I wanted to throw out the question to everyone what General character our interfaces should have?

Some players want numbers in the interface, others actively don't. I think we have to try to satisfy who we can while still keeping the game thematically whole. How we keep the numbers people and the no-numbers people happy with the same interface is one of our many challenges. I don't have any really great ideas at the moment, other than giving players choices on how detailed the info they get should be, and how often they want to get that information.

The good AI we are striving for in Clash will also allow for much better 'advisors' than are genre-standard, which should help us out some.

Those are my thoughts on the general issues. Ideas? What games do you consider to have good GUIs and why?

One other thing we Really need is a central control panel for the civ. The main interface with the map will show a lot of good stuff. I don't think we can fit something versatile enough into the pane with the main map. What I have in mind is something that shows in one screen things like:
overall income and expenditures (and allow you to up tax rate...)
internal political status (Upper Class happy, peasants on the verge of revolt...)
army size (mobilized / demobilized / mercenary)
economic status (growth rate shown in icons)
technological status
diplomatic state (w/ most important neighbors and is relation getting better or worse)
type of culture and any directions its moving

Everything should have easy iconographic representations and optional numbers.

Note: I think the best way to show things like military, technological and econ strength is Relative to the competition.

I'm currently handling the following areas and their interfaces:

1. Army Assembly/ Combat Info
2. Economy / Trade / Merchants
3. Diplomacy

Any thoughts on these would be welcome, Although if its a big post maybe starting a new thread would be appropriate.

If anyone wants to take on short-term design/organizational responsibility for any of these areas let me know. This is especially true of 1 and 3 since I think I'm probably the only one who really understands the econ system. (Druid2, have you checked out things enough to know what you'd be interested in yet?)

I will try to have something out on these by the 5/30/99 deadline described in the * Proposed Process... * thread.

-Mark

Other than that, I don't care.

I'm not very experienced with using graphics, esp. with importing and filtering images, and manipulating them on the screen to build a map. I had hoped to avoid that kind of interface, but if it's what everyone else wants I'll try and help as best I can.

I am working on a GUI interface which draws in Java pixel by pixel, for my other game. If anything from that looks good, ya'll are welcome to it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I had something like your post in mind. Check out people.mw.mediaone.net/markeverson/econ_dev.htm#Interface for an example of where I think we should be heading. If we can do the equivalent of bars, but using iconographic symbols instead, I think we won't be in too bad shape.

-Mark

Numbers must be available to the player however they should not cloud the view. I think that those little text popups are the best way to go. If your mouse lingers over something for a half second a small (one to two inches long) piece of text should come up. For example is you click on a barracks (selecting it) you will notice that the "action" window (and the other windows as well) changes to show what the barracks can do. Say you just have the barracks made and you don't have an academy. You will notice four buttons, one for each type of infantry unit. The marine button will be yellowish with a black picture of the marine. If you move your mouse to it and click a marine will start being trained and lights in the barracks will start flashing (indicating that something is going on in the barracks). If instead of immmediately hitting the button to make a marine you wait a bit something like the following will pop up: Train Marine 50@ 1& (@ = symobol for minerals, & = symbol for supply). Additionally the "M" in "Marine" will be highlighted because it is the hotkey for Marines (hitting m while the barracks selected is faster than moving your mouse across the screen and clicking). The buttons and pop up text are great for learning the values when you first start playing. They teach you the costs for everything as well as the hotkeys which are essential to progress beyond newbiehood.

The buttons for all the other units in the barracks are greyed out. If you highlight them they tell you what tech structures you need to build before you get access to the unit. So if you hold you mouse over the medic instead of showing you the resource cost it tells you that you need the acedemy to train medics.

Ideally the mouse and keyboard should be equally important to the interface (at least at higher levels of proficiency) this allows The player to optimize his manual resources. If the mouse is the only input device the player's left hand (or right hand) is being wasted, likewise a keyboard only interface wastes the right hand. People want to be able to do things as fast as they can think them up. Ideally your mind should hold you back, not the interface. Even though Clash is turn based people will not tolerate a slow interface. By slow I am referring not only to performance (Alpha Centuari runs slow on every computer) but usability. Sure command line interfaces are theoretically faster but the mental overhead required to use them takes away from your thinking.

A good interface:

is mostly mouse based for the beginners

teaches the player how to use the interface better

uses the mouse and keyboard equally at advanced levels

is similar to other interfaces

One thing that I wanted to mention is that those right click menues in Alpha Centauri are very good and are one of the reasons that I bought the game.

So the ideal interface would combine Starcraft, Alpha Centauri and Romance of the Three Kingdoms II (can be gotten for genesis or snes emulators)

www.frognet.net/~eskie/interfacedraft.html

Just some notes, this is a very rough draft just to show you what I have in mind for the main screen.

