1. Big List of Civilizations.

1. Ghana/Mali/Songhai (sub-Saharan civilizations), probably Mali.
a. Sundjata (male, warlike, expansionist); Musa (male peaceful, perfectionist-technologist, religious); Soumauro Kante (male, very warlike); Sogolon (female, peaceful); Sassouma Berete (female, warlike).

2. Japanese:
a. Tokugawa; Hirohito; Hideyoshi (warlike expansionist); Oda Nobunaga (warlike expansionist); Ko Sanjo (female, perfectionist); Tomoe Gozen (female, warlike, perfectionist)
b. Samurai.

3. English:
a. William the Conquerer; Elizabeth I; Winston Churchill; Bernard Montgomery; Tony Blair;
b. Longbowmen.

4. Greeks:
a. Plato; Alexander the Great; Basileios II; Pericles; Constantus

5. Americans:
a. George Washington; Abraham Lincoln; FDR; Adams; Jefferson; Nathaniel Greene; Madison; Grant; Johnson; Name That President

6. Babylonians:
a. Sargon; Hammurabi; Nebukadnezzar

7. Chinese:
a. Ying Cheng(Shi Huang Di); Li Shimin (Tang Tai Zung); Mao Tsetung; Shi Huangdi; Tang Tai Zung; Deng Xioping; Jiang Zemin

8. Egyptians:
a. Ramses II; Saladin; Nasser; Sadat

9. French (Franks):
a. Charlemagne; Louis XIV; Napoleon; Mitterand; Chirac; Charles de Gaulle

10. Germans (Teutons):
a. Frederik Barbarossa; Frederik the Great; Adolf Hitler; Attila; Helmut Kohl;

11. Persians:
a. Darius I; Ayatollah Khomeini; Shapur; Cyrus

12. Romans:
a. Romulus; Octavian; Constantine; Mussolini; Scipio

13. Russians:
a. Ivan the Grozny; Peter the Great; Vladimir Lenin; Stalin

14. Turks:
a. Mehmed II; Kemal Ataturk

15. Shona:
a. Robert Mugabe

16. Ndebele:
a. Mzilikazi; Lobengula

17. Masai

18. Swahili:
a. Tippoo Tib

2. Civilizations And Stuff

1. Leaders:
Each civilization is given a choice of five or so leaders which are selected at the beginning of the game, and may or may not change. These leader choices might affect such things as…
Unit offense, defense, hit points, firepower, and movement rating;
Effectiveness of administration (some leaders are more prone to corruption, some leaders are predisposed towards a certain government style);
Effectiveness of leadership (if the leader is a famous general);
Predisposition towards certain types of research, taxation;

2. Minor Civs:
These are, well, minor civs. Like small civs. Why aren’t they large civs, you ask? Because they’re small, ya moron. These would come about from things like a revolution (like, the French Empire splits into the French Empire and the Flench Empire, with the Flench Empire acting as a splinter civilization), from barbarians conquering a city (or founding their own), or from exploring and discovering fifty unique civilizations per square mile. Clearly the latter can become tedious if overdone.

3. Neutral Civs:
These are peaceloving civilizations (the Swiss, or the Greenlanders), who pretty much only engage in trade. There would be diplomatic penalties involved with invading these fellas.

4. Big List O Minor Civs:
Guti, Kassites, Amories, Cimmerians, Ligurians, Hurrians, Thracians, Illyrians, Phrygians, Sakae, Scythians, Nubians, Sarmatians, Numidians, Bactrians, Parthians, Yue-Chi, Hsung-Nu, Alans, Roxoloni, Surens, Kushans, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Gepids, Marcomanni, Franks, Burgundians, Bayoroi, Alemanni, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Avars, Bulgars, Khazaks, Patzinals, Magyars, Ghuzz, Seljuks, Cumans, Sarbadars, Uzbeks, Circassians.

