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Topic:   THE MANUAL/HELP FILES (ver1.0): Hosted by Travathian Format for Better Printing
Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 21, 1999 21:48   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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Here's your chance to voice your opinion on what you'd like to see as far as help files, the manual, and any sort of foldouts included with the game.

So far, the following has been recommended:

-an index for the manual
-a tech tree foldout
-reference cards
-tech tree viewer with the help files
-no instruction manual at all, just have it on disk (definitely up for debate)
-a research goal option (similar to Civ II)
-scripting explanations/help files (similar to Fantastic Worlds)
-brief historical bit on each civ in the instruction manual

[This message has been edited by Travathian (edited May 26, 1999).]

yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted May 21, 1999 21:54   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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Travathian,

Welcome aboard! This is one of my favorite topics. I'm one of those guys who actually likes to read the manual before I play (imagine that!). Here's an important one:

An INDEX!!!

I shall simply refer you to SMAC's manual to see what confusion a missing index can cause.

Also, Travatian, I forgot to mention: You'll need to keep track of all the names of people who post ideas in your threads. That's a vital part of the Lists that will be sent to Brian. Paperwork, I know!

------------------
CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 21, 1999 21:55   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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I'll start things off. I'd like to start off with the electronic help. I really like the three introductory help scenarios. Definitely would like to see these included, as well the walkthrus for things like the design workshop, city screen, etc which were incorporated into SMAC. I thought these were awsome for first time players, as well as us veterans who looked at SMAC and said 'what the heck did they do!' Since the interface had changed somewhat.
Bell
Warlord
East Corinth, ME, US
May 99
posted May 21, 1999 22:04   Click Here to See the Profile for BellClick Here to Email Bell  send a private message to Bell
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As I've mentioned in the technology thread, a good tech tree viewer is important. I think if it was integrated into the online help, and available whenever you need to pick a new tech to research, it would clear up a lot of confusion.

Also, I found the SMAC datalinks quite helpful, if a bit confusing at first.

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 21, 1999 23:54   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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How does everyone feel about a technology tree foldout? Or is it better to just have an electronic one?

Index cards (maybe 8x11 laminated) which show terrain improvements, SE choices, combat modifiers, breakdown of the civs bonuses/penalties?

evil conquerer
Chieftain
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
May 99
posted May 22, 1999 18:34   Click Here to See the Profile for evil conquererClick Here to Email evil conquerer  send a private message to evil conquererSend a Message to UIN: 33239690 Visit evil conquerer's Homepage!
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Yes, keep the tech tree! That is probably the single biggest timesaver in the whole game. Once I know the game well, I find the tech tree more useful than the manual itself. Of course, Firaxis shouldn't skimp on either (and they sure don't! :-)).

Index cards would be cool; I'm not sure how much I would use them because I haven't had any experience there. My first impression is that it would be too hard to find the specific card you're looking for in that big stack. Still, the concept is out there -- Maybe there's a way to pull it off.

Also, I'd like to second the motion for an index. That was the one flaw in an otherwise superb manual.

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 23, 1999 02:57   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of like 3 reference cards, each about 8x11 (the size of the box).

One would have terrain improvement breakdown, detailing the effects of each type of improvement on each type of land, as well as time frame; the back side could show combat modifiers, the various chasis, weapons and armor upgrades and unit special abilities.
The second card could list the various SE choices, since from reading some of the other posts, a lot of people want more options when it comes to this, so this card could show the combinations; on the back it could have the factions listed with a very brief bio on them (agression level, starting techs, goals, etc)

And a third which both sides would simply list all of the techs alphabetically, and the affects each one gives, similar to what pops up when you learn the tech (new city improvements, units, wonders, etc).

As far as the index for the manual, at this point I'd say there is no debate.

How does having a big foldout tech tree sound, possibly a map of Earth on the back? Or a seperate foldout for it, or no map?