Small map window gives: (right click and pop up menu)
1 (default) overview of known map (ala prev versions of civ)
2. Pop overlay
3. Resource overlay
4. Mil overlay
Etc.
Overlays are color coded, your choice of how, for density/type

Icon and Bar view: (need input on icons and colors to use)
1. Icons are color coded to show overall status, size and color indicates level.
2. Bars are color coded same as icons to show relative strength compared to KNOWN civs.
are grayed out until first civ is met thereafter show your value compared to average of known civs values.
3. If cursor is on icon for 2+ seconds than actual numeric value pops up in sub window.
4. Right mouse click in icon advances to new screen giving detailed info for this value.
5. AUTO button: lets user turn control of this item over to AI if user doesn't want to manage,
is grayed out when in manual control.

Notes on Advisor box:
1. Is text field with advice from selected advisor.
2. Current advisor is changed by right click and pop up menu.

If you like this I need some input on specifics for the various icons and colors that you would like.

Thanks
Rebel

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 06, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 07, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 07, 1999).]

Thanks for working on this. Too bad your image didn't come thru. The easiest thing is to get a free web page somewhere and post it. Then all you have to do is use HTML to put a link to that page in your post.

I like what I see in the text, but its of course too sketchy to say for sure. Have you searched the old threads to see what's available on the interface? Dominique did a crude presentation that we discussed. Its somewhere back there.

Need to know how to reach Joe Falaschi (sp)?
Rebel

I'm sorry, I'm here but I've become very busy this week and next. Things will lighten up after that.

My email is (work) jfalasch@csc.com or (home) barefoot@eden.com.

Work is probably better, I'm not checking my home email as much as I'd like right now.

As said earlier, the main map should clearly dominate the screen. Nevertheless, some little "bells and whistles" make the screen simply nicer to look at - have a look at how some little figurines reach into the map area in Civ:CtP to know what I mean. Ideally, a mask would be used so the interface can be a bit more fancy (as little rectangularity as possible).

I agree that colored bars (e.g. green-yellow-red) are easy to read - but, often, they aren't nice to look at. We should try to have some creativity here (even the little coins and wheat stalks in CIV1 wre more creative). Icons and power graphs should have a look that relates to their functions. E.g. I always felt that measuring "combat experience" is done best by putting an increasing number of stars (or even medals) next to a unit's icon.

Frankly, I abhor the use of real numbers in any way. From my point of view, the most ingenious feature in CIV was that you never had to know ANY number. Never. The art in making in interface is to give the player the correct feeling without burdening him with numbers. Think about that: The more precise numbers are, the more the urge to "max out" arises. As we all know from countless hours of gaming, "maxing out" means micro-managing every least bit... and in the end, kills the fun.

Another aspect: The art of ruling lies NOT in knowing the exact numbers, but in knowing the way to go.

I could imagine many ways of expressing different values, amongst them: tachometer- or thermometer-like displays, flags in diferent heights, more or less happy faces, gems of different levels of brightness (as e.g in Ascendancy for science output)... but we should try to avoid the "easy" way, meaning almost always the "boring way".

Not much of an artist (can't you tell) but will allow space for an overlay mask that hopefully would reflect nature of civ on the outer border of the display. The goal I was going for with the main map area was to provide for only complete squares, since to this point (as far as I know) mark is still planning on using square tiles. This may change if he decides to go with the suggestion of using a pixel based system.

I agree that the color bars i used clashed badly, what I would really like to do is to shade the bar from one end to the other (dark to light?) especially on the lower bar, fe comparing your civs cash flow to other known civs we might go from a dark golden brown to a bright gold. Problem being I have no idea how that would be coded.

As far as I am concerned the fewer numbers that the player has to see on the main screen the better off we will be. The main interface should be as intuitive as we can possibly make it, numbers are counter to this. All that we really need are relative values, if more information is needed it shoild be on the back screens.

Really appreciate your input and do my best to get a better sample on line soon.

I had no intention of critisizing your excellent work - we still are far, far away from doing artwork, so I took your draft as what it is - a draft.

I only try and use every opportunity to hammer some creativity into you hardcore thinkers' and coders' head once in a while

E.g. I prefer the picture of a waxing / waning moon over a color bar if it is to depict the religious level etc.

Sorry for the tone of my message, didn't mean to imply that I thought you were criticizing, it's just that the fingers can't keep up with the mind so sometimes I seem abrupt. Just a suggestion, plan on using a VERY big hammer, the skull can be just a little thick sometimes,when I get an idea in my head. Btw, I spent three years in the Kaiseslautern area in the early 80's and enjoyed it immensely.

Am not a coder yet, just started to try and learn JAVA last week, (this project will get me to do that much if nothing else) But from what i've seen so far the moons should be doable.

Still need more input on what items to include on main screen and the icons to use with them.

Thanks,
Rebel

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 08, 1999).]

As I mentioned earlier, I did some hobby programming years before, and back then I did... strategy games

One thing I learned then is: No use to even try to fix the interface details that early in the planning process. Believe me: Some of the best ideas will come while our coders are hacking in the stuff - and then it will be time to trow all interface concepts overboard, because we simply need some more space for this and that on the screen.

One thing we abolutely have to keep in mind is the flexibility of the screen layout - when the game will be ready, screen sizes of 1280 x 960 won't be unusual, while 800 x 600 will be used by many, still. So we need an idea of which elements are definitely necessary and which are optional and shown only in larger screen versions.