class action against Activison? maybe we can get our money back or at least spook that worthless company. (i wish that big grin was in fact an evil grin!)

Most attorneys will provide a free consultation session. It can't hurt for a dissatisfied buyer to approach a lawyer and discuss the possibility of a lawsuit. It is entirely possible that a lawsuit is not feasible for one reason or another, but, then again, it may be feasible. I haven't bought the game yet (I was waiting for Wes' mod, but now I'll wait 'til the prices drop really low and get it from the bargain bin or eBay) so I can't initiate a suit, but one of YOU can, and I recommend you do. I'm as tired of this bulls**t as anyone, though I'm not $50 poorer because of it. But we irate gameplayers must give voice to our grievances, through legal and economic channels when appropriate.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 01-21-2001 09:12 PM from CGO [QUOTE]Front Office Football Central is reporting that EA Sports has no plans to issue a patch for its NFL GM sim, Front Office Football 2001. Despite claims from users that own Voodoo based video cards that the game is unplayable due to instabilty problems, the company issued a statement that the it could find no technical problems that were in need of a patch. An EA representative also stated that the company simply had no additional funds to continue to support Front Office Football 2001.

Mark, as one who is quite involved at FOF Central and here at Apolyton, I can say that there are alternatives. I never had any interest in CtP or CtP2 (fortunately), but even if I had, there's always Civ2; just like there's always FOF 2000 instead of FOF 2001.

Nevertheless look at Starcraft. They are releasing patch 1.8 in the next couple of days. A game that is about 2 years old (correct me if I am wrong).
Or Half-Life where there is still support and all and in fact Half-Life (or its modification counter-strike) is the most played ego-shooter on the net!!! And Half-Life is another 2 years old!

Just some examples of how you can enlarge your community by providing continous support. But well companies dont get money when fans play their game.
If you would have to pay $5 for every month that you play Ctp2 I guess there would be LOTS more support for it!!!

guys, get real.

I am always a big sucker on civ game but after CTP1, I have decided to be less impulsive when buying an Activision game. One thing that puzzle me most is Activision's attitude in thinking that they can put out a dodgy game, full of bugs, has a not very smart AI and half the features as promised and just let the general gaming public to create their own mods and patches. This is like people selling Stereo TV which only makes Mono sound and then tell their customers that they have to solder a few more chips onto the TV to make it sounds in Stereo.

I understand that it is fun to be able to modify the game, but that should be done out of curiosity or as a hobby and not as a neccessity in order to make the game works. There are many gamers out there like me who don't have the time nor the patience to search for ways to fix a product which is supposed to do what it says it can do and cost me 99 hard earn Aussie dollars.

Lucky I have hold out this time and save myself a bit of money and frustration. And like many others, I will not buy another Activision games again. I now hope that Civ III will come soon and be as enjoyable as Civ II.

Cheers,

But after repeatedly reading on Apolyton about what appears to be even worse instability problems than those in CTP1, I decided not to buy it until the next patch, which I was sure would soon be released to fix these problems.

I know nothing about programming, but how hard is it to write stable network code for a game such as CTP2? Look at all the games that get it right such as Warcraft AOK, 7 Kingdoms, C&C, HOMM, etc etc. Beats me, but I cant see how the demands of CTP are any harder to deal with.

Now that Activision are moving on to their next great game, I doubt if I shall buy CTP2, no matter how much the price is reduced in EB.

Disappointing.

So, farewell then to Mr Ogre and all his gang. I hope that someone in Activision learns from this, but probably not.And neither will we, as we rush out to buy the next hyped game.

Jim

(Markos, I guess you can close the CTP2 multiplyer forum now? )

roalan - What is the game "BOTF" by Hasbro? I've never heard of it. The main games I pay by Hasbro are CIVII and RISK.

quote: Originally posted by marster on 01-21-2001 01:55 AM Tell activision what you think. http://www.activision.com/support/email.asp -mario

This could be a good idea. I already sent an email using this hyper-link. I first received the 'automated response', then an actual response. Your emails WILL be read and responded to IF you are courteous and professional. I suggest stating 'postivies' you find or hoped to find in the game. Then state the negatives in a 'positive way' (ie don't '*****' at them or tell them how bad they SUCK in your opinion). Close your email with a 'positive note and state that you are anxiously hoping for a response. Your email, by itself, may not get them back in the
game' of fixing/patching/upgrading the CTP2 game, but emails in mass will or can help. You are not mailing to the BS programers at the support email address (ie those programmers who only came up with excuses). An email or two to these support sites often will be read and passed on with little out come towards change. But, 100's (or 1000's) can make a difference (providing it is not from the same person/email address). They are a company trying to make money. If they are flooded with emails that are similary related, they are bound to take notice. Their financial 'livelyhood' could be at stake.

Things that people on this site want or wanted:

1. Better AI intelligence
2. Bugs fixed (there were/are many {it appears})
3. Hot Seat/ PBEM
4. Multiplayer fixes
5. Others

I recommend that we all team up together. You may not (personnally) have an ineterest in Hot Seat/PBEM or AI intelligence, but stull should voice your request for those additions/improvements. As a team, we can (no guarentees) make a difference. If each of us, on the other hand, only gripes for his/her own deal, we will surely lose all chance. Also, try to make suggestions on how they could get some items in the game. I'm not talking about being a programmer. As an example, I stated to them how they had Hot Seat/PBEM in CTP-1 (it seemed to work OK). In CTP-2, because of the (supposed) improved diplomacy with AI players, these options could not be dealt with. I suggested that they might try a patch that by-passes the 'new' AI diplomacy stuff whenever players chose Hot Seat/PBEM modes, as we are not utilizing AI's (as much) but rather human opponets. This could fix the multiplayer problems too (although I'm not sure of all of them as I do not currently own the game).

quote: Front Office Football Central is reporting that EA Sports has no plans to issue a patch for its NFL GM sim, Front Office Football 2001. Despite claims from users that own Voodoo based video cards that the game is unplayable due to instabilty problems, the company issued a statement that the it could find no technical problems that were in need of a patch. An EA representative also stated that the company simply had no additional funds to continue to support Front Office Football 2001.

Steve, interestingly, the FOF caught our eye and not the CtP .

It sometimes helps to act out