Ralph
Settler
Stockholm - Sweden
b.02-15-99
posted May 23, 1999 17:27   Click Here to See the Profile for RalphClick Here to Email Ralph  send a private message to Ralph
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In addition to a big colourful tech-tree/units/terrain-tile poster – also add a cheap small A4-sized black/white version of the tech-tree itself, so the player can use that to make Xerox-copies.

I did some A4-sized Xerox-copies of the tech-tree in CIV-2, and then used a fluorescent pen to more easily keep track on my science-progress.

LordStone1
Emperor
Rochester, NY
b.02-15-99
posted May 23, 1999 18:06   Click Here to See the Profile for LordStone1Click Here to Email LordStone1  send a private message to LordStone1Send a Message to UIN: 11591748 Visit LordStone1's Homepage!
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I posted this in the "Other" thread but then I saw this....so here's my post...again!

I just want to say that the Civ III manual should be the same size as the CivII one, with nice and big-font words and easy to read, not like the encyclopedia-like with columns and size 8 font SMAC manual, nor the anorexic CTP forum. Lots of pictures, too!

NotLikeTea
Warlord
HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 99
posted May 23, 1999 22:36   Click Here to See the Profile for NotLikeTeaClick Here to Email NotLikeTea  send a private message to NotLikeTea Visit NotLikeTea's Homepage!
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I found that while the CIVII manual was bigger than the CIV manual, I disliked it more. Why?

The II manual was all techie, and boring. How to move a unit. How to change the production. However, the original manual was actually fun to read. It had little historical bits, which is a real necessity for a historical game. It gave context, and a sense of atmosphere to the game, more so than was present in the sequel.

I say bring back the enjoyable read while including the techie reference.

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 24, 1999 17:51   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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I'd have to say I disagree with this, I kind of liked having the explanation of how to do everything in the CIV II manual. But then again, with all of the various walkthru's and learning scenarios in SMAC, maybe less of the manual could be dedicated to this, if these were developed for CIV III.

What is everyones feeling as far as the learning scenarios in SMAC, the Explore, Build, Conquer ones. Also, the walkthru's of the various screens (city screen, design workshop screen, etc).

Should these be included in CIV III?

Any changes? More info, less info?

Anyone think Firaxis should just do away with the hardcopy, and put it all on the disk? Maybe put it in .pdf format so that its easily printable and viewable. I'm sure this could definitely cut down on costs, and installation instructions would be included inside the jewel case.

Blade Runner
Warlord
Belgium
b.02-15-99
posted May 24, 1999 18:13   Click Here to See the Profile for Blade RunnerClick Here to Email Blade Runner  send a private message to Blade Runner
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IMHO a tabbed notebook is better than 30 or 40 cards. Maybe the best is to get a little folder with a clip so you can change the order of the pages, but most likely nobody lost any of the cards (pages).
Mo
Warlord

Apr 99
posted May 24, 1999 19:49   Click Here to See the Profile for Mo   send a private message to Mo
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I dislike the idea of putting all out on disk. That is what the in game help like the datalinks from alpha centauri is for. I really liked the Civ II poster. The 8X11 card are a good idea but they should still include a poster of all the techs.
Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 25, 1999 03:11   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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How about interactive help files integrated into a website.

I remember Starcraft's help files had solutions built in, but also had built in links to their website if you needed more info.