5. Schisms:
So let’s say that a Civ had a civil war. Would the French split into the French and the Flench necessarily? Preferably they would split into the French and the Spanish, something more historically accurate and feasible. Here’s a big list of civilizations that are related to each other-if one has a civil war and the other didn’t exist at the start of the game, then the other gets created.
Aztecs-Teotihuacans-Olmec
Inca-Tiahuacanos-Moche
English-Americans-Canadians
Russians-Polish-Mongols
Greeks-Romans-Minoans
Egyptians-Assyrians-Babylonians
French-German-Spanish
Sioux-Iroqoius-Navaho
Chinese-Japanese-Korean
Indians-Siamese-Khmer

2. leaders

3. own units.

1.
Europe:
In "North Countries"
Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and Vikings. Rich and Historilly.
Center Europe
German, Poland and Swiss maybe Stech and Slovenia. Why?

East Europe
Russia, Turks, Greeks;. Romania & Bulgary ?

Ex Jugoslavia
Serbia, Monterecno, Macerep, Bosnia?

Brittain´s
English, Scotts, Wales, Irelands?

West Europe
Italy, Spanish, Portugal Holland& Belgia", Katalonia?

Ancinent Times
Greete,Macen, Mycenen, Athena, Sparta, Rome, Etrusk, Huns, Kimbris.

Afrikka

Today

Egypt, Tunis, Algeria, Soutafrikka.

Ancinent.

Zulus, Cartachos, Great Zimbawe.

Aasian

Today

Chinese, Japan, Indian, Koreas, Mongols.

Americans

Today

USA, Canada,Mexico,Braxily.

Ancinent

Aztecks, Incas, Sioux, Maya, Cherorkees, Carawak.

58.

2. i not know what isnt know there?

When we take a look at the Civ2 rules, there were 3 factors that determined a civ: attack, expand and civilize. There were 3 values for each, ranging from +1 to –1. Well, I would create a –2 value for attack and expand. Every minor civ would have those.

-2 for attack would mean they are very pacifist and will never start a war on their own with a major civ. They will always try to sign peace treaties. Also, if possible, they will exchange techs etc.
They will also ally with one major civ and have a tendency to take over his SE settings.

Trading with a minor civ would be more profitable than trading with a major civ. And, I don’t know if this is included in the Economy or Diplomacy summary, but I would like that you have a commerce bonus when the civ you’re trading with has similar SE settings. So it would be very profitable to have some minor allies in your ‘sphere of influence’.

This could also create cold war conditions where one major civ tries to persuade a minor civ to become his ally and desolve the alliance with another civ.
A minor civ would be able to declare war to another minor civ. This could create again cold war situations where one major civ backs up his minor civ ally whilst the other minor civ is also protected/backed up.

-2 for expand would mean that they can at any time only found/possess maximum three cities.

Minor civs shouldn’t be able to build wonders, except perhaps those with a one-city-only or one-time-only effect like the Colossus or Darwin’s Voyage.

Has anyone got other ideas?

First, get rid of barbarians. After all, aren't barbarians actually small civs. If you increase the number of civs in the game based upon the amount of land, you can have a whole bunch of civs out there, small and large. Eventually, the smaller, weaker ones will be dominated by stronger ones. Just as in the real world, civs that are more secluded than others will tend to be less advanced.

Also, in later stages of the game, you can add to the small civ number by splintering off civs that have large amounts of unhappiness for reasons such as civil war and such. This would force players to focus a bit more on population happiness.

While no special abilities should be fixed to civilizations, how about giving them one preferred Soc. Eng setting they will strive for, just like in SMAC, and make them angry to people who have different Soc. Eng setting in that category. For instance, if Greeks strive for Knowledge, they would shun Americans who only want Wealth. I doubt this even would be rasistic, as all examples can be clearly based on history: For instance, Zulus were nation that lived off war (It was their mean of getting cattle) and had huge, well trained standing army. Therefore, logically Zulus would have Power in their values settings.

My other proposal deals with Civ breakups. In rules.txt, there should be specified several nations that could be the independence-wanting parts of breaking-up empire. Here are some:

Americans: Confederates - Texans - Californians
Germans: Prussians - Austrians - Swiss
English: Canadians - Australians - South Africans
Celts: Irish - Scots - Welsh
Russians: Ukrainians - Poles - Finns
Vikings: Swedes - Norwegians - Danes
Romans: Palmyrans - Byzantine - Bosporans?

Can't we all give up now and go home? No one bothers posting anymore, and frankly I am tired to check this site every day
But I feel drawned here...

Maybe I can brain-wash Sid to make him accept all my silly diplomatic ideas...

Oh don't mind me... too much apolyton made me a bit willy...

How, exactly, were the Visigoths or the Vandals and so on "Civilizations"? - Answer: They weren't, they were merely invidual tribes in the greater "Teutonic tribal" whole, which could have counted as civilization of its own. The accurate historical definition of civilization is not too useful , I feel(otherwise we have too debate things like the relationship between the Romans and the Etruscans and so on). Real, honest-to-God, built from the bottom up civilizations are ones like:

China, Rome, Hellas (Greece), the various Celtic Civilizations (from Spain to Britain), Egypt, Other African civilizations (there are quite a few), Native American, Australian Aboriginal, The Teutonic civilisation(s) (from the Saxons and Vandals to the Vikings),
arguably the Japanese (they arrived as invaders a very long time ago, but so did most civs, so we can basically ignore that), several near-eastern civs, basically starting with the Sumerians and Babylonians and so on, the nomadic eurasian civs like the Huns and the Mongolians, and various island people of the pacific. Most of these groups of Civs should really count as single ones for playing purposes.

Colonies like the USA, or Turkey and so on really should not count as Civs in their own right (actually Turkey could, as it did have several civilizations, many of them quite interesting, but was colonised by the Greeks and then various other people, but it should NOT be called Turkey in the game, as there was no single "Turkish" civ. Turkey is a later political construct. The USA even more so. It is an example of the European civilization taking over another low-population civilization, not a Civ in its own right at all.

I would stay AWAY from using real leaders and limiting players to existing civs as well as classifying certain civs AUTOMATICALLY as minor. They may have been minor in our world, but might have been far more important in Civ III's randomly generated world. So the Romans dominated Europe for centuries... maybe they will be minor players this time, and, say, the Hellenes (Greeks) will fill their place, or whatever. One should remember that Alexander was not a Greek but a Macedonian and thus basically a memeber of a "minor" civilization and so on. Also avoid giving bonuses for specific leaders and or civs, as that smack of racial stereotyping, and that is just sooooooo 19th Century, not to mention bordering on the actually racist and insulting.

Do this instead: Give the player a huge selection of civs to choose from, as well as the opportunity to create his or her own (which in my case would be modelled on various real but obscure civs), and then give them a selection of bonuses and a couple of starting tech to choose from... They could have a total amount of points to spend or something, and say, get an extra settler or unit if they gave up a tech or whatever. That way, everyone would be happy, no-one could complain that they got "gipped" or worry about racism, and all would be good on the Earth =)

Seriously though, that IS the best way to do it.

Once Kilwa lost it's position as the controller of all Western Indian Ocean trade, Arabs took over, mostly from Zanzibar.

a) For scenarios and games have separate folders for civ1, civ2 (meaning players) and in each folder you could have a culture specific files (i.e. units.gif, cities.gif, flag.gif, leader.gif, people.gif, throne room.gif, people.gif, even a rules.txt with unit characteristiscs and advances tree). So each civilization instead of drawing from one file like civ2 does now it would read from the the specific folder for that civ (not to big of a technology leap) this would also work well with civilization specifc units, wonders, city improvements so they would all have unique graphics, names, abilities. The trick would be having the rules text jump and read properly from the other rules text.

b) I think since the wonders videoes and graphics take up so much memory if Firaxis would sell the games as a multi-disc set. by this i mean like some of the games like byzatine have more than one disc for all the info. Firaxis would have one disc with the game gine on it. The second disc would have several folders as a graphics and even a civilizations library. several folders labeled romans, byzatines, etc. so when you start a game if you pick your opponents you select a folder that is a name of a tribe for major civ 1 - 10 and then pick the ones for minor civs (or however minor, major works). Or have a random function that randomly looks for the folders (maybe have an identifyier folder like D:\civs that the game looks for to find tribes). This would make it so if there are major minor civs or start up civs it would randomly pick from the disc each time (so it'll be different and you can probably store over 100 civs). This disc could also be the copyright disc that the game will probably have or this disc will be inserted after the game begins i.e. insert disc2).

c) This two disc system would also make add on future disc for more and more civs to add to your game possible. This could be linked to future scenarios discs that have scenarios and specific civs (and wonders etc.) that you can play with or if you build your own can access that civ folder on the disc 3.

My idea is that th actual "civilization" system (we can see it in Ctp1 and Civ1/Civ2) is totally obsolete. Better than a "civilization" or "tribe" selection we must select a cultural-ethnic zone. For example, in the Spanish civilization we can build cities like Barcelona or Madrid, but these two cities have an historial background totally diferent. It's like germans can build Paris because a time this city was under their power during the 2nd WW.

I preffer that when a player has to select the starting name it appears a map of the cultural division based in the actually survivors (the ones that support the Test of Time ). In each map that we do can perform this like a normal thing. So, in a Middle-Earth map we can divide in Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Valar, etc... In the Earth will be:

Amerindian
Occidental
Desertians (Arabians, Israel, Egypt, Persia...)
Oriental (Altaïr, Siberia, China, Mongolia, Japan...)
Hindosiamese (India and Pacific Southeast)
African (under the Sahara zone)
Australian-Polynesian

Inside these groups (if we don't select the random cultural) we can found a second level of divison according with the cultural base, in Occidental we can found:

Celts
Nordics
Gauls
Slavics
Mediterranean
Uralians

And inside it (if we don't try a random option) we found the ethnic group with (if is possible) a list of names of nations that formed. Some of these etnics appears in other
cultural-base zones (like english) because they have conserved the base but they are too mixed.

Celts:
-Welsh (Wales)
-Scottish (Scotland)
-Irish (Eire,Man)
-Galic (Gallic,Portuguese,Brasilian)
-English
(England, United Kingdom, United States of America, Australia, South Africa, Canada)

Nordics:
-Teutons (Germany, Austria, Holland,Flemish,Belgium)
-Vikings (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, England)
-Alpinians (Tirol, Retic, Friuli, Austria)

Gauls:
-Oïl (France, Belgium, Valonians, Luxemburguesians, Quebec)
-Oc (Occitane, Catars, Provence)

Slavics:
-Baltics (Bielorussians, Russians, Lituans, Estonians, Letonians, Poland)
-Carpatians (Ukranians, Bulgarians, Paennonians, Rumans, Slovaquians)
-Meridionals (Albanians, Bosnians, Slovenians, Croatians, Serbians)

Mediterranean:
-Hellenic (Greeks, Macedonians, Cyprus, Minoics)
-Italics (Italians, Romans, Etruscs)
-Iberians (Castillians, Catalans, Spanish, Argentinians, Chilenians, Colombians, Cubans, Caribbeans)
-Isolated (Corsic, Sardinians)

Uralians:
-Caucasians (Georgians,Armenians)
-Scandinavians (Finnish, Carelians)
-Westerns (Magyar-Hungary, Chequian, Basquian-Euskaldun)

Wow, and these are "only" the occidentals!

Also, depending from the time when you start, the starting city will one or another.
For example, in Castillians (Occidental-> Meditarreans -> Iberians) the first city surely wull be Logroño, Burgos or Valladolid. Not Madrid (these turned in to the capital during the XV). The same for Teotihuacan->Tenochtitlán, Cusco->Quito, Trondheim-> Oslo, etc...

Also there is another important thing. Some countries (Mexico, India, Peru...) have an important inavison from another countries, but they MUST don't be included in the invaders group.