Paul
King
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
posted May 25, 1999 04:57   Click Here to See the Profile for PaulClick Here to Email Paul  send a private message to PaulSend a Message to UIN: 83134477 Visit Paul's Homepage!
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There is one option from Civ2 that should come back: the research goal button. I really loved that: "I want to get Monarchy", "Then we should research Alphabet or Ceremonial Burial". With CTP and SMAC I always have to take that poster to see what I have to research next, so the goal button should come back.
Sieve Too
Prince
New Hampshire, USA
b.02-15-99
posted May 25, 1999 16:08   Click Here to See the Profile for Sieve TooClick Here to Email Sieve Too  send a private message to Sieve Too
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Definitely need a printed manual. That way I can learn the game without having to sit in front of the computer. Online help is nice but is not a substitute for a decent manual. Let's face it. It's much easier to thumb and skip through a printed manual than click through an online one. And until the day we all have 42 inch monitors, the help screen just overlaps and clutters up the game.
Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 25, 1999 18:00   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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Does anybody want historical information about the civs included in the manual like in Age of Empires? I kind of thought the info was interesting, but if the number of civs gets too high, it could be just a short blip about em.
DanS
King
Washington, D.C.
b.02-15-99
posted May 25, 1999 23:41   Click Here to See the Profile for DanSClick Here to Email DanS  send a private message to DanS Visit DanS's Homepage!
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INDEX -- Add my voice to yin26's call for an extensive index. The sad fact is that I hardly used the SMAC manual because it didn't have an index. I like the Civ II manual very much.

SCRIPTING/SCENARIO LANGUAGE -- This should be addressed, even if superficially and at the back of the manual. A broad overview plus a short synopsis of each parameter would be nice.

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 26, 1999 19:04   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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They did include all of the scripting/scenario language for CivII but only in expansion pack Fantastic Worlds.

Is this something everyone thinks should be included in a seperate manual? Wait until a CivIII expansion?

I'm inclined to say have it wait until an expansion, simply because most people wont use those tools or build their own scenarios, and thats space which could be used for other things.

DanS
King
Washington, D.C.
b.02-15-99
posted May 26, 1999 21:23   Click Here to See the Profile for DanSClick Here to Email DanS  send a private message to DanS Visit DanS's Homepage!
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Travathian: I would like a 350 page manual, so that's not a problem I see... Plenty of room.

[This message has been edited by DanS (edited May 26, 1999).]

Travathian
Warlord
AZ
May 99
posted May 27, 1999 17:22   Click Here to See the Profile for TravathianClick Here to Email Travathian  send a private message to Travathian Visit Travathian's Homepage!
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350 pages? Is the game gonna be on a mini disc or in a seperate package?
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted June 03, 1999 19:41   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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-=*MOVING THE THREAD UP*=-
Ecce Homo
Prince
Stockholm, Sweden
Apr 99
posted June 07, 1999 10:01   Click Here to See the Profile for Ecce HomoClick Here to Email Ecce Homo  send a private message to Ecce Homo Visit Ecce Homo's Homepage!
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One should be able to learn the game from scratch with an on-line tutorial in two parts. Part 1 should be for understanding the interface, part 2 should be just like playing on Chief level but with even more advice.
NotLikeTea
Warlord
HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 99
posted June 07, 1999 10:36   Click Here to See the Profile for NotLikeTeaClick Here to Email NotLikeTea  send a private message to NotLikeTea Visit NotLikeTea's Homepage!
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As to a tutorial, I'd like to see one that is integrated into the game.

This was attempted with the tutorial help messages, but I don't think this was done too well.. I'd like to see an ingame tutorial, with it's own scenario, designed for the tutorial. Click here, change this, modify that, not the more generic tutorial messages used now.

Sieve Too
Prince
New Hampshire, USA
b.02-15-99
posted June 08, 1999 10:00   Click Here to See the Profile for Sieve TooClick Here to Email Sieve Too  send a private message to Sieve Too
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Taking a cue from Microsoft (Oh no!!!!), how about "Question mark help"? You know, the little question mark button on the toolbar that changes your cursor to a pointer/question mark. Whatever you click on with this cursor pops up specific help for the item. Very useful for busy screens like the city window.
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted June 14, 1999 03:43   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-
Ecce Homo
Prince
Stockholm, Sweden
Apr 99
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Could the Civilopedia be compatible with MS Windows' help program?
NotLikeTea
Warlord
HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 99
posted June 15, 1999 16:52   Click Here to See the Profile for NotLikeTeaClick Here to Email NotLikeTea  send a private message to NotLikeTea Visit NotLikeTea's Homepage!
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Bah! I hope not.. I have a fervent dislike of MS help for this kind of thing.. the only thing worse is HTML help.

Note: If the game comes with HTML help, I'm going to return it.

On fire.

yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted June 16, 1999 05:27   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-
Kris Huysmans
Chieftain
Belgium
May 99
posted June 16, 1999 05:44   Click Here to See the Profile for Kris HuysmansClick Here to Email Kris Huysmans  send a private message to Kris Huysmans
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Scenario creation must be also included in the manual:
1)A description of rules.txt
2)How to change graphics
3)Tips to make balanced scenarios without errors


Kris Huysmans
Chieftain
Belgium
May 99
posted June 16, 1999 12:27   Click Here to See the Profile for Kris HuysmansClick Here to Email Kris Huysmans  send a private message to Kris Huysmans
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Suggestion:
Set the text of the datalinks on mp3 !
So that when you open a specefic topic you not only see a text but also will hear a text:

Use a voice like Churchil for the units.
Use a voice like Einstein for the discoveries.
...

Kris Huysmans
Chieftain
Belgium
May 99
posted June 16, 1999 12:30   Click Here to See the Profile for Kris HuysmansClick Here to Email Kris Huysmans  send a private message to Kris Huysmans
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sugestion:

Use a personage for the tutorial that speaks. This is more funny then a text.

yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
posted June 17, 1999 21:23   Click Here to See the Profile for yin26Click Here to Email yin26  send a private message to yin26
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-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-
EnochF
Prince
Seattle, WA
b.02-15-99
posted July 02, 1999 12:08   Click Here to See the Profile for EnochFClick Here to Email EnochF  send a private message to EnochF
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-=#BUMP#=-

(Just to keep all the real suggestion threads on the first page)

Knight_Errant
Warlord
Clovis, NM USA
Apr 99
posted July 02, 1999 22:33   Click Here to See the Profile for Knight_ErrantClick Here to Email Knight_Errant  send a private message to Knight_ErrantSend a Message to UIN: 15335980
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This might go just as well in the wacked out thread.

I would like to see the manual contain a little about where one might find interesting things about civilization history. Maybe a page in the back that says:

If you like this game, you might be interested in these books about history:

/ short bibliography /

Chowlett
Prince
of Persia, of Peace, of Theives, and of Cambridge
May 99
posted July 04, 1999 14:19   Click Here to See the Profile for ChowlettClick Here to Email Chowlett  send a private message to Chowlett
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I REALLY want to see a tech-tree hard copy. Preferably, not only in the big colour poster style of SMAC, but also in the long thin card style of CIV 1. I found it really, and I mean REALLY useful to sit it along the tops of my keys and see where everything headed. I realise that this may not be possible for a more complicted tech-tree, but they should still try. As for quick reference 8x11's, great idea.
Theben
Emperor
Indianapolis, #1 in Syph cases!
b.02-15-99
posted August 10, 1999 01:51   Click Here to See the Profile for ThebenClick Here to Email Theben  send a private message to Theben
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I believe this is the last *BUMP*. Yeesh!
paiktis22
Settler
Athens Greece
Oct 2000
posted November 05, 2000 18:59   Click Here to See the Profile for paiktis22Click Here to Email paiktis22  send a private message to paiktis22
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I believe that everything should be on the manual. EVERYTHING.
Including for example the precise function of each wonder, the description of each unit, each city improvement etc etc.

I realize that may be a somewhat... thick manual but I think that when the player is in front of the game she/he should devote the whole of his/hers attention playing not trying to find out what the manual didn't include. (for example what does the republic do in terms of economy and so on).
And having a complete manual of CIV to read at your leasure is a really a welcomed luxury

Also there has to be clarity and easy of use in the manual. Sections and subsections for everything much be clearly categorized. CIV 2 manual is really mediocre. A nice example would be the Alpha Centauri manual.

That is my humble opinion

Christos